got scammed on ebay

[milkman12345]

This happened a while ago now, but I'm still wondering what I should have done at the time.

I bought 2 "Genuine" Wii remote and nunchuck combos for $35 each off an eBay seller with a feedback score of 1. I had assumed he was trying to start up a store and was selling stuff cheap to get his feedback nice and high. They arrived a few weeks later without a tracking number, very late considering his state borders mine. I suspected they were a fake after I opened them because the "Nintendo" logo was nowhere to be found. A few online guides I looked up agreed with my suspicions and also pointed out the very bright LED's and blue tinge on the remote jacket.

I was pretty pissed off about it and gave the guy 2 negative feedbacks and opened 2 PayPal disputes without contacting him first. Later that night He sent me a message saying the items are genuine even though they are not Nintendo branded. He offered me a refund if I posted the items back to him. I declined because he refused to pay the return postage. I then escalated the PayPal dispute into a claim. PayPal sent me an email about a week later saying I need to provide evidence for my case and fax it to them by a given date.

1. Obtain a document from an unbiased third-party, such as a dealer,
appraiser, or an organization that is qualified in the area of the item in
question (other than you). This document should contain the following:
• Detailed description as to why the item is not authentic (i.e., how the
item differs from an authentic item, how the person evaluating the item
determined that it is not authentic, etc.).
• If possible, the document should include a serial number and must be on
letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of the
authenticating party so that we can contact them directly, if necessary.

I went to my local GAME store and they gave me a statement by email which said something along the lines of "We have inspected the items and unfortunately they are unofficial. Hopefully this is enough for your claim." It had the store name written on it along with the name of the guy who checked the goods. I made a screenshot of the email and uploaded it to both the PayPal disputes. Roughly one week after the due date I got two emails from PayPal; one of my disputes was closed in favor of the seller the other email said:

The forwarded email from the GAME store is not acceptable as third party
documentation. Please go to the store and get an authenticity document. It
must be on letterhead that includes the name, address, and phone number of
the authenticating party so that we can contact them directly, if
necessary. I have included all the requirements below:

1. Obtain a document... (as above)

By that point I had given up and didn't bother trying to get my other $35 back. I sent the seller a message saying other buyers have left feedback saying the items are "not genuine" and asked for a refund. He sent me a profanity packed response saying he never said the items were genuine (his listings clearly said "genuine").

As for what I should have done...

I still don't understand PayPal's standards of proof. I think my two options were

1. Saying the items never arrived. They were posted without tracking so the seller would have been forced to refund me.

2. Court. I still had one unopened Wii remote and nunchuck combo in the postal packaging with the seller's name written on it. Along with the message he sent me contradicting the word "genuine" in his listing I think I had all the evidence I needed to win.

How would have you guys handled the situation?

 

[Ryukouki]

Sounds like you ordered internationally. De facto rule of advice. If electronics are coming out of an international shipment, it's more than likely going to be a generic brand.

 

[milkman12345]

Sounds like you ordered internationally. De facto rule of advice. If electronics are coming out of an international shipment, it's more than likely going to be a generic brand.

"his [the seller's] state borders mine"

It was an Australian seller.

 

[Kouen Hasuki]

I would have right off the bat contacted the seller about it rather than ran off and gave neg feedback and if he asked for return postage I would have then mentioned contacting ebay / paypal about fake goods they normally would have folded then

Also in the situation you are in now I would get a letter headed letter of some sort from a manager of game or something regarding it. you see that little note you got could have been written by anyone and proves nothing and as such can understand paypal not accepting it as proof

 

[Ryukouki]

"his [the seller's] state borders mine"

It was an Australian seller.

Hmm... either way, it's still a bit risky to buy those kinds of things online. The rate of failure buying those online is far higher, sadly. It's regrettable.

 

[tester28]

by the looks of things he has sent you the evidence you need in the profanity filled response where HE states he did not intend to sell them as genuine, just send the message along with a screen shot of the sale page to pay pal that should suffice as evidence

 

[milkman12345]

I would have right off the bat contacted the seller about it rather than ran off and gave neg feedback and if he asked for return postage I would have then mentioned contacting ebay / paypal about fake goods they normally would have folded then

Also in the situation you are in now I would get a letter headed letter of some sort from a manager of game or something regarding it. you see that little note you got could have been written by anyone and proves nothing and as such can understand paypal not accepting it as proof

The screenshot clearly said it came from GAME so I thought it would be enough. PayPal clearly did not.

by the looks of things he has sent you the evidence you need in the profanity filled response where HE states he did not intend to sell them as genuine, just send the message along with a screen shot of the sale page to pay pal that should suffice as evidence

After a PayPal dispute is closed for an item you cannot open another one.

The thing happened over a year ago and eBay deletes your messages after 6 months. There's really nothing I can do about it now.

 

[tester28]

The screenshot clearly said it came from GAME so I thought it would be enough. PayPal clearly did not.


After a PayPal dispute is closed for an item you cannot open another one.

The thing happened over a year ago and eBay deletes your messages after 6 months. There's really nothing I can do about it now.

Welp that sucks, just had a quick peek at Australian law, if this happens again i advise use of the trades description act 1905 as a dispute in ebay its self.
Ebay is actually quite good in handeling internal problems.

 

[Kouen Hasuki]

The screenshot clearly said it came from GAME so I thought it would be enough. PayPal clearly did not.


After a PayPal dispute is closed for an item you cannot open another one.

The thing happened over a year ago and eBay deletes your messages after 6 months. There's really nothing I can do about it now.

So wait we are talking about something that happened a year ago??? I think your a little late to be asking advice bro

 

[milkman12345]

So wait we are talking about something that happened a year ago??? I think your a little late to be asking advice bro

I know that. I still think about it sometimes especially when I see people bragging about scamming free shit with PayPal scams. Who knows, I may find myself in a similar situation in the future.

 

[Cartmanuk]

Use a credit card and do charge back once items returned.
Most countries offer a 7-14 day money back offer on mail order items.
PayPal are slow to act but credit card company only ask you to wait 28 days.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

And that's one reason why PayPal is losing credibility.

 

[Kouen Hasuki]

And that's one reason why PayPal is losing credibility.

They had some?

 

[Hells Malice]

My experience with Paypal is they'll usually just side with the seller because it's easier, and tell you to fuck off and die in a hole.

Always go through ebay itself, or your credit card. Ebay usually gets shit done in regards to fraud.

 

[Cartmanuk]

Ebay usually gets shit done in regards to fraud.

LOL eBay own PayPal.

 

[Hells Malice]

LOL eBay own PayPal.

They can own it all they want but they clearly don't run it, because i've never had a problem with Ebay, yet Paypal has been a pain in the ass at every corner.

 

[qwertymodo]

From what you've posted, you did just about everything wrong that you could have done. There are official channels for a reason, and they even have FAQ guides, both on Ebay and PayPal for how to handle this sort of thing. Upon receiving fraudulent merchandise, your first response should have been to contact the seller BEFORE leaving feedback. Feedback cannot be edited or removed, so you should always try to resolve issues before leaving feedback, so that if the seller manages to rectify the situation in an agreeable manner, that can be reflected in your feedback. This exchange should have gone something like this:

• Contact the seller. Politely, but firmly, explain that you were led to believe that you were purchasing genuine, OEM accessories, and that what you received was not genuine. Request a full refund, including return shipping. Make it clear that you are not willing to pay the return shipping because the listing was fraudulent. Indicate that if a full refund is not issued, you will file a claim with Ebay, PayPal, and your credit card (assuming you have a card associated with your PayPal account, this gives you 3 layers of consumer protection). Also indicate that they will have to cover the return shipping if they wish to have the product returned. Keep the tone polite, no accusations. It is possible, though unlikely, that the seller actually believed that they were selling genuine goods, and it is considered poor business conduct to throw around accusations of fraud right out of the gate.
  
• At this point, the ball is in their court. Many sellers will simply issue the refund, end of story. I once bought a pair of bootleg Pokemon HG/SS carts, and the seller didn't even ask me to return them because I made it clear I wasn't going to pay for international shipping to Hong Kong (yeah, should've been a red flag for me from the outset... you live and you learn). Give the seller a day or two to respond. If they don't respond at all, send one more message, indicating that if you don't hear from them within a reasonable amount of time (give another 2-3 days), you will escalate to a formal claim.
  
• If they still don't respond, or respond negatively, file a claim WITH EBAY. NOT WITH PAYPAL OR YOUR CARD. Explain what happened, your reason for suspecting that the merchandise was fraudulent, and provide your communication with the seller as evidence of your attempts to resolve the issue. Allow Ebay time to process the claim.
  
• If Ebay rejects the claim, THEN you file a claim with PayPal. At this point, you provide as evidence your communication with the seller, your claim with Ebay, and any supporting documentation you can come up with, such as the aforementioned verification of authenticity document that PayPal requested. You made a big deal about how PayPal didn't accept a screenshot of an email as valid documentation... welcome to the real world. They spelled out for you exactly what you needed in terms of valid documentation. Submitting a screenshot of an email saying "We have inspected the items and unfortunately they are unofficial. Hopefully this is enough for your claim." is kind of like giving your boss a cellphone photo of a doctor's note that says "He was sick. Hope that's good enough for his call-out last week."
  
• If PayPal rejects your claim, you then move on to your credit/debit card company (assuming you have a card associated with your PayPal account). File for a chargeback, providing a paper trail of everything you have attempted thus far. I don't know what consumer protection laws you have down under, but there should be some legal protections in place against fraudulent merchandise.
  
• If your card provider rejects your claim... well, then you're SOL.
  
• Once the ENTIRE claim process has been completed, THEN you leave feedback with the seller. Knock them points for selling fake merchandise, knock them points for not responding to your messages (or for responding unreasonably, if that's the case). Mention the fake merchandise in the comment. However, if the seller DID resolve the issue, say that too. The point of feedback is to keep other people from having to go through the same ordeal, but if the seller was responsive and offered a refund without a problem (which didn't happen in your case, but if it had gone differently, like it did for me), then your feedback should reflect that, because maybe somebody out there doesn't care if they are buying a knockoff, but they want quick shipping and a seller who's polite and responsive in case there are problems. Your feedback should reflect your actual experience, rather than just giving 1 star ratings across the board just to spite the seller (again, not so much in your case, but I'm trying to speak generally here...)

 

[nando]

don't ever use paypal. I hate them.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

I personally never had a problem with paypal. But then again, if you want to use eBay, it's one of the only choices you got. (NOT THE ONLY ONE, BUT MOST CONVENIENT).

But hey, next time dont buy something from someone who doesn't have a good rating, unless it's someone you personally know.

 

[Thomas83Lin]

don't ever use paypal. I hate them.

Guess I've just had great luck with paypal, never had a problem with getting my money back, nor did I ever have to get 3rd party involved. I've only had to open a case twice, I guess since I didn't receive anything it was easier for paypal to side with me. I'll continue using Paypal until they give me a reason not to.