Nintendo Swapnote shutdown world-wide

[emigre]

What was wrong with my statement? By all means feel free to explain why you think the chat service designed solely for recreation is worth the sexual abuse of children.

Appropriate me thinks.

 

[FluffyLunamoth]

This isn't used for business and nothing depends on it. It's not like shutting down phones.

SwapNote is also very different from most forms of communication. The 3DS is mainly used by children, it's already got a built in camera, and there was no way to monitor who used the SwapNote service. It hadn't crossed my mind before these incidents, but that makes it SOOOOOOOOOO much easier for online predators.

I don't even know why I'm continuing this...give me definitive stats that the 3DS is mainly used by children. Throughout my Twitter accounts(about 500 different people), Facebook('bout a 100), and various forums and services, I know at least a 5:1 ratio of people over 15 compared to under 15.

Now then. Most phones(read as: all smartphones) these days have at least one camera built in. Usually two, maybe even three. Second, all Swapnotes went through Nintendo's servers. There is most definitely a way for them to monitor who used Swapnote, and what went through it. My guess is that they simply don't have those tools up to what they need to be.

Now use your brain for this one. How did these kids give their 3DS friendcodes to these "child predators"? Well, they had to be on another site to do so. IRC, forums, messengers, Facebook, you name it. After all, you can't send a Swapnote to someone you don't have on your friendslist. That's actually part of what makes Nintendo Wifi Services a bit more safe than stuff like PSN or Xbox Live, you have to actually have contact with someone outside of the service to get their friendcode.

Nintendo, and Swapnote, are not the problem here. Neither hold any blame at all. They are simply a provider of a medium, and a medium of communication. Don't blame them if some idiot kid goes and gives his/her friendcode to some random schmuck online, and then has the stupidity to send them nude pictures.

 

[Gahars]

Don't pull that crap, I didn't say any of those things and you know it.

Then you have a fucked up point of view. SwapNote is one of hundreds of forms of communication, and a small one at that. Are you really fine with the thought of predators seeking out children and not only exploiting their innocence, but also likely traumatizing them for life once they understand what has actually happened, all because you want to use something like email?

What was wrong with my statement? By all means feel free to explain why you think the chat service designed solely for recreation is worth the sexual abuse of children.

Don't pull that crap, I didn't say any of those things and you know it.

"T-that's not fair, y-you can't do that."

Communication services, like art, don't need to justify their existence or make themselves "legitimate." Enabling communication between people across any distance is reason enough. Swapnote was no less worthwhile than, say, internet forums or text messages.

And you know, that text message comparison is valid. Both allow you to talk to others and send images. Really, the biggest difference (besides the device used, at least) is that the 3DS' Swapnote was harder to access, thanks to the need for Friend Codes (longer than the typical phone number) and the parental locks available (which include setting a private pin number). Of the two, Swapnote was more secure.

Not only that, the predators in question were already in contact with the girls over the internet. Swapnote was incidental, not essential, to what they were doing; they didn't need it anyway. Shuttering the service only harms the decent, honest customers. Predators won't even be inconvenienced. So what exactly is Nintendo accomplishing here?

And the worst part, the absolute worst part, is how Nintendo handled this. If Nintendo at least had the courtesy to be upfront and honest about what motivated the policy change, if Nintendo at least gave its customers some fair warning in advance, I could sort of respect that. I mean, I'd still think they were absolutely wrong, but I could appreciate that level of openness. They couldn't even manage that. They only gave the vaguest of justifications and shut it down immediately. No warning. No alternative service to offer. Absolutely nothing. Whether or not it was the intention, that shows a pretty callous disregard for their customers, the very people who are supporting them. Whether that's thoughtless, careless, or both, I'll let you decide (but the answer is "both").

At the end of the day, it's the people, not the service, that are to blame. Blaming Swapnote for this crime is like blaming the car for a drive-by.

 

[JoostinOnline]

I don't even know why I'm continuing this...give me definitive stats that the 3DS is mainly used by children. Throughout my Twitter accounts(about 500 different people), Facebook('bout a 100), and various forums and services, I know at least a 5:1 ratio of people over 15 compared to under 15.

It was in one of their statements, but the fact that the games generally target teenagers and younger should be enough.

Now then. Most phones(read as: all smartphones) these days have at least one camera built in. Usually two, maybe even three. Second, all Swapnotes went through Nintendo's servers. There is most definitely a way for them to monitor who used Swapnote, and what went through it. My guess is that they simply don't have those tools up to what they need to be.

How are tools supposed to monitor drawings? There is no text in SwapNote. Unless they have hundreds of people monitoring every note that goes through (notes are received in a matter of minutes), there is nothing to be done.

Now use your brain for this one. How did these kids give their 3DS friendcodes to these "child predators"? Well, they had to be on another site to do so. IRC, forums, messengers, Facebook, you name it. After all, you can't send a Swapnote to someone you don't have on your friendslist. That's actually part of what makes Nintendo Wifi Services a bit more safe than stuff like PSN or Xbox Live, you have to actually have contact with someone outside of the service to get their friendcode.

Look at your signature. You and millions of people just list their friend code and add anyone who gives them theirs.

Nintendo, and Swapnote, are not the problem here. Neither hold any blame at all. They are simply a provider of a medium, and a medium of communication. Don't blame them if some idiot kid goes and gives his/her friendcode to some random schmuck online, and then has the stupidity to send them nude pictures.

When did I say Nintendo was to blame? I said I support their decision.

 

[Qtis]

It was in one of their statements, but the fact that the games generally target teenagers and younger should be enough.

How are tools supposed to monitor drawings? There is no text in SwapNote. Unless they have hundreds of people monitoring every note that goes through (notes are received in a matter of minutes), there is nothing to be done..

If Nintendo can detect a penis in many forms on Miiverse, it can detect inappropriate content on swapnote. It doesn't matter that the content is a picture. Otherwise we couldn't transform images of text into a plain text file, which could be done years ago.

PS. This is going highly off topic, but saying "it's targeted at people aged x, thus users are aged x" is flawed. Easy example is My Little Pony. While there are many kids that like the franchise, there are also a ton of adults, Baronies (sp?), who buy a lot of content and are active on forums. Even on this forum (EoF, off topic areas, even some threads in other sections).

 

[JoostinOnline]

If Nintendo can detect a penis in many forms on Miiverse, it can detect inappropriate content on swapnote. It doesn't matter that the content is a picture. Otherwise we couldn't transform images of text into a plain text file, which could be done years ago.

Nintendo can't do that on Miiverse. It's all based on people reporting stuff that is against the rules. If nobody reports it, nothing happens.

 

[McHaggis]

How are tools supposed to monitor drawings? There is no text in SwapNote. Unless they have hundreds of people monitoring every note that goes through (notes are received in a matter of minutes), there is nothing to be done.

You're a pretty adept programmer, I would have expected you'd know at least a little something of the capabilities in that field. Handwriting recognition is nothing new, and even if the text is only just legible to humans, the software actually records the gestures used to draw (so that it can redraw them on the receiving 3DS). It wouldn't be too difficult to create a gist of what was being written and flag/delete any that contain certain keywords.

There's also been advancements in the image processing fields. Nudity detection, while not perfect, could still be considered decent enough to catch the majority of inappropriate photos sent through SwapNote/Letterbox.

Look at your signature. You and millions of people just list their friend code and add anyone who gives them theirs.

You do have a point there. I also agree with your points that the 3DS is more accessible as a means of communication to some children, that may only have occasional access to a computer or a mobile phone, but can use their 3DS unmonitored because their parents think they're just playing games. It's also very easy to reset the pin when you do have access to a computer, the 4th google result is a homebrew PC utility to do it for you. However, I agree with Gahars and others that Nintendo were a bit rash here. Just implementing those two methods of detection might have been enough to stop these predators or catch them before they were able to exploit those children. Implementing them now would have been enough to appease anybody who might have been quick to point the blame at Nintendo.

I can kind of see Nintendo's side of things. Companies catering towards children are much more susceptible to bad press for inadequacies in protection than, say, an internet forum, social networking site or email provider. It doesn't really excuse turning your back on all the people legitimately using your service, though.

 

[Qtis]

Nintendo can't do that on Miiverse. It's all based on people reporting stuff that is against the rules. If nobody reports it, nothing happens.

False. Nintendo has an automated penis detection tool on Miiverse. http://www.p4rgaming.com/iwata-asks-miiverse-penis-drawing-detection-took-weeks-to-develop/

 

[JoostinOnline]

You're a pretty adept programmer, I would have expected you'd know at least a little something of the capabilities in that field. Handwriting recognition is nothing new, and even if the text is only just legible to humans, the software actually records the gestures used to draw (so that it can redraw them on the receiving 3DS). It wouldn't be too difficult to create a gist of what was being written and flag/delete any that contain certain keywords.

There's also been advancements in the image processing fields. Nudity detection, while not perfect, could still be considered decent enough to catch the majority of inappropriate photos sent through SwapNote/Letterbox.

There's nothing to suggest any of that was used.

You do have a point there. I also agree with your points that the 3DS is more accessible as a means of communication to some children, that may only have occasional access to a computer or a mobile phone, but can use their 3DS unmonitored because their parents think they're just playing games. It's also very easy to reset the pin when you do have access to a computer, the 4th google result is a homebrew PC utility to do it for you. However, I agree with Gahars and others that Nintendo were a bit rash here. Just implementing those two methods of detection might have been enough to stop these predators or catch them before they were able to exploit those children. Implementing them now would have been enough to appease anybody who might have been quick to point the blame at Nintendo.

I can kind of see Nintendo's side of things. Companies catering towards children are much more susceptible to bad press for inadequacies in protection than, say, an internet forum, social networking site or email provider. It doesn't really excuse turning your back on all the people legitimately using your service, though.

See if this was an issue of something that could be made safer with a patch, then I would say shutting the thing down is rash. But after all this time, there were no patches and they decided to shut it down. Nintendo said they were aware that it was being abused for many months and had been trying to find a way to prevent it (or something like that, I believe it's in the latest press release). That would suggest they found no alternative. In such a case, I think shutting the service down, which they had no obligation to keep up as it isn't part of the 3DS, is a very understandable move.

False. Nintendo has an automated penis detection tool on Miiverse. http://www.p4rgaming.com/iwata-asks-miiverse-penis-drawing-detection-took-weeks-to-develop/

That looks really fake. Maybe it's real, but it just doesn't read like it. Besides, 20% of the drawings being penises? That's nonsense. I've been on Miiverse for like a year now (and I check drawings regularly on lots of the communities), and I've seen one pic that was inappropriate. It was a chick giving a dude a blowjob. I reported it, and it got removed.

 

[McHaggis]

There's nothing to suggest any of that was used.

You asked how tools could be used to monitor SwapNote drawings. I wasn't implying that they were already implemented.

See if this was an issue of something that could be made safer with a patch, then I would say shutting the thing down is rash. But after all this time, there were no patches and they decided to shut it down. Nintendo said they were aware that it was being abused for many months and had been trying to find a way to prevent it (or something like that, I believe it's in the latest press release). That would suggest they found no alternative. In such a case, I think shutting the service down, which they had no obligation to keep up as it isn't part of the 3DS, is a very understandable move

There's no press release (that I can find) suggesting the length of time they were investigating solutions. It could have been a couple of hours last Friday afternoon. There's also nothing to suggest that their chosen course of action was driven by a lack of potential solutions (as opposed to an unwillingness to invest the time and money in patching the service). Implementing the solutions I suggested could have required some changes to the infrastructure to allow delaying messages, moderating messages, automated responses, and more. With MiiVerse planned in the short-term future, this could have been seen as a waste of resources.

You're right that they had no obligation to keep it running. As I said in an earlier post, it's an Internet service offered for free but costs money to provide and maintain, and as such it has an implicitly finite lifespan.

That looks really fake.

Yeah, it's fake.

 

[shakirmoledina]

man when will such issues end. I bet its happening in other services but since a greater no. of kids are using the 3ds, the risks are higher.

 

[JoostinOnline]

You asked how tools could be used to monitor SwapNote drawings. I wasn't implying that they were already implemented.

Sorry, I misunderstood.

There's no press release (that I can find) suggesting the length of time they were investigating solutions. It could have been a couple of hours last Friday afternoon. There's also nothing to suggest that their chosen course of action was driven by a lack of potential solutions (as opposed to an unwillingness to invest the time and money in patching the service). Implementing the solutions I suggested could have required some changes to the infrastructure to allow delaying messages, moderating messages, automated responses, and more. With MiiVerse planned in the short-term future, this could have been seen as a waste of resources.

I am 99% sure (maybe 98.9%) that I read it somewhere. It may not have been a press release though (I really think it was a direct statement from Nintendo though), in which case a large part of my argument is unfounded. If I'm wrong on that, I still think they did the right thing, but not to the degree I did before (I felt there was no question). It's almost 5AM right now though, so I'll hold off on looking for it until tomorrow.

Gahars I'm sorry I was so harsh earlier. Pedophilia is one of the most disgusting things in the world to me, and I can get worked up about it. I still think they were right to shut SwapNote down, but I shouldn't have been a dick about it.

 

[Kouen Hasuki]

Figured when it was first announced it was something like this

 

[Veho]

Nintendo had *one* job - explain to the users how Parental Controls work and how to allow their kids to only contact those people who are a part of the Friends List which should be approved by the parents. All this amounts to is shifting the blame from the parents who use the 3DS as a babysitter with no supervision at all to the company which hasn't done anything wrong.

Something a company whose policy is "let our consoles be your babysitter" can't help but accept. Trying to get parents to be (or even merely behave like) responsible adults would enrage and alienate their core demographic.

 

[Foxi4]

Honest question: are you a parent?

No, I'm not, but I don't think that disqualifies my opinion right off the bat. Some things are just common sense.

As someone who is, and who has also been somewhat mischievous as a child I can tell you that some kids will just find a way to do what they want to do. Curiosity drives them it's not difficult to get around parental controls and the like. It's not always about negligence either some people prefer to actually spend quality time with their children when they can,
and let the kids play video games while they're busy doing chores or cooking or whatever. I can partially sympathise: last place you'd expect this kind of thing is on your kid's "game boy". Of course, as a parent I take plenty of preventative measures, but I remember being a child myself and I did plenty of things (not like this, mind you) that my parents would not have been happy about.

In the context of the article we were discussing, what you're saying is that childhood curiosity alone allows a child to rent a room with two middle-ages strangers, but of course I get your point.

This is clearly a criminal case - a lot has gone wrong, both on the parent's end and on the hotel staff's end (I mean, two middle-aged guys and a kid renting a room for three? And nobody thought this looks a wee (or "wii" ) bit supicious?), Nintento's service was merely a communication medium.

As for "getting around parental controls", it's not really that simple these days, not to mention that "parental control" goes beyond the level of software. Utilizing software alone is, again, treating a machine as a baby sitter - parents should express interest in what their kids are doing online, not just artificially restrict them. Naturally I get your point though - being curios is a big part of being human.

I also haven't seen anybody blaming Nintendo. I think if that were the case, we would have heard about all this before the service was shut down. They took a course of action they deemed appropriate, I don't see any evidence of them being pressured into it. This isn't taking a feature away either, it's retiring a service. Features are implicitly permanent, services are not. Just like how your email provider can shut down at any moment.

Honestly, I think Nintendo was trying to save face before that even happens - it's peer pressure more than anything.

Look at your signature. You and millions of people just list their friend code and add anyone who gives them theirs.

I just wanted to address this part of your post since the rest was addressed by Haggis.

This is exactly why parents should have at least this much *uses thumb and pointing finger* interest in what their children are doing online, how are they sharing their personal information and with whom. A big part of being a parent is having to "give a f*ck" about your children.

Perhaps children shouldn't share friend codes with people who are not their friends - I know, the concept is mindblowing.

 

[McHaggis]

No, I'm not, but I don't think that disqualifies my opinion right off the bat. Some things are just common sense.

Nope, nothing disqualifies your opinion. That's yours to do whatever you want with and nobody can take it away from you. However, your lack of experience in the subject doesn't really give you much of a right to judge anyone who is a parent. :-P

In the context of the article we were discussing, what you're saying is that childhood curiosity alone allows a child to rent a room with two middle-ages strangers, but of course I get your point.

Well, it's just a good job I was using the context of your post when I wrote my reply, otherwise that would make complete sense... right? ;-) I realise you're just baiting me, though, so... nyaah!

Specifically, I was replying to the part where you said something along the lines of "shifting the blame from parents who use their kids' 3DS as a babysitter to Nintendo". Nobody except those involved really knowwhat's happened WTR to all that, so using a blanket statement such as that to apply to all parents who don't watch the screens every second of their child's gaming time might be considered somewhat hypocritical if you had kids of your own and knew that that's just not how you raise your kids. You can't keep them locked in a tower, safe from the big, bad, world 24/7. They're going to do things that are outside your control, sometimes things that are the exact opposite of what you tell them. My kids are pretty much angels, really well behaved, but even they sometimes don't do what they're told.

All that being said, I think you've failed as a parent if your 12 year old daughter winds up in some hotel room with 2 middle-aged guys. How it would even get that far is beyond me.

Gahars I'm sorry I was so harsh earlier. Pedophilia is one of the most disgusting things in the world to me, and I can get worked up about it. I still think they were right to shut SwapNote down, but I shouldn't have been a dick about it.

I can understand that, I feel the same. Even to the point where I don't really blame Nintendo for how they reacted (even if I think they could have taken less drastic actions). I mean, nothing should be more important than the safety of children, right?

 

[MelodieOctavia]

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame Ninetndo at all. In this "Can we PLEASE think of the children" society, things can take a turn for the worst for a company if they don't take appropriate action in the eyes of the general populace. I think in the terms of saving face, their best option was to take Swapnote out back and put it down Old Yeller style.

In keeping their customers happy? Well, I guess they figure they can afford to burn a few bridges.

 

[The Milkman]

You know what I find funny, when Swapnote first came out, all I remember hearing was "WHY CAN'T I JUST TYPE MY MESSAGES?!".

What defeats me is why Nintendo doesn't just integrate a messenger into the Friends app.

 

[Duo8]

You know what I find funny, when Swapnote first came out, all I remember hearing was "WHY CAN'T I JUST TYPE MY MESSAGES?!".

What defeats me is why Nintendo doesn't just integrate a messenger into the Friends app.

I NEED DIS!
I hope they'll come up with an alternative soon. Be it Miiverse or Flipnote.

 

[Deleted-236924]

Solution? Ninty could make naming private, so only you see your stupid names. (I think this might be the case but I have no idea...

It was the case in Pokémon Battle Revolution, but only if the Pokémon was named legitimately.
If someone used a save editor to nickname their Pokémon without checking the "Nicknamed" box, the nickname showed over Wi-Fi battles normally.

I don't even know why I'm continuing this...give me definitive stats that the 3DS is mainly used by children. Throughout my Twitter accounts(about 500 different people), Facebook('bout a 100), and various forums and services, I know at least a 5:1 ratio of people over 15 compared to under 15.

This is just in: the whole world consists only of your Twitter and Facebook relatives.