Hardware Wii won't display in 480p over component on any CRT, no matter what I do

[Fishaman P]

There was a SMALL number of 480P capable CRT TVs for a short time and that was called EDTVs Or Extended Def, High def requires at least 1080i/540P to be officially HD. The likelihood of yours or any other CRT to be an EDTV is Exceptionally low as it cost a fabulous amount of money for those TVs to be ED. Sort of halfway to a PC monitor, so to speak. May be just better to get a low end flat-panel LCD HDTV if you REALLY want to do 480P from your Wii. Here is ome more info if you are interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced-definition_television

Whoah... my local YMCA had a giant EDTV CRT. I had no clue what EDTV meant, and I just thought it was a marketing term.
Well, maybe when I check up on their softmodded Wii I can find out more about the TV.

 

[trumpet-205]

Whoah... my local YMCA had a giant EDTV CRT. I had no clue what EDTV meant, and I just thought it was a marketing term.
Well, maybe when I check up on their softmodded Wii I can find out more about the TV.

Enhanced definition TV, that's what EDTV is (not extended definition).

Basically CRT that supports up to 480i/576i is called SDTV, up to 480p/576p and it is called EDTV.

HIgh definition requires minimum support of 720i.

 

[Wisenheimer]

I seem to remember on my old CRT if I plugged an interlaced signal into the high definition port, it would spit out unsynced garbage. I do not think I ever tried the opposite. I just used the S-video output from the amp because it was the same quality for me.

Thank god for DVI/HDMI and plasma/lcd. There is no longer a need to switch back and forth.

 

[Wisenheimer]

EDTV is the format the Wii uses. It is also the format used by many broadcasters who, rather than broadcast in HDTV, will split the bandwidth into multiple lower resolution EDTV programs.

Unlike 480i, EDTV is capable of supporting multiple aspect ratios.

 

[Cyan]

480p is not supported on this particular monitor (and on yours) because it was never meant to, doesn't mean it's pointless.
Still I'm curious about what causes that "duplication" effect on a technical level and why do I get that instead of simple gray static or un-synced mess.

That's the first time I see a TV doing the side-by-side deinterlace. Usually it's top-bottom when the TV try to display an interlace signal in progressive (first image is displayed, then the second, but instead of displaying one after the other, it's displaying the second one bellow the first one), or double size effect (displaying progressive odd and even lines at interlace resolution, seeing only half the picture at a time).

when it's interlaced, the console sends 240 odds lines only on the first picture, then 240 evens lines on the next one, etc.
When you set progressive scan, it sends all the 480 lines (odd+even+odd+even etc., until the picture is rendered fully)
Your TV seems to display odd+even on the same line and keeps the interlaced height resolution (240p) instead of using 480p resolution with 480 lines per image.

usually, the picture is not stable and flickers if there are more lines sent to TV than the height it can display, but your TV seems to compensate the flickering effect by displaying two lines on the same one (and probably resizing/cropping their edge).

 

[drfsupercenter]

DVD never use 480p, it is 704 x 480 or 720 x 480 that is resized to,

* 640 x 480 (480i)
* 720 x 540 (downscaled by DVD player into 480i)
* 853 x 480 (480i)

On rare occasion you would see DVD in 240p.

Wrong. DVD video can use several resolutions, but the most common is 720x480. It will either be resized to 640x480 for 4:3 or 854x480 for anamorphic (16:9)

DVDs can be progressive, and quite a lot of them are (look at Disney movies). You have either 30fps interlaced, or 24fps progressive mode. (Yes, I know it's actually 29.97 and ~23.976, I'm simplifying) - that's for NTSC at least. PAL would use 25fps regardless.

But your statement that DVDs never use 480p is just plain wrong. They can use 480p just like a video game console can.

 

[GBA rocks]

That's the first time I see a TV doing the side-by-side deinterlace. Usually it's top-bottom when the TV try to display an interlace signal in progressive (first image is displayed, then the second, but instead of displaying one after the other, it's displaying the second one bellow the first one), or double size effect (displaying odd and even lines at interlace resolution, seeing only half the picture at a time).

when it's interlaced, the console sends 240 odds lines only on the first picture, then 240 evens lines on the next one, etc.
When you set progressive scan, it sends all the 480 lines (odd+even+odd+even etc., until the picture is rendered fully)
Your TV seems to display odd+even on the same line and keeps the interlaced height resolution (240p) instead of using 480p resolution with 480 lines per image.

usually, the picture is not stable and flickers if there are more lines sent to TV than the height it can display, but your TV seems to compensate the flickering effect by displaying two lines on the same one (and probably resizing/cropping their edge).

Interesting.
Maybe it's got something to do with the fact my monitor has an horizontal resolution of 600 TVL, instead of 250-350 (?) TVL of common TVs.
Specs:
http://www.bpm-systems.de/pdf/pvm20m2mde.pdf

 

[cammelspit]

Wrong. DVD video can use several resolutions, but the most common is 720x480. It will either be resized to 640x480 for 4:3 or 854x480 for anamorphic (16:9)

DVDs can be progressive, and quite a lot of them are (look at Disney movies). You have either 30fps interlaced, or 24fps progressive mode. (Yes, I know it's actually 29.97 and ~23.976, I'm simplifying) - that's for NTSC at least. PAL would use 25fps regardless.

But your statement that DVDs never use 480p is just plain wrong. They can use 480p just like a video game console can.

You beat me to it buddy

 

[cammelspit]

usually, the picture is not stable and flickers if there are more lines sent to TV than the height it can display, but your TV seems to compensate the flickering effect by displaying two lines on the same one (and probably resizing/cropping their edge).

I had several displays that did the same thing for me. All were trinitrons of different generations, I would be curious to know if this one is also a trinitron display.

 

[GBA rocks]

I had several displays that did the same thing for me. All were trinitrons of different generations, I would be curious to know if this one is also a trinitron display.

Yes it is.

 

[Plstic]

I had several displays that did the same thing for me. All were trinitrons of different generations, I would be curious to know if this one is also a trinitron display.

I have the same PVM and they are indeed Trinitron displays. Sony made the best CRTs.

 

[GBA rocks]

Yeah and this particular model is awesome, with two component and one s-video inputs.
I only have one problem with my unit, near the upper left corner of the screen I notice the picture is slightly slanted to the left, not sure if it's a geometry problem fixable by tuning some screw-thingy inside or if I should rotate the deflection yoke (whose position may have been altered during transport/setting up). I still haven't been brave enough to open it and fiddle around deadly voltages. Actually I'm afraid of doing more harm than good.

 

[GBA rocks]

The reason this is so important to me now is that I'm getting the Zelda Wii U bundle in a couple days, and I want to use my Wii to play GameCube games in 480p on a TV that actually makes them look good (that way I don't have to shell out $200 on a GameCube component cable).
Tl; dr: HALP!

There's a Sony PVM-20L5 for 299$ now on ebay in US.
It supports 480p.
http://www.broadcastbaron.com/infopvm20l5.htm
Pricey solution but if you're really serious about 480p gaming..
Btw I would buy an original nintendo component cable anyway, before they get too rare.

 

[trumpet-205]

tl

Official DVD specification from DVD-Forum only specified 240p, 480i, and 576i. 480p and 576p are out of spec and are flagged with special flag (if DVD player supports it'll use progressive, otherwise interlaced).

Same thing with 23.976 fps. Take Star Trek Voyager DVD for example, it is 23.976 fps "wrapped" in 29.97 fps. Officially DVD-Forum calls for 29.97 fps and 25 fps only.

Both progressive (except 240p) and 23.976 fps are out of spec items. Older DVD players will not use them.

 

[drfsupercenter]

Right, they are "wrapped", but they are still proper progressive. Or basically, it's 480p, but it's coded in such a way that hardware players translate it to 480i30 on the fly. That's why we have 3:2 pulldown.

So yes, you're right - as far as software is concerned it's all 29.97fps and interlaced. However they *can* store progressive video, and for anything that knows how to read it (pretty much any modern hardware or software), it will be true progressive scan.

 

[Wisenheimer]

If you use progressive cables to get 480p, especially if you use the progressive hack in something like Devolution, your gamecube games will look pretty good on an HDTV, at least as good as your Wii games. They are basically being stretched by two pixels, so it might look a little jagged, but otherwise it appears perfectly fine.

Beyond Good and Evil is actually in a 16:9 ratio, so I zoomed it in, which obviously increases the jaggedness and cuts off a bit of things that appear outside the action, but it still looks reasonable.

 

[JFTS]

I have a similar question. I though I'd post it here instead of opening a new thread.

How is Wii displaying Virtual Console games? I know that for N64 it upscales them to its own resolution and they look quite better than N64 itself. What about SNES? I recently downloaded Final Fantasy VI and it looks absolutely terrible. I think it doesn't upscale the resolution at all, but I can't confirm it anywhere. Can anyone clear this out?

 

[TripleSMoon]

I have a similar question. I though I'd post it here instead of opening a new thread.

How is Wii displaying Virtual Console games? I know that for N64 it upscales them to its own resolution and they look quite better than N64 itself. What about SNES? I recently downloaded Final Fantasy VI and it looks absolutely terrible. I think it doesn't upscale the resolution at all, but I can't confirm it anywhere. Can anyone clear this out?

My understanding is that all Wii games, retail, WiiShop, and virtual console, upscale to 480p.

 

[GBA rocks]

I have a similar question. I though I'd post it here instead of opening a new thread.

How is Wii displaying Virtual Console games? I know that for N64 it upscales them to its own resolution and they look quite better than N64 itself. What about SNES? I recently downloaded Final Fantasy VI and it looks absolutely terrible. I think it doesn't upscale the resolution at all, but I can't confirm it anywhere. Can anyone clear this out?

My setup:
NTSC Wii
Original Component Cable
Component YPbPr capable CRT (supporting 240p and 480i, but not 480p)
Wii Settings -> Screen -> TV Resolution -> Standard TV 480i (my CRT being uncapable of supporting EDTV/HDTV 480p)

Software:
NTSC VC games

What happens:
Pre-N64 VC games default* to 240p and they look awesome (completely flicker-free stable image, sexy scan lines)

If I manually turn on 480i mode (in some games --> Home button --> Operations Guide --> Z+A+2), they flicker like crazy and miss the scan lines. The "You will need a Classic Controller" screen looks like blurred crap for some reason.

To revert back to 240p just press Z+A+1 inside Operations Guide. You'll hear a chime to confirm the change.

tldr: 240p ftw



*actually I'm not completely sure about what was the default setting, maybe I changed it from the beginning and forgot about it

 

[Lumstar]

My understanding is that all Wii games, retail, WiiShop, and virtual console, upscale to 480p.

Nintendo allowed 480i only games. MadWorld, Mega Man 9 & 10...
Neo Geo virtual console defaults 240p. With 480i optional.

As far as I can tell the reason PAL VC games lack 480p, is because "480p at 50hz" is a non-standard video mode.