Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[Aractus]

LOL @ your ignorance, bless!

No it's not high taxes, it's just good old-fashion price-fixing! Easy when you don't have to compete against the foreign distributor!

 

[Etheboss]

LOL @ your ignorance, bless!

No it's not high taxes, it's just good old-fashion price-fixing! Easy when you don't have to compete against the foreign distributor!

Lol, ok shows i know nothing about that part of the world, but somethings off, and you can't turn your gripe on a homebrewdev for that.

 

[Rydian]

It's not a false claim if it removes/limits a feature that's important to me (and probably important to most people with PAL games).

No, it does not do that. The Wii does not have that feature to begin with and installing Devolution does not remove that feature (since it didn't exist to begin with).

You're technically right that the system can't run ISO files, however, that doesn't negate the point.

When your point is about removing something, the something should exist in the first place for it to make sense (and of course additionally actually be removed from the system, but the logic isn't even getting that far).

• What about WiiMC? By your logic it "removes" the ability to play ISOs without verification... since it doesn't do it itself.
  
  
• And hey, don't forget about how The Homebrew Channel "removes" your ability to copy save-protected Wii saves to the SD! Because, you know, it doesn't do that, so by your logic it's removing that feature.
  
  
• Did you know that SNES9x GX "removes" your ability to play Gameboy Advance ROMs off your SD/USB, since it does do it itself? At least, according to your logic.

My wii is a launch-model with a wii-key and can boot the games from the disc channel from DVD-R.

Because it's been modded to, it didn't originally have that ability.

If you want it to play burnt GC game discs, you'll want a different mod with more capability, mainly a hardware mod (WODE/chip/whatever).

In fact, my Wii seems to dislike GC and (Wii) DL discs for some reason, and actually works better with DVD-R's compared to the original GC discs.

Older-model Wiis weren't intended to do DL discs and so weren't accurately tested/tweaked for them, it was a widespread issue when SSB Melee came out.

 

[Aractus]

Because it's been modded to, it didn't originally have that ability.

See, "by your logic" SD-HC card's aren't officially supported by Wii's either, since the software had to be modified to be compatible with them (modified via an official Wii update). But to be sure - using software patches I can also make my wii work with backups and remove the Wii-key, if I wish. Just because I had to add the feature itself doesn't negate the fact that it exists! Anyway your ignoring the point I made that I feel is more important, which is that tueidj shouldn't force his beliefs in his software.

You made an interesting point about my Wii not working so well with DL discs, but you offered me no explanation as to why GC games on DVD-R run more reliably than from the original GC discs?

480p is a feature that Nintendo removed from PAL Gamecubes, even though 60hz play was supported (@480i). Sony did a similar thing with the PS3, they put a PS2-on-a-chip inside the console, and then purposefully removed it for the PAL version. Ah, but what's that you say - didn't they add back the compatibility via software?

Spin it however you want. GC games have 480p compatibility, the PAL versions had that feature removed. As for my Wii NOT being compatible with backups, that's simply not true if I've updated the software, and just like updating Windows, etc, I can add or remove compatibility, features, etc with updates. Just because it's Nintendo's policy not to support 3rd party development, and Microsoft's Windows Operating Software is designed with the opposite objective in mind, doesn't really mean (I don't think) that changing the software on it is doing something outside of its own abilities, and that's my opinion on it. You seem to be of the opinion that changing the software - because it's something outside of Nintendo's policy - is against the console's "original abilities", and on that point I disagree.

 

[g4jek8j54]

Anyway your ignoring the point I made that I feel is more important, which is that tueidj shouldn't force his beliefs in his software.

So he should cater to your beliefs in his (free) software?

 

[grossaffe]

See, "by your logic" SD-HC card's aren't officially supported by Wii's either, since the software had to be modified to be compatible with them (modified via an official Wii update). But to be sure - using software patches I can also make my wii work with backups and remove the Wii-key, if I wish. Just because I had to add the feature itself doesn't negate the fact that it exists! Anyway your ignoring the point I made that I feel is more important, which is that tueidj shouldn't force his beliefs in his software.

I'm not even gonna bother with the rest of the post, I'll just stop here.

FIrst off, Nintendo's updates are official updates and so when such an updates includes SDHC support, it is officially supported. DVD playback, on the other hand, is not supported from the factory or by any of Nintendo's official updates, therefore it is not officially supported. Granted, unauthorized programmers have hacked in such functionality, it is not officially supported. If the writer of WiiMC decided not to support DVD playback with his program, he would not be depriving you of any officially supported functionality, but rather providing you with media playback functionality you previously had not had, but just not also adding in DVD playback.

Teuidj isn't forcing his beliefs via his software, because Devolution does not interfere with any other programming. If you wish to use DIOS MIOS, which plays GCN games via SD/USB without antipiracy measures, you can still do so while having Devolution installed. DIOS MIOS isn't good enough? Too bad. All he is doing is not supporting beliefs that oppose his own, and that is fully within his rights and 100% non-oppressive.

 

[Rydian]

See, "by your logic" SD-HC card's aren't officially supported by Wii's either, since the software had to be modified to be compatible with them (modified via an official Wii update).

I'm talking about third-party modifications from the way the Wii comes. By the way, SDHC wasn't added last or anything, so tons of Wii units came out of the box with SDHC support...

Anyway your ignoring the point I made that I feel is more important, which is that tueidj shouldn't force his beliefs in his software.

There's that word again, "force". Do you know what the word even means? Because it doesn't apply here.

To force something means to give somebody no other choice, either with physical pressure, political pressure, legal pressure, or removing all other options from them.

I'll repeat: Devolution is not installed on Wii units by default (so nobody needs to deal with it), and does not hinder the running of other software on the Wii. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. And your Wii will work as stock without it (it does not remove your other options).

Therefore, no, he is not forcing you to do anything.

You made an interesting point about my Wii not working so well with DL discs, but you offered me no explanation as to why GC games on DVD-R run more reliably than from the original GC discs?

Because I don't know (nor does it matter for this conversation).

480p is a feature that Nintendo removed from PAL Gamecubes, even though 60hz play was supported (@480i). Sony did a similar thing with the PS3, they put a PS2-on-a-chip inside the console, and then purposefully removed it for the PAL version.

Nintendo is not T, the Wii software is not Devolution.

As for my Wii NOT being compatible with backups, that's simply not true if I've updated the software

Modded the software with third-party tools. Meaning you changed the software from how it arrived from Nintendo (either on-system or via updates).

and just like updating Windows, etc, I can add or remove compatibility, features, etc with updates.

When doing that with Windows you're adding new software or changing settings in the existing software, rarely do you edit the original software itself (I bet you can't even tell me offhand where the windows kernel is located simply because almost nobody ever touches it, they have no need to).

In fact the only two Windows mods I can think of offhand that were openly used are the tcp/ip half-open connection limit removal, and the uxtheme.dll patching to allow extra themes on XP.
( http://half-open.com/ and http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS-Enhancements/UXTheme-MultiPatcher.shtml)

On the contrary, when softmodding the Wii you are making modifications to the Wii's original software files, for example disabling signature and other verification checks (patching them out either in RAM or on the NAND).

You seem to be of the opinion that changing the software - because it's something outside of Nintendo's policy - is against the console's "original abilities", and on that point I disagree.

No, I'm of the opinion that if you made changes to something to give it new features that it did not come with out of the box, then you have modded it to add unofficial features.

Which is how this works. USB loading is not an official feature of the Wii, and even if you mod the Wii to add that capability, Devolution does not remove that capability from your Wii upon installing it.



I repeat...

If you're actually against this on a moral standpoint and feel this strongly (A.K.A. not just bitching because wahhh he's not coding this free software the way I want it wahhh), then do something about it. Code your own loader.

This thread has 70 pages and the program's been out for a year. It's clear he's not going to change it.

But hey, go ahead and show that you're not morally opposed, you're just being a baby about the fact that this software doesn't USB load the way you're used to. If you really give a fuck, stop bitching and make your own. If you really think your morals are better and more important, than put your money where your mouth is.

 

[Aractus]

I'm talking about third-party modifications from the way the Wii comes.

But you and I have two different opinions about this. How the Wii comes configured is irrelevant, IMHO. Every Wii has the ability to play all region games, but is limited by choice by Nintendo in its factory setting.

To force something means to give somebody no other choice, either with physical pressure, political pressure, legal pressure, or removing all other options from them.

There's more than one way to force your beliefs onto others. "I'm going to give you something, for free, but there's a catch..." Tueidj is forcing his beliefs by forcing users to only use the version they own, even if there is a better version available to use. He is forcing his beliefs by putting in place a system whereby if you want to play the same game (that you already own) in a better quality, then you should first go and buy another copy of the game in the version that you want to play it!

I'll repeat: Devolution is not installed on Wii units by default (so nobody needs to deal with it), and does not hinder the running of other software on the Wii. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. And your Wii will work as stock without it (it does not remove your other options).

And I'll repeat what I said a while ago - Nintendo intentionally removed the 480p feature from all PAL GC games. It was also removed from the console itself, however that's less important here, the important thing to note is that ALL PAL GC games, every one of them, was intentionally crippled by Nintendo. There are a lot of PAL users, and we all own PAL version games, and if we want to play the NTSC versions then that may make us "pirates" according to some people's definition, however it doesn't make us "freeloaders". As you know, we also faced the same issue with the VC not supporting 60Hz.

It probably isn't important to you, as your GC games (if you have any) would likely be in the correct format for 480p. But it's certainly important to me, and other PAL users who would obviously rather play in 480p than 480i.

Modded the software with third-party tools. Meaning you changed the software from how it arrived from Nintendo (either on-system or via updates).

I don't see it that way. By that type of logic you would say that Windows XP doesn't support 7zip files (3rd party tool). And you know WinXP works with all kinds of stuff that it was never originally designed for, somewhat through MS updates, and somewhat through 3rd party drivers/plug-ins, tools, etc. The only real difference is that MS supports 3rd party development on their OS, whereas Nintendo officially doesn't support it on theirs. But software is software, and there has always been 3rd party tools for all kinds of propriety OS's. If something can be done with a 3rd party tool on a system, then that system supports it.

When doing that with Windows you're adding new software or changing settings in the existing software, rarely do you edit the original software itself (I bet you can't even tell me offhand where the windows kernel is located simply because almost nobody ever touches it, they have no need to).

Not off-hand I can't, but that's largely besides the point. You don't need access to the Windows kernel to use 3rd party tools (drivers, etc). You also don't need access to it to replace the boot-loader either.

In fact the only two Windows mods I can think of offhand that were openly used are the tcp/ip half-open connection limit removal, and the uxtheme.dll patching to allow extra themes on XP.
( http://half-open.com/ and http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS-Enhancements/UXTheme-MultiPatcher.shtml)

Actually there's plenty of others, such as removing the System File Protection.

On the contrary, when softmodding the Wii you are making modifications to the Wii's original software files, for example disabling signature and other verification checks (patching them out either in RAM or on the NAND).

But you don't actually need to do that. I can play an NTSC game on my Wii system, simply by changing the region and leaving the IOS's untouched. Remember the Wii itself is designed to play every Wii game and every GC game, and the limitations are only imposed by a region setting. Backups is a different matter, of course.[/quote]

 

[Rydian]

Dude, I have no problem with you wanting to do whatever the fuck it is you want to do.

My problem is with you making false claims that Devolution is removing features from your Wii, and that T is forcing you to do something.

That's obviously false, so stop making that claim.

 

[oslash]

im not arguing that this ap doesnt affects anyone but pirates but seriously, who cares if someone loads pirated backups at this stage
no game company is earning a revenue for the old gamecube games since you can only get them second handed

it actually only lets ppl who doesnt have the games to play the games of a franchise they like that they missed out

for me it actually bugs me because i have usa version of the games, and as we know usa versions doesnt have multi language support (i speak spanish)
also i have phantasy star online ep.III and i would like to see the servers more crowded

 

[PityOnU]

No idea why this thread still exists, it's just the same thing over and over again.

Yes, Devolution has anti-piracy. No, the author won't remove it. Yes, it's a royal pain in the ass.

None of this is going to change anytime soon.

Unless you're posting here about how you've "hacked" the Devolution binary to circumvent the AP measures, along with a download link where everyone else can get it, just assume whatever you were going to put is useless bitching and is wasting everyone's time.

 

[Rydian]

This thread is still open because people will post about it anyways, so we might as well have it in one thread people can ignore.

 

[grossaffe]

This thread is still open because people will post about it anyways, so we might as well have it in one thread people can ignore.

And sadists can break out the popcorn and enjoy the show.

 

[the_randomizer]

And sadists can break out the popcorn and enjoy the show.

Way ahead of ya, just bought a box of popcorn from Costco.

But man, this thread.... If people are so hellbent against using Devolution due to its anti-piracy measures or that it somehow ruins their Wii consoles, there's always Dios Mios, which I recommend to anyone who hacks their Wii, but that's a personal preference. That's the beauty of the Wii homebrew scene, we have so many programs, so many options to use whatever one we want. If I don't like Devolution, no problem, there are other choices at my fingertips.

 

[air2004]

This thread is still open because people will post about it anyways, so we might as well have it in one thread people can ignore.

I can't believe this thread has gone on as long as it has ( I think of it as my baby now lol ).
The only reason I started this thread was because I really wanted to try Devolution just to see what it was like and the fact that it would give use to the wiimotes I thought was a plus .
I know a lot of people were looking forward to using this program too , but somethings are just not to be I suppose. I still can't understand why tueidj would add these measures to a game system that is no longer produced.
To put in all that time and hard work , for only a few people to be able to use his program befuddles and intrigues me at the sametime.
I personally never cared for the gamecube , I thought the controllers were stupid and the graphics horrible , but , a lot of you do care about the gamecube.
So let me ask this question ( assuming tueidj hasn't already answerd this and by that I mean , him saying , because thats the way I made it , or something to that effect )...................

Why ?

 

[grossaffe]

Way ahead of ya, just bought a box of popcorn from Costco.

I got me an air-popper with some gourmet kernels. Melt some butter over top and shake in some salt... yum.

 

[air2004]

I got me an air-popper with some gourmet kernels. Melt some butter over top and shake in some salt... yum.

So now it's time to troll I guess ?

 

[gundamn]

Why not make all the emulators on the wii require you to dump and verify your original roms before they let you play them?

Just wait for nintendont...

http://gbatemp.net/threads/nintendont-crediars-new-project.349258/

 

[Aractus]

I dump my own SNES ROMS using my Super UFO Pro 8. But hey you know what? Unless you want make your own usb reader, or buy a retrode, there's no way to dump it straight to Wii. I suppose that if the SNES-9x developers wanted to be Nazi's that they could require that you own a retrode or super-ufo or legacy copier like like a Super Wild Card (I also have one of those, however I'd have to replace the cartridge reader to be able to use it to copy cartridges) - oh but wait, guess what? Why should any person have to own anything besides an original game in the first place, why should someone have to have these copiers to use emulators? They shouldn't. Just like ScummVM doesn't check if I have a floppy drive in my PC (which I don't), it just cares that I have the files from the floppies on my HDD (which I copied off an older PC than this one!)

FYI, I don't play SNES games on my Wii anyway, I play them on my SNES using the Super UFO cartridge and an SD card, so that's all really a moot point for me, but it doesn't bother me one iota if somebody else prefers to play on an emulator and doesn't own their own copier.

And just like the fact I play my GC games on my Wii (don't even know where my GC is), but I use the NTSC dumps not my own PAL dumps, because the PAL games were intentionally crippled by Nintendo.

 

[naxil]

for me part of the AP stay on WIIMOTE MEMory, people can use a program called wmgui (linux only), and check inside the eeprom.
The other part of the AP stay (hide) on storage media.
Who can try to check the eeprom memory?