Gaming Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMix - Theories and Speculation

[LeonDeka]

I wanted to talk about my own theories for the much hyped “Kingdom Hears HD 2.5 ReMix” that was teased in the end credits of 1.5 ReMix. Now as we know, the teaser footage showed footage of KH2 and Birth By Sleep, but we should expect there could be more than that added to the HD pack. I say “could” as in this is a mere observation to the “what if’s” of a possible 2nd HD collection.

I’ll say now that I’m not a technical expert, nor do I have any inclination of what Square Enix is presently doing, I’m only providing a rough estimation of the possibility of what could be included in such a collection if they are working on it and working on the assumption that a few treats may be in store for us.

Firstly, let’s look back at 1.5 ReMix:

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When we examine the data files of the disc and compare them to the original releases, we get some interesting numbers that possible show how much work was performed on these games.

Kingdom Hearts - Final Mix:
PS2 Game Size: 2.4GB
PS3 Game Size: 4.5GB

It’s safe to say here that the game went through a slight optimisation to get it going on the PS3. Some code tweaks, model enhancements, texture upgrades and so on. Surprisingly, the CG movies take up a lot of space. The game itself weighs in at only 2.06GB but the movies are about 2.5GB. Give or take.

Kingdom Hearts – Re:Chain of Memories:
PS2 Game Size: 3.0GB
PS3 Game Size: 7.5GB

Okay, I don’t know what they did to blow the data up so much. As far as I can tell, there are 2 files which contain the game data on the disc. On is 5.6GB and the other is 1.5GB. The other 0.9GB is movie files. I personally have no idea why it needed so much data, considering Re:CoM is the weaker of the ports. I’m going out on a limb and assuming that it was another team that handled the port and they did it their own way.

Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days Cutscene Theatre:
DS: 256MB
PS3: 4.7GB

Needless to say that this was a better port and they worked very well on the visuals and sound. I don’t need to say much more on this, but considering the emphasis on visual flair over gameplay, plus the fact more original scenes were added (and the 2.5hr length of the movie) it makes sense.

All in all, what I’ve stated (plus a few system and data files), it tally’s up at around 18.10GB. Not bad if I may say so.

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Now, let’s move onto the rumoured 2.5 ReMix.

Kingdom Hearts 2 – Final Mix:
PS2 Size: 4.03GB
Estimated PS3 Size: 7.9GB

Kingdom Hearts 2 contained some remastered textures in its release, giving Roxas a more defined head of hair and jacket without impacting performance of the game. Kudos to Square on pulling that off! I can see a Remaster of this game tweaking the textures a little more, music, lighting and the coding for this game. I assume it will balance out around 7.9 or 8GB after development.

Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep – Final Mix:
PSP Size -1.56GB
Estimated PS3 Size – 4.3GB

BBS will need quite a bit more work to get running on the PS3 in my own opinion. Not only will a lot of the textures have to be redone, but some sound work will also need to be done to get the music and voice-work up to scratch, depending if SE wants to go that distance. I can see some lighting work and a New UI going in there as well. Regarding Mirage Arena, I’m just gonna say that they will bonk that on the PS3 as well. Either neutered to a Single Player or Local Multiplayer experience or working flawlessly over PSN. Still, that would be a lot of work for them, and I’d assume (to get the game out for an estimated March release) they would go for a neutering.

Kingdom Hearts – Re:Coded Cutscene Theater:
DS Size: 256MB
Estimated PS3 Size: 2.8GB

If they don’t throw this into the remaster in some form, the fanboy’s will be moaning about it for years. True, Re:Coded wasn’t the best title in the series, but a 30min OVA recap would be more than adequate. A little bit shorter than 358’s recap but still effective none-the-less.

Now, here is one that is a huge “if”.

Kingdom Hearts 3D : Dream Drop Distance:
3DS Size: 1.7GB
Estimated PS3 Size: 4.8GB

A huge if right now, but given the fact that Capcom successfully ported Resident Evil Revelations to the PS3, I won’t say no to the possibility of the game appearing in some from on the PS3. Besides, by March next year it will have been 2 years since the game appeared on the 3DS, and elements from KH3D were used in the making of the KH1 remaster. It’s obvious they may be toying with it behind the scenes, but we will see in due course.

For a PS3 remaster, it would need a new UI, some control tweaks and integration of the game’s dual screen functions on PS3 and the potential use of 3D. Again, sorry for the comparison, but Resident Evil Revelations managed this quite well and it did not interrupt the flow of gameplay on the console versions.

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Overall, given my estimates, 2.5 ReMix with all those features plus extra data would weigh in at about 21-22GB. It would all fit on a single-layer Blu-ray and it is very possible for 3D to see release on the PS3. I have no idea how much work would have to be done on any of these games, but space-wise it’s very possible for them to pull it off.


Square-Enix, it’s all down to you now!

 

[gokujr1000]

Makes sense for Re:Coded to be given in the form of a recap mainly because it was on DS and on Mobile Phones in Japan, if I recall correctly. It also makes sense for KH3D to be ported with Birth By Sleep mainly because it's a 3DS and having it on the PS3 would be helpful for a lot of gamers who don't buy Nintendo Consoles.

 

[UltraHurricane]

if they do decided to do a 358/2 days style recap with Re: Coded it should be an hour at most, 30 min would be great because let's be honest, all the story did was hammer home a plot-point everyone already knew from a secret trailer

 

[Clydefrosch]

so with that huge if in front of 3D, was there any indication at all that it would be included in any way, shape or form so far?

and what do you base these estimated file sizes on? specs wise they could put every kingdom hearts game on one blueray if they wanted. and considering they would port the games, there is no problem at all besides doing all the work that a port requires. with or without 3D, its not like it was needed for anything, it has no relevance to the game itself, so they could just port it without any 3d at all.

 

[gokujr1000]

so with that huge if in front of 3D, was there any indication at all that it would be included in any way, shape or form so far?

and what do you base these estimated file sizes on? specs wise they could put every kingdom hearts game on one blueray if they wanted. and considering they would port the games, there is no problem at all besides doing all the work that a port requires. with or without 3D, its not like it was needed for anything, it has no relevance to the game itself, so they could just port it without any 3d at all.

I haven't played 3D yet and I'm trying to avoid spoilers for it completely but from my understanding 3D is the game that bridges the gap between the ending of KH2 and the beginning of KH3. That seems quite relevant to me.

 

[Clydefrosch]

I think you got me wrong. I mean, they could port dream drop distance without 3d effects cause theyre not needed for the game at all.
The ps3 supporting 3d effects is no reason to believe that dream drop gets added to this. And still having room on a blue ray isnt either.

The fact that every port of a game is quite expensive, its much more realistic to assume there will be as few games as possible. In addition to some useless bs like a video of all cutscenes from a game.

 

[gokujr1000]

I think you got me wrong. I mean, they could port dream drop distance without 3d effects cause theyre not needed for the game at all.
The ps3 supporting 3d effects is no reason to believe that dream drop gets added to this. And still having room on a blue ray isnt either.

The fact that every port of a game is quite expensive, its much more realistic to assume there will be as few games as possible. In addition to some useless bs like a video of all cutscenes from a game.

Ahh I see what you mean now that it's been further explained.

 

[LeonDeka]

so with that huge if in front of 3D, was there any indication at all that it would be included in any way, shape or form so far?

and what do you base these estimated file sizes on? specs wise they could put every kingdom hearts game on one blueray if they wanted. and considering they would port the games, there is no problem at all besides doing all the work that a port requires. with or without 3D, its not like it was needed for anything, it has no relevance to the game itself, so they could just port it without any 3d at all.

I'm basing the file-sizes on the sizes of the 1.5 remaster. All games upgraded to HD bloat up a bit, its not uncommon. But my figures were based on what i've discerned from examining the files. Overall, we can see a x2 bloat in filesize when moving to the PS3. And yeah, they could port it without 3D. Still, you never know what square will do. On another note, the touch screen controls from dropping back be customized pretty well to controllers. I'm a game designer myself and I can see how they can easilly re-frab those elements to a DualShock 3.

I think you got me wrong. I mean, they could port dream drop distance without 3d effects cause theyre not needed for the game at all.
The ps3 supporting 3d effects is no reason to believe that dream drop gets added to this. And still having room on a blue ray isnt either.

The fact that every port of a game is quite expensive, its much more realistic to assume there will be as few games as possible. In addition to some useless bs like a video of all cutscenes from a game.

I think they would have to include Re:Coded in some form. Crap game or not, it was still slightly relevant to the story in some small way. There is also the possibility they could make 2.5 on a Dual Layer blu-ray as a sort-of complete edition. Include all the above games, plus development videos, full issues of the manga, novels, etc. Its all possible in some way or another. Also, SE does have several studios under its belt. They could very well split up the remaster work to Osaka studio to get each game done and finished on time. Since BBS and DDD were both made by the osaka team, its only natural to assume they get dibs over their remasters. They do 2 short game remasters, while SE tokyo puts its all into the remaster of 2: Final Mix whilst consulting with Osaka on UI and textures etc.

Anything is possible. But in my own heart, if the game will be called "2.5 ReMix", its natural to assume that those 4 games fall under the banner of "Kingdom Hearts 2". That's my two cents...

 

[Chaossaturn]

When do people think Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMix will be out? as I'm holding off on playing Kingdom hearts 2, so I can experience the HD version.

 

[LeonDeka]

When do people think Kingdom Hearts HD 2.5 ReMix will be out? as I'm holding off on playing Kingdom hearts 2, so I can experience the HD version.

My estimate is as follows:

1.5 was announced at TGS 2012 and released in March of this year. I'd assume, given Nomura's comments earlier this year that it'd be silly not to think of us getting 2.5, that work on 2.5 was started just after the TGS announcement, maybe closer to Xmas last year. If they announce it at TGS, we may see it come out around March or April next year. US release...Summer/Fall 2014.

 

[chartube12]

kingdom hearts, final fantasy 10 and final fantasy 12 all share the same graphical engine. With this engine the games were actually created at 1080p then scaled down to either 320p or 480p depending on region. Many of ps2 games were actually created this way. The reason being it is easier to create characters at 1080p.

With the HD remakes they altered the original 1080p textures to scale them down to 720p. Inspite of what most people think, most ps3 games are only 720p and the ps3 stretches them to 1080p.

As for the disc sizes, Kingdom Hearts 1&2 use a sony patented data compression tech to get them to fit on there dual layer DVDs. Otherwise they each take around 10gb of data of the original versions or about 13gb for the international versions. It has been confirmed by SE the HD versions are not compressed and have the internation content & changes.

 

[Clydefrosch]

I'm basing the file-sizes on the sizes of the 1.5 remaster. All games upgraded to HD bloat up a bit, its not uncommon. But my figures were based on what i've discerned from examining the files. Overall, we can see a x2 bloat in filesize when moving to the PS3. And yeah, they could port it without 3D. Still, you never know what square will do. On another note, the touch screen controls from dropping back be customized pretty well to controllers. I'm a game designer myself and I can see how they can easilly re-frab those elements to a DualShock 3.



I think they would have to include Re:Coded in some form. Crap game or not, it was still slightly relevant to the story in some small way. There is also the possibility they could make 2.5 on a Dual Layer blu-ray as a sort-of complete edition. Include all the above games, plus development videos, full issues of the manga, novels, etc. Its all possible in some way or another. Also, SE does have several studios under its belt. They could very well split up the remaster work to Osaka studio to get each game done and finished on time. Since BBS and DDD were both made by the osaka team, its only natural to assume they get dibs over their remasters. They do 2 short game remasters, while SE tokyo puts its all into the remaster of 2: Final Mix whilst consulting with Osaka on UI and textures etc.

Anything is possible. But in my own heart, if the game will be called "2.5 ReMix", its natural to assume that those 4 games fall under the banner of "Kingdom Hearts 2". That's my two cents...

i am well aware that everything is possible. as i said, there are no technical limitations stopping them from doing anything. every game in the series was relevant to the story, if only because they said it was relevant. and they could put every game on one disk if they wanted too. they could even add original and remixed versions in there separately. filesize, controls, ps3 power, there is no limit to anything.

but there is a limit that should be obious. and thats the cost-to-performance ratio.

kingdom hearts 1.5 included hd remakes of two ps2 games. easy to port certainly if the graphics were already there in 1080p quality and just rescaled to ps2 niveau back then. it also included 2:50 hours of boring video, 80% of it being dumb talks on that clocktower. video sequences were probably there in hd quality too, and terribly compressed and rescaled to use on the ds. the ingame talks had to be redone somewhat i guess. still not much work since they most likely didnt have to redo audio.
they could, with a limited amount of work, resell people two games they already bought once or twice in the past. and a dumb movie that should not have influenced anyones purchase decision.


now we have a new mix, they call it 2.5, probably not because it will include all games between 2 and 3 (which actually would only be recoded and dream drop. bbs is a prequel game that should, by your logic, be part of its seperate 0.5 remix) but only to keep it in line with how they called their first game.

if they were going to keep it in line with 1.5, you'd get an hd remake of kh2 and videos for the portable games.

theres a somewhat chance that they might feel they have to include at least one more game so people wont get whiny. but thats about as far as a company that wants to make money would go. any additional game is not going to get them more sales. its only increasing costs and thus, reducing income. same with adding manga or novels (that would probably take money on two sides as that would have to be shared with autors or print companies). production videos could be possible, as they're dirt cheap.

file sizes and the fact that it is possible is not really an argument for any kind of company.
it'd be very much more likely that they redo the portable 'side' games in an additional remix which they can sell seperately.

 

[LeonDeka]

it'd be very much more likely that they redo the portable 'side' games in an additional remix which they can sell seperately.

Maybe so, but considering 80% of these remasters include 3 games it could be possible.

Besides, KH2, BBS, DDD. That's 3 games. Replay theater for Re:Coded, that's half.

Compare that to games like The Sly Trilogy. It had 3 games, and extra PSMove minigames. Thats 3 and a half right there.

Devil May Cry HD - 4 Games (Lucia and Dante Disk's where separate discs)

Splinter Cell - 3 Games

Ratchet and Clank - 3 Games

Jak and Daxter - 3 Games

Whats 3 games and an extras gallery?

 

[Clydefrosch]

for jak and daxter, who'd buy only half the games?

but with kingdom hearts, same as with final fantasy and similar games, people would pay full price for every single remake. from a marketing perspective, they fucked up the perfect opportunity to maximize profits when they had more than one game in 1.5 remix.

 

[gokujr1000]

for jak and daxter, who'd buy only half the games?

but with kingdom hearts, same as with final fantasy and similar games, people would pay full price for every single remake. from a marketing perspective, they fucked up the perfect opportunity to maximize profits when they had more than one game in 1.5 remix.

The "opportunity" you speak of is just a 50/50 thing. Most KH fans already own most Kingdom Hearts games on their original systems anyway, but I do admit some fans like the idea of having their games in a nice collection. I think what KH 1.5 and 2.5 are meant to do is give players a chance to catch up on the games they missed and give new players a chance to experience the story of Kingdom hearts so that they have an even greater chance of selling more copies of KH3.