When is pirating ok? (discussion)

[Its_just_Lou]

And how much do you think legal license to rent/rental copy costs? In the end the Games companies make their money back from someone....the rental cost pays the renting shop, the shop pays the publishers.

Indeed. I honestly can't predict WHAT effect(s) all of this mass piracy will have on the industry in the future, but I can tell you that I wont stop hoarding SD chips any time soon.

 

[Clydefrosch]

Indeed. I honestly can't predict WHAT effect(s) all of this mass piracy will have on the industry in the future, but I can tell you that I wont stop hoarding SD chips any time soon.

its going to have mass effects!

Back again... Let me tell you another thing that is going on here in Greece.
Almost any video club here in Greece (shops that rent movies per day) rent video games also. Which means that anyone can rent any game he wants for 2euro per 3 days and play any fcking game he wants... And guess what this is LEGAL. Isn't this piracy? Since company doesn't get money for every guy that rents the game and plays it for 2 euro? You can easily finish most of the games out there in 6 days which ends up being 4 euro and this is what almost anyone that doesn't pirate do here in Greece... Oh and not to mention that some games don't need disc in DVD rom to play so practically you rent it for 2e and then have it till you uninstall it LEGALLY!!!!!!

rental shops rent out rental copies that are strictly not for sale.
they get these copies from the publishers (they being the owner of the individual rental stores, its usually huge companies). they pay some kind of fee to be allowed to rent out the copies of the game. and that fee is not just a few bucks, its a lot of bucks.

the same is true for dvd/blue ray rentals. its not just that you can go and buy a 10$ movie, then rent it for 1$/day to 10 people and have your money back. that would be illegal, im sure it says so randomly before every movie and probably on the disk and somewhere on the inlay and cover too.

as for the playing without disk, thats rarely the case anymore, is it? one way or another, they either require you to use a no cd crack, which again falls into illegal territory, or they cut out online multiplayer or whatever else. as recently shown, they do whatever they can to bind games to cds and both of those to indiviudal machines as much as they can.

finally, with the rise of digital distribution, those shops will go out of business in the near future anyway. its already started for dvd rental stores.


your rental prices are ridiculously low btw. in germany, you pay 2-3 € per day for a game/dvd

 

[Its_just_Lou]

its going to have mass effects!

ZING!
(ba-dumm-TSCHHHH!)

Jokes aside, I should probably play that game at some point....because most are console, I dont really play the newer stuff, and am rather back-logged: Bioshock, Drake's, Castlevania(s), Resident Evil(s), Minecraft, Skyrim, Bastion, etc..etc..

 

[Filipe C Bello dos Santos]

Who said anything about NES ROMs?

I did.

Do you believe the material/financial cost to Nintendo is the same/less/greater for pirating a NES ROM versus a Wii ISO (or potentially 3DS or Wii U)?

no, i don't. But what does it change ? in the copyright laws says anything about development costs ?

 

[Veho]

I did.

Why?

 

[xist]

no, i don't. But what does it change ? in the copyright laws says anything about development costs ?

It's not development costs it's revenue loss. If you're pirating something that's no longer viable and therefore difficult to obtain normally you're prolonging something's cultural relevance.....if you're pirating games that are new and easily available and will have a financial impact upon publishers costs then you're avoiding paying for something you want.

There is a difference and an argument for archival sites like mumble-orama to exist to perpetuate out of circulation games.

 

[Filipe C Bello dos Santos]

Why?

Because you said that people always want to be entertained by the newest games. It's not that i was contradicting your argument. I was just saying that for me pirating is always using something without paying for it. doesn't matter how old the game (in this case) is.

 

[Filipe C Bello dos Santos]

It's not development costs it's revenue loss. If you're pirating something that's no longer viable and therefore difficult to obtain normally you're prolonging something's cultural relevance.....if you're pirating games that are new and easily available and will have a financial impact upon publishers costs then you're avoiding paying for something you want.

There is a difference and an argument for archival sites like mumble-orama to exist to perpetuate out of circulation games.

Square asked people that are developing a a free 3D remake of Chronno trigger because they still want to sell this game, like the DS version of it.

 

[xist]

Square asked people that are developing a a free 3D remake of Chronno trigger because they still want to sell this game, like the DS version of it.

You're ignoring the distinction between games (like Chrono Trigger) which have recent releases, and games like Captive on the Amiga/ST. It'd be criminal if Captive was forgotten, but without it's perpetuation via "piracy" it'd soon be a relic.

 

[Rydian]

Indeed. I honestly can't predict WHAT effect(s) all of this mass piracy will have on the industry in the future

Well, we have an example. Music.

People have been pirating/copying music for 40+ years now. Anything from home taping of radio broadcasts once the first magnetic home tape recorders came out, to Napster in all it's glory, music piracy has been around for ages and the music industry is still going strong.

This example fits in with the whole "piracy doesn't actually cause any financial loss" thing.

 

[Filipe C Bello dos Santos]

You're ignoring the distinction between games (like Chrono Trigger) which have recent releases, and games like Captive on the Amiga/ST. It'd be criminal if Captive was forgotten, but without it's perpetuation via "piracy" it'd soon be a relic.

What about excite bike ? the game was released in 1984 and nintendo released again, and kid icarus as 3d classics. But the game is the same.

correct if i'm wrong, but it doesn't take 100 years to a copyrighted protection to expire (ex: classic compositions) ?

 

[xist]

What about excite bike ? the game was released in 1984 and nintendo released again, and kid icarus as 3d classics. But the game is the same.

correct if i'm wrong, but it doesn't take 100 years to a copyrighted protection to expire (ex: classic compositions) ?

It depends upon the prevailing conditions - before Excitebike was made available on the 3DS it was a dead game...obviously that changed, BUT there was no way of knowing that it would and it's fair to have thought it'd never be republished. I think in terms of piracy you really have to consider the actual cost of what you're pirating.

As for copyright - it varies around the world. For instance US copyright is stricter than UK copyright.

 

[Filipe C Bello dos Santos]

I like what you said and i kinda fell the same. I usually download the games on DS/ GBA/ PSP that i want to play and when i finish playing i delete then. But when it comes to arcade games, nes games, 16 bit games, i save them all and always get back to the large romsets i have i find something to play again. They're classics after all!

but in fact, the companies still have rights on these games, and we're pirating them.

 

[retKHAAAN]

It's not development costs it's revenue loss. If you're pirating something that's no longer viable and therefore difficult to obtain normally you're prolonging something's cultural relevance.....if you're pirating games that are new and easily available and will have a financial impact upon publishers costs then you're avoiding paying for something you want.

There is a difference and an argument for archival sites like mumble-orama to exist to perpetuate out of circulation games.

Copyright infringement is copyright infringement regardless of potential for revenue loss or fear of data being lost forever.

 

[xist]

Copyright infringement is copyright infringement regardless of potential for revenue loss or fear of data being lost forever.

I don't disagree, but i'm trying to remain in the spirit of the topic - it's legally clear, but the argument becomes cloudy when you consider the potential for cultural loss implicit in discarding older games from outdated formats or limited runs. Is it right that in the words of the law only a (relatively) small part of video games culture remains available?

 

[TheCasketMan]

Pirating is ok when you download games for systems that are out of production and whose games are not being sold in stores right now, such as Atari, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, etc. But now with Nintendo's virtual console, i dont know if it is ok anymore, but some developers sont give a cr@p if their retro games are downloaded or modded, like the creator of Earthbound/Mother, which approved the fan translation of Mother 3, and encouraged people outside of Japan to download the rom and enjoy it. He even allowed fans to create their own Mother 4 fan game.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Pirating is ok when you download games for systems that are out of production and whose games are not being sold in stores right now, such as Atari, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, etc. But now with Nintendo's virtual console, i dont know if it is ok anymore, but some developers sont give a cr@p if their retro games are downloaded or modded, like the creator of Earthbound/Mother, which approved the fan translation of Mother 3, and encouraged people outside of Japan to download the rom and enjoy it. He even allowed fans to create their own Mother 4 fan game.

All those games are still for sale, just not new. I think it's supposed to be 70 years before it's actually legal to download the games.

 

[retKHAAAN]

I don't disagree, but i'm trying to remain in the spirit of the topic - it's legally clear, but the argument becomes cloudy when you consider the potential for cultural loss implicit in discarding older games from outdated formats or limited runs. Is it right that in the words of the law only a (relatively) small part of video games culture remains available?

It is not right. However, they belong in museums long before they belong as part of 1000 file romsets tucked away in pirate harddrives. If you think the majority of pirates download or copy games in an effort to preserve history...well...I hope you don't.

 

[Rydian]

but the argument becomes cloudy when you consider the potential for cultural loss implicit in discarding older games from outdated formats or limited runs. Is it right that in the words of the law only a (relatively) small part of video games culture remains available?

This!

It is not right. However, they belong in museums long before they belong as part of 1000 file romsets tucked away in pirate harddrives. If you think the majority of pirates download or copy games in an effort to preserve history...well...I hope you don't.

Yeah, see, the problem is that the organizations wishing to archive would be committing copyright infringement as well.

http://gbatemp.net/threads/the-library-of-congress-says-copyright-laws-suck.262963/

 

[TheCasketMan]

For modern games, it should be up to the developer to decide if the piracy of their game be legal or illegal. The creator of Minecraft doesn't care if his game is pirated, so Minecraft piracy should be legal. Still, nowadays, the publishers and not the developers control the games, and most of them are greedy corporate people, who will always oppose piracy, and will never let the developer which are treated like underpaid slaves, say a word of their own opinion.