When is pirating ok? (discussion)

[Guild McCommunist]

Yeah the sales of avatar over a 3 month period was approx $2 billion , im not wholy sure on the game equivilant , however the DLC vs DVD sales are about similar , bare in mind this is for major players in the industry and not 1 man bands (so to speak) MY general point is that i beleive for dev/marketing costs in the main games are over pricesd compared to the movie industry , now i know theres planty of aspects where this wont be the case , but when were discussing the major players , the gaming industry does take the piss with pricing.


typos aplenty : alcahol induced .. apologies.

$2 billion vs. $1 billion is pretty fucking big.

Also DVDs and Blurays generally have a larger audience than video games.

The comparison of movies vs. games in terms of production is just nonsensical.

 

[pwsincd]

yes 2 billion is bigger than 1 million , but i dint state the game sales after the date of my original post , so wtf u want a maths degree ? again DVD/ Bluray costs of that game/film comparison i made are remarkably similar . go check . so it equates. It isnt nonsensical when you consider the dev in a game these days is getting closer and closer to that of a major CGI based movie.

 

[McHaggis]

I like how this thread illustrates a number of members have entitlement issues and terrible logic.

I just can't believe it's still going.

Despite jimskeet's arrogance, I think he's said―albeit, illiterately―one of the smartest things so far: anybody who owns any piece of copyrighted material that they did not legally obtain, no matter what their reasons, has no real right to question anybody else's moral compass regarding piracy. I certainly can't, I pirate DS games and Wii games all the time, mostly because my kids are interested in a game one day and not the next. Like Guild said, nobody can argue that there's a good reason to pirate, but I'll do it anyway because. On the flip-side of the coin, I also own more brand-new purchased GC, Wii, PS1, PS2, PS3, NES, GB, GBC, GBA, DS and 3DS games than anybody I know. I don't buy pre-owned (although I have been gifted pre-owned games). So, while I'm not justifying the games I've pirated, I've funded the video game industry much more than most legitimate game owners, and that makes me ok with it. I'm happy to go on the way I always have, buying some, pirating some, hoarding most.

 

[pwsincd]

Well Said Mc.

 

[stomp_442]

If the video game manufacturers make a good game, then it will sell well. First week of sales for Black Ops 2 sold 11 Million copies (and that's just the first week), how many people do you think pirated the game without buying it.

 

[jimskeet2002]

jimskeet2002 I actually looked at your profile to try to view your age, I can't imagine anyone over the age of lets say 18 would consider video games an absolute NEED.

I pirate shit, not going to pretend like I care about Nintendo's millions and billions of profits, although I hear they're not doing as well recently due to poor sales (their fault) of the 3DS and/or Wii U. I have a 3DS but no games because I haven't found a title worth $40 yet, perhaps in October, we'll see. Right now I'm enjoying my Acekard 2i and a bunch of pirated content, but I did buy plenty of DS games back in the day, although I have since sold them for some extra spending money. I probably had around 15 titles.

I am 25 and I am really into games... I don't say that i need them to survive but they are a big part of my life as I said...
Edit: And how the hell do they expect Wii U to sell when they price it for 320 Euro.... REALLY???? And not hacked yet wait for it to be hacked and price lowered and it will sell fine That is the reason 3DS hasn't sold a lot yet. Wait for its hack and you will see

 

[McHaggis]

That is the reason 3DS hasn't sold a lot yet.

You're not doing yourself any favours in this thread, are you? The 3DS has sold 22 million consoles worldwide. I know "a lot" is a relative term but the most important relative factor is the competition and, in comparison to that, I think you can safely say the 3DS has sold a lot.

 

[jimskeet2002]

You're not doing yourself any favours in this thread, are you? The 3DS has sold 22 million consoles worldwide. I know "a lot" is a relative term but the most important relative factor is the competition and, in comparison to that, I think you can safely say the 3DS has sold a lot.

Well haven't researched how much it sold. Just took the guys info I quoted. But imagine how much sales will pump up once it gets hacked

 

[Toasty]

It's selling decently now, but aren't they selling it at a loss or something? They're still not making as much money off of it, they originally had it priced at a ridiculous $250.

 

[stomp_442]

It's selling decently now, but aren't they selling it at a loss or something? They're still not making as much money off of it, they originally had it priced at a ridiculous $250.

$250 at release, don't remind me. I could get a 3DS XL cheaper than I paid for the standard 3DS at launch.

 

[jimskeet2002]

$250 at release, don't remind me. I could get a 3DS XL cheaper than I paid for the standard 3DS at launch.

Don't you just feel you got ripped off?????????? And others here tell us jokes like not to pirate and that it is immoral... HAHAHAHHA

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Don't you just feel you got ripped off?????????? And others here tell us jokes like not to pirate and that it is immoral... HAHAHAHHA

"Ripped off". Implying you were swindled out of your cash or mislead by false advertising. Which you weren't.

If you bought the 3DS or any other console for that matter at a price you find "ridiculous" it's your own fucking fault. It's not like you were forced to buy one at gunpoint. It's your money to spend and you decided to spend $250 of it on a 3DS. Deal with it.

 

[sero]

Psychologically to me it is. I can't imagine my self without video games, simple as that.

That speaks to a psychological addiction, which you may wish to seek help for. I'm not trolling/being a jerk--if you feel that you can not function properly without a non-necessity, you may want to take a look at why that is the case.

Information is not inherently free. The fact that you use copyable data without paying for it means that you are devaluing the information. Consider this: If you had a time machine, and decided to go into the future and see the winning lottery numbers for the rest of time, would it be morally or ethically correct for you to use that information for your own gain? No. This is an extreme situation, but piracy relates in that engaging in it devalues the information or what it represents.

Is it morally right to counterfeit $100 bills? It isn't like you are stealing money from anyone else. Except that you are by devaluing the currency a tiny little bit for every counterfeit dollar you create. Piracy is no different.

 

[jimskeet2002]

"Ripped off". Implying you were swindled out of your cash or mislead by false advertising. Which you weren't.

If you bought the 3DS or any other console for that matter at a price you find "ridiculous" it's your own fucking fault. It's not like you were forced to buy one at gunpoint. It's your money to spend and you decided to spend $250 of it on a 3DS. Deal with it.

I think we all know what I mean when I say ripped off

 

[stomp_442]

Don't you just feel you got ripped off?????????? And others here tell us jokes like not to pirate and that it is immoral... HAHAHAHHA

HA HA, as I was shelling out $250 for my 3DS, the store clerk asked if I wanted any lube to go with that >><<

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I PAID $250 OF MY MONEY OF MY OWN FREE WILL ON A PRODUCT THAT WAS NOT FALSELY ADVERTISED IN ANY WAY.

TALK ABOUT RAPE GUYS.

 

[jimskeet2002]

That speaks to a psychological addiction, which you may wish to seek help for. I'm not trolling/being a jerk--if you feel that you can not function properly without a non-necessity, you may want to take a look at why that is the case.

Information is not inherently free. The fact that you use copyable data without paying for it means that you are devaluing the information. Consider this: If you had a time machine, and decided to go into the future and see the winning lottery numbers for the rest of time, would it be morally or ethically correct for you to use that information for your own gain? No. This is an extreme situation, but piracy relates in that engaging in it devalues the information or what it represents.

Is it morally right to counterfeit $100 bills? It isn't like you are stealing money from anyone else. Except that you are by devaluing the currency a tiny little bit for every counterfeit dollar you create. Piracy is no different.

Oh god.... Ok I will talk to a doctor for how much I like playing games. Are u happy now? I am not devaluing any information although they do need to get devalued....

 

[sero]

Oh god.... Ok I will talk to a doctor for how much I like playing games. Are u happy now? I am not devaluing any information although they do need to get devalued....

Bull. If you pirate games, you decrease the number of actual games you will buy. Case in point: if piracy didn't exist, you would buy games to satiate your habit.

Because you are removing yourself as a purchaser but are continuing to be a consumer of the good, you cause the demand for the item to become lower. Not by any noticeable amount, but when you take millions of others doing the exact same thing, you can see a huge amount of lost revenue and devaulation for games.

Look at the Dreamcast. Became popular right when CD burners were all the rage. Easiest thing in the world to pirate. Game system fell like a ton of bricks (for other reasons too, but piracy was a huge element in their downfall). When the system sells just fine but the games don't, you know there's a problem.

 

[ReBirFh]

Bull. If you pirate games, you decrease the number of actual games you will buy. Case in point: if piracy didn't exist, you would buy games to satiate your habit.

Because you are removing yourself as a purchaser but are continuing to be a consumer of the good, you cause the demand for the item to become lower. Not by any noticeable amount, but when you take millions of others doing the exact same thing, you can see a huge amount of lost revenue and devaulation for games.

Look at the Dreamcast. Became popular right when CD burners were all the rage. Easiest thing in the world to pirate. Game system fell like a ton of bricks (for other reasons too, but piracy was a huge element in their downfall). When the system sells just fine but the games don't, you know there's a problem.

*A marginal number of the pirated games really represent a loss and it actually can bring profit by turning you into a fan of a franchise of the game you pirated out of curiosity/lack of money.
(There are plenty of studies that shows that pirates are the biggest spenders/consumers of legitimate media)

*Piracy was the least of the problems the Dreamcast had, SEGA's lack of money, the console being sold at loss, the cost of Shenmue's development and most important the hype behind Sony after the original Playstation were the real reason it failed.

*PSX, PS2, NDS, Wii/X360 were the most easily pirateable systems of their generations and also the most successful.

 

[sero]

*A marginal number of the pirated games really represent a loss and it actually can bring profit by turning you into a fan of a franchise of the game you pirated out of curiosity/lack of money.
(There are plenty of studies that shows that pirates are the biggest spenders/consumers of legitimate media)

*Piracy was the least of the problems the Dreamcast had, SEGA's lack of money, the console being sold at loss, the cost of Shenmue's development and most important the hype behind Sony after the original Playstation were the real reason it failed.

*PSX, PS2, NDS, Wii/X360 were the most easily pirateable systems of there generations and also the most successful.

-The PSX and PS2 would not read without a modchip of some sort (or the slidecard for the PS2 if you wanted to go that route). Dreamcast could be pirated using things so many kids had available at the time: a computer, CD burner, a Dreamcast game borrowed from a friend or rented from a video store, and a quick online tutorial. Even the later generations that had anti-piracy measures were worked around without the use of a modchip.

-The NDS was hurt by piracy but because children occupy so much of its market, piracy wasn't that big of a thing. Not that many 40 year old parents are going to go trolling rom sites for their kid, or buying flash cards from websites that they don't recognize.

-The Wii has the homebrew channel, but piracy on it isn't perfect because of the continuous updates and difficulty of getting the ISOs onto the device. Fitting them on a 2GB card isn't always optimal, and not everyone has a portable USB hard drive lying around.

-The 360 has some of the same issues as the PSX/PS2 in that you have to modify the system (albeit through software at this point I assume) to allow it to play modded games.

Aaaand of course the existence of the DMCA that wasn't even an issue when the Dreamcast was out makes things sketchy, because there is now a risk of being caught.

So no, the Dreamcast was not harder to pirate than these other systems; I would venture to say it was the easiest requiring no additional hardware or changes to the unit itself. Not quite as easy as copying floppy disk games like we all did in the 80's, but still pretty simple. Like I said in my post, piracy was only one reason the Dreamcast failed--but it also had some good things going for it that could have saved it if game sales were successful.