3D-Printed Handgun Project Hits Roadblock

[Sterling]

Yes, because humanity is destined to be barbaric for the rest of our specie's existence right? I swear, that mindset sickens me! I know that there have been great atrocities in the past but we are not a bunch of rabid killers. Humans have sensibility, free will and the ability to do what is right, we dream great dreams and create great things. It all boils down to mindset and frankly there just needs to be a better effort in this less than great country to teach people how to deal with their problems in a way that does not result in death.

It does not all boil down to "mindset." Some of it boils down to biology. There's a reason we all have four pointy teeth called "canines" in our mouths. Some truths cannot be changed by a mindset. That doesn't mean a human being cannot control their primitive urges and exercise reason over rage. In fact, most do. But the weak-minded and evil-hearted will always lose that battle to control their greed, lust, and hate, and resort to murder as a solution. Sorry, you don't want to hear that, but this is the human experience. Better look around and figure out what's up, and while you're at it, get a Remington 870.

Ever heard of "being the change you want to be". Sorry but I'm going to go running around packing a handgun just because everyone else thinks it's the cool/macho thing to do.

Ever heard of common sense? There's a reason to pack even if you're against it. Don't want to kill an attacker? Shoot them in the leg. A bullet in the leg or arm will take out any normal person under normal circumstances just as well as a bullet in the head. Bringing your brain to a gunfight is more useful than knives or fists, but humans are fragile and weak. I for one couldn't pull the trigger to end another's life, but I pack the same. In fact, I keep a 12 gauge with three different types of ammo (Buck, Bird, and Bean Bag shot) in a gun rack behind the seat of my truck. I'm also in favour of open carry. No one is going to fuck with me if I have a loaded gun visible on my hip.

 

[431unknown]

This should be stopped immediately! The United States already has a huge gun problem. Every day/night there's a new murder in the news and that's just the five county area I live in. Being a person who survived a armed home invasion, I can say from experience that allowing people to just print guns willy-nilly is a horrid idea.

I'll give you a hint: Guns never were the problem.

People (especially on the right) say that all the damn time but frankly, easy access to handguns is not the solution either. There needs to be a national effort to deal with the mental health of its citizens and teaching better conflict resolution.

Not putting this link (in Spanish but subtitled) up to derail the thread any further, but this is the biggest fucken load of shit i have every heard. While I don't think this current project the thread is about should happen it will eventually. We are never going to be able to round up all the sickos in the world and we are never going to be able to totally control the illegal acquirement of firearms not matter what legislation is put in place. All that shit does is make it harder for people to legally get a gun that are legally allowed too and pass all the background checks.

Now back to the link. That shit took place under a Democrats watch perhaps maybe since they are so pro gun control they should have destroyed the guns instead of letting them get into the wrong hands. I know whats coming next " Thats not Obamas fault." "Eric Holder knew nothing." BULLSHIT. Same way I call BULLSHIT on Bush knowing that there were no WMDs in Iraq. Just fess up and say yeah we fucked up.

Again yes this should not happen there are already too many people that own a gun that shouldn't, be it legally obtained or not.

Yes, because humanity is destined to be barbaric for the rest of our specie's existence right? I swear, that mindset sickens me! I know that there have been great atrocities in the past but we are not a bunch of rabid killers. Humans have sensibility, free will and the ability to do what is right, we dream great dreams and create great things. It all boils down to mindset and frankly there just needs to be a better effort in this less than great country to teach people how to deal with their problems in a way that does not result in death.

It does not all boil down to "mindset." Some of it boils down to biology. There's a reason we all have four pointy teeth called "canines" in our mouths. Some truths cannot be changed by a mindset. That doesn't mean a human being cannot control their primitive urges and exercise reason over rage. In fact, most do. But the weak-minded and evil-hearted will always lose that battle to control their greed, lust, and hate, and resort to murder as a solution. Sorry, you don't want to hear that, but this is the human experience. Better look around and figure out what's up, and while you're at it, get a Remington 870.

Ever heard of "being the change you want to be". Sorry but I'm going to go running around packing a handgun just because everyone else thinks it's the cool/macho thing to do.

Ever heard of common sense? There's a reason to pack even if you're against it. Don't want to kill an attacker? Shoot them in the leg. A bullet in the leg or arm will take out any normal person under normal circumstances just as well as a bullet in the head. Bringing your brain to a gunfight is more useful than knives or fists, but humans are fragile and weak. I for one couldn't pull the trigger to end another's life, but I pack the same. In fact, I keep a 12 gauge with three different types of ammo (Buck, Bird, and Bean Bag shot) in a gun rack behind the seat of my truck. I'm also in favour of open carry. No one is going to fuck with me if I have a loaded gun visible on my hip.

I have a nice little .22 with a red dot sight for just this purpose I don't intend to kill anybody which is why I bought this specific gun set up this specific way.

 

[KingVamp]

No one is going to fuck with me if I have a loaded gun visible on my hip.

Or just be a big beacon to someone to get their weapons ready.

When 3d-Printing becomes mainstream, I'm using it for mostly for electronics; phones, laptops,
maybe tablets, TV's (ok,much unlikely) etc.

 

[Sterling]

No one is going to fuck with me if I have a loaded gun visible on my hip.

Or just be a big beacon to someone to get their weapons ready.

Not at all. If someone was brazen enough to do that in the first place, a hidden gun isn't going to do shit either. All the gun is, is a deterrent. Ever wonder why when you see a police officer the first thing that attracts your eye is the the fully loaded .45 at their hip? Because it makes you think twice about doing something. It makes you think before you act. Now what do you think would happen if everyone you walk past on the street carried a visible gun? Well of course that's a big mistake letting everyone do that since many people can't control themselves, but at the same time you'd be second guessing every chance of retaliation. It's a huge deterrent. It's the reason all officers carry on and off duty.

 

[Gahars]

To chip in my two cents in the debate:

I generally support gun control. Not super restrictive gun control, but I believe we need to do our best to ensure that firearms are only in the hands of those who will use them responsibly (or preferably, never at all).

With the great strides being made in 3D printing, however, this is going to become less and less feasible. We will come to a point, sooner or later, where the laws on the matter will basically become meaningless. Do you want a gun? Bam, just give the print job 5 minutes and hope there's no jam along the way.

Trying to ban this through legislation will be like trying to stop an avalanche with a shovel; try as you might, you're not going to get very far. With this in mind, we need to shift focus. If we want to prevent gun violence, we need to step up our efforts in education, identification and treatment for the mentally ill, etc. If we can't stop guns from getting into our society, we should try to make a society that won't suffer for them.

 

[Hanafuda]

Here's something that I'll freely admit to ignorance of ... when we're talking about 3D printers in the home, are we really talking about something capable of churning out a piece of precisely machined hardened steel? Precision engineered is a given if the medium is readily workable, but a cheap machine for the home capable of performing precision machining on a piece of hardened billet? Seems to me any device capable of such work is going to cost a whole lost more (and produce a product a lot less durable, since the steel wouldn't be hammer forged) than just buying a traditionally manufactured firearm.

If there's something I'm missing, fill me in.

 

[Sterling]

Here's something that I'll freely admit to ignorance of ... when we're talking about 3D printers in the home, are we really talking about something capable of churning out a piece of precisely machined hardened steel? Precision engineered is a given if the medium is readily workable, but a cheap machine for the home capable of performing precision machining on a piece of hardened billet? Seems to me any device capable of such work is going to cost a whole lost more (and produce a product a lot less durable, since the steel wouldn't be hammer forged) than just buying a traditionally manufactured firearm.

If there's something I'm missing, fill me in.

We aren't talking top of the line weapons, we're talking cheap and readily available. This entire project doesn't mean these weapons will hold up for more than a few magazines. Plastics and ceramics have come a long way, but in no way will they hold their full capabilities.

Besides, firearms aren't all strictly gunpowder driven. There are quite a few air and spring driven rifles used. The higher tier and more expensive air rifles can even be used on big game like elephants and tigers.

 

[FAST6191]

Here's something that I'll freely admit to ignorance of ... when we're talking about 3D printers in the home, are we really talking about something capable of churning out a piece of precisely machined hardened steel? Precision engineered is a given if the medium is readily workable, but a cheap machine for the home capable of performing precision machining on a piece of hardened billet? Seems to me any device capable of such work is going to cost a whole lost more (and produce a product a lot less durable, since the steel wouldn't be hammer forged) than just buying a traditionally manufactured firearm.

If there's something I'm missing, fill me in.

Laser sintering and other rapid fabrication technologies can get up there with (and for the really fancy stuff beyond) more traditional hand and dedicated forging techniques (other than the CNC probably being able to get a better finish there is no difference between a manual lathe and a CNC one)- the only real problem with such technologies is expense for materials (although powder sintering can leave less waste than traditional methods), energy required, time (not much but thousands an hour becomes tens an hour or one per ten hours easily enough) and such which tends to preclude using them for mass manufacture. Now as it stands finishing will probably still want to be done which might lend itself to wanting weaponsmith skills but given the sort of mods I have seen for automatic fire modifications which are done by complete morons (similar to how proper chemistry is hard but cooking drugs just involves following a checklist) that is probably not such a big ask/puts it in line with making a model aeroplane. Entry prices for those machines is above that of the reprap and makerbot stuff (which I agree do not have a chance at making a weapon I would fire) but it is certainly not outside standard machine shop type prices- for about the price of a new car I could sort you out a serious shop for this sort of thing ( http://www.shopbottools.com/ and poke around some of the laser tools on Chinese tat sites).

On the matter at hand guns are great fun and I encourage everybody that wants to have a go to spend some time down a range if they can and to get trained up. Home defence and personal defence is an interesting subject and one I find quite laughable really- assuming you have enough time to keep trained up with your weapon being able to either sweep and clear** your house* or draw and drop an attacker would be beyond the average person from what I have seen (range time tends not to overcome mental blocks). Winging someone and expecting them to drop if they are off their head, panicking or otherwise trained or intent on hurting you is a losing bet most of the time as well.
*I know strictly speaking it would be to ensure a better attempt at an exit.

**without containment of the location, by yourself (a proper breach and clear of a standard room really wants three people or for a building enough people to split up to cover more places quickly), without body armour, without flashbangs/smoke, if you have a shotgun then without something that suited for close quarters, without blowing away someone through the wall (granted the predilection for .45 ACP probably takes care of most of that) and without training in the lot (most armed response people and other people that reasonably have to count it among a skill they have available will drill building clearance to an insane degree- several showers later and they still stink of flashbangs and/or cordite). If you have to escort someone out as well that changes a lot too although that is probably not the scenario I described.

Gun control- for my money it comes down to probabilities and efficacy of weapons (stuff like automatic machine pistols reducing the barrier to causing mass casualties down somewhat as well as not being a precision tool) which then opens up endless debate.

As for the law here that would probably be one of the more interesting weapons cases I have seen in a while- homemade guns are often fairly legal in many places mainly because they are terrible but this could easily make a professional grade weapon.

 

[431unknown]

Here's something that I'll freely admit to ignorance of ... when we're talking about 3D printers in the home, are we really talking about something capable of churning out a piece of precisely machined hardened steel? Precision engineered is a given if the medium is readily workable, but a cheap machine for the home capable of performing precision machining on a piece of hardened billet? Seems to me any device capable of such work is going to cost a whole lost more (and produce a product a lot less durable, since the steel wouldn't be hammer forged) than just buying a traditionally manufactured firearm.

If there's something I'm missing, fill me in.

We aren't talking top of the line weapons, we're talking cheap and readily available. This entire project doesn't mean these weapons will hold up for more than a few magazines. Plastics and ceramics have come a long way, but in no way will they hold their full capabilities.

Besides, firearms aren't all strictly gunpowder driven. There are quite a few air and spring driven rifles used. The higher tier and more expensive air rifles can even be used on big game like elephants and tigers.

I've seen some YouTube vids of 50cal air guns taking down bull moose. I know personally that Gamo makes a few air guns that can travel as fast as a 22 when their pba ammo is used and market them as being able to take down wild boars.

 

[pasc]

This should be stopped immediately! The United States already has a huge gun problem. Every day/night there's a new murder in the news and that's just the five county area I live in. Being a person who survived a armed home invasion, I can say from experience that allowing people to just print guns willy-nilly is a horrid idea.

I'll give you a hint: Guns never were the problem.

However they are a big part of it.

Like a teacher of mine once said:

"I have no respect of people who kill with guns, it doesn't take a genius and is simple as it gets. Stabbing someone with a knife would take guts, thats why using a gun is so simple, just point and pull a trigger - a five year old could do it"

A harsh quote, but it contains the truth.

 

[yuyuyup]

Not putting this link (in Spanish but subtitled) up to derail the thread any further, but this is the biggest fucken load of shit i have every heard. While I don't think this current project the thread is about should happen it will eventually. We are never going to be able to round up all the sickos in the world and we are never going to be able to totally control the illegal acquirement of firearms not matter what legislation is put in place. All that shit does is make it harder for people to legally get a gun that are legally allowed too and pass all the background checks.

Now back to the link. That shit took place under a Democrats watch perhaps maybe since they are so pro gun control they should have destroyed the guns instead of letting them get into the wrong hands. I know whats coming next " Thats not Obamas fault." "Eric Holder knew nothing." BULLSHIT. Same way I call BULLSHIT on Bush knowing that there were no WMDs in Iraq. Just fess up and say yeah we fucked up.

Again yes this should not happen there are already too many people that own a gun that shouldn't, be it legally obtained or not.



I have a nice little .22 with a red dot sight for just this purpose I don't intend to kill anybody which is why I bought this specific gun set up this specific way.

OK I figured someone would mention the Fast and Furious scandal. Basically, you can't say one god damn thing about it until you read the CNN/Fortune Magazine investigation, which makes the issue JUST A TAD BIT more complex than the dipshit republican NRA gun nuts would have you believe. So please read this before responding.

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/

NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER trust a single word a Repub politician has to say. Their interests lie in sapping as much money as possible for their lobbyist donors so they can become a lobbyist themselves and perpetuate the madness.

I guarantee the NRA will lobby to stop 3D printers. How the heck can they sell guns if you can just print one off? Here is my prediction: either 3D printers will become illegal due to the NRA lobbying efforts, or the NRA/gun creators will all just go out of business. Do you think they are going to go out without a fight?

I wonder if being able to print a gun WOULD make the world safer? I mean, criminals can already legally buy whatever they want with zero background checks, even if they are on a terrorist watchlist. Maybe with the NRA out of business, that would somehow factor in the lessening of gun glorification, thus making them less proliferated and stockpiled. Or maybe things will be worse. Who knows

 

[MelodieOctavia]

This should be stopped immediately! The United States already has a huge gun problem. Every day/night there's a new murder in the news and that's just the five county area I live in. Being a person who survived a armed home invasion, I can say from experience that allowing people to just print guns willy-nilly is a horrid idea.

I'll give you a hint: Guns never were the problem.

However they are a big part of it.

Like a teacher of mine once said:

"I have no respect of people who kill with guns, it doesn't take a genius and is simple as it gets. Stabbing someone with a knife would take guts, thats why using a gun is so simple, just point and pull a trigger - a five year old could do it"

A harsh quote, but it contains the truth.

Has that teacher of yours had to make the decision whether or not to kill a man while on the good side of a gun? Did he tell you that? Because I can promise you, it's not as easy as either of you think, even if it's for self defense.

 

[Sterling]

Has that teacher of yours had to make the decision whether or not to kill a man while on the good side of a gun? Did he tell you that? Because I can promise you, it's not as easy as either of you think, even if it's for self defense.

I could tell you that even though I've never come to such a situation. I have a hard time watching war movies or playing hyper realistic shooting games because of the mere idea. Watching the life leave someone's eyes is the worst thing. Guns and other weapons only serve to expedite the process. They're all terrible even if they're necessary at times. One of the ten pledges I've made in my life is to never intentionally kill someone I'm staring at down the barrel of a gun.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

I don't see too much of an issue with gun control. Most gun-related crimes are done with unregistered and illegal weapons. Most legal firearm carriers aren't exactly gangbangers and muggers, mostly just enthusiasts or people who want peace of mind.

However I don't think I can support a project like that. Going through a set of standards to get a firearm is one thing. It's a process and is designed to make sure someone who carries a firearm doesn't use it irresponsibly. Being able to obtain a firearm through simply buying a 3D printer, let alone producing them in mass quantities, is really unsafe. And 3D printing is a really cool technology that opens up so many possibilities, it really shouldn't be stunted by a project like this.

 

[Veho]

I'll worry about printed guns when consumer-range 3D printers reach a level of quality that makes them possible. Right now, let's be more concerned about this worrying, already existent tech that allows anyone to make working guns in their own home: a hacksaw and a drill.

$5 at your local hardware store.
Bullets sold separately.​

I don't think any sort of ban or measure would prevent people from getting their hands on guns if they really really wanted to.

 

[yuyuyup]

Those that spout off about how "MOST GUN CRIMES ARE DONE WITH ILLEGALLY PURCHASED FIREARMS" have zero comprehension of "straw purchasing," where someone legally buys tons of guns and directly sells them. But of course, this is obviously easily overlooked because it's easier to buy into redneck NRA propaganda rather than consider any nuance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase

 

[Sterling]

Those that spout off about how "MOST GUN CRIMES ARE DONE WITH ILLEGALLY PURCHASED FIREARMS" have zero comprehension of "straw purchasing," where someone legally buys tons of guns and directly sells them. But of course, this is obviously easily overlooked because it's easier to buy into redneck NRA propaganda rather than consider any nuance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase

I think you're missing the part where legally acquired firearms are also the only avenue for law abiding citizens. Criminals can get them in whatever way they want to, but the average citizen can only get them however the law allows. Which is why I'm fully against any sort of ban. Stricter regulations may be necessary, but outright banning them, or over regulation won't do a lick of good. The point when it becomes easier to obtain illegal weapons, the faster the fan will spin for the incoming shit.

 

[yuyuyup]

Those that spout off about how "MOST GUN CRIMES ARE DONE WITH ILLEGALLY PURCHASED FIREARMS" have zero comprehension of "straw purchasing," where someone legally buys tons of guns and directly sells them. But of course, this is obviously easily overlooked because it's easier to buy into redneck NRA propaganda rather than consider any nuance. http://en.wikipedia..../Straw_purchase

I think you're missing the part where legally acquired firearms are also the only avenue for law abiding citizens. Criminals can get them in whatever way they want to, but the average citizen can only get them however the law allows. Which is why I'm fully against any sort of ban. Stricter regulations may be necessary, but outright banning them, or over regulation won't do a lick of good. The point when it becomes easier to obtain illegal weapons, the faster the fan will spin for the incoming shit.

Do you realize how incredibly easy it is for any person to walk into a gun show and walk out with as many guns as they want with ZERO background check ? Straw purchasers go into gun stores and buy hundreds and hundreds of guns, high powered sniper rifles, etc and sell the whole bulk purchase to one criminal that will do the dirty work. They go from being a law abiding citizen purchaser to an illegal arms dealer instantly. Legal guns become illegal, and you're worried about over regulating in this insane system ? You remember the Gabby Giffords shooting, with the THIRTY ROUND CLIPS ? Do we REALLY need to keep 30 round clips legal ? There is ZERO pushback from so-called liberals. Look at gun laws under the Obama administration. Allow me to directly quote President Obama:

"In this country, we have a strong tradition of gun ownership that's handed from generation to generation. Hunting and shooting are part of our national heritage. And, in fact, my administration has not curtailed the rights of gun owners -- it has expanded them, including allowing people to carry their guns in national parks and wildlife refuges."

So where's the pushback ? WHERE are the bans ? Nobody is talking about banning a god damn thing.

 

[pasc]

Has that teacher of yours had to make the decision whether or not to kill a man while on the good side of a gun? Did he tell you that? Because I can promise you, it's not as easy as either of you think, even if it's for self defense.

Nope, he was saying this on a note, like an introduction to the film Bowling for Columbine, he was referring to killers in general, no need to make a statement on a "decision" whether to fire a gun or not.

Why killers decide to "kill" is beyond our minds anyways.

A gun should only be fired in order to prevent crimes.... We are talking about crimes that are commited BECAUSE of available guns.

Surely it is true that any other weapon is capable of killing aswell, a gun is just the most well known and effective way to kill.

 

[MelodieOctavia]

Has that teacher of yours had to make the decision whether or not to kill a man while on the good side of a gun? Did he tell you that? Because I can promise you, it's not as easy as either of you think, even if it's for self defense.

Nope, he was saying this on a note, like an introduction to the film Bowling for Columbine, he was referring to killers in general, no need to make a statement on a "decision" whether to fire a gun or not.

Why killers decide to "kill" is beyond our minds anyways.

A gun should only be fired in order to prevent crimes.... We are talking about crimes that are commited BECAUSE of available guns.

Surely it is true that any other weapon is capable of killing aswell, a gun is just the most well known and effective way to kill.

What I was trying to get at, is yes, it's easy to pull the trigger on a gun. A simple mechanical force applied to a lever to release the hammer which in turn strikes the primer, ejecting the projectile of choice out of the barrel. THAT is the easy part. The difficulty of making the active decision to kill a fellow human being is in the mind of the individual, and implying you have knowledge of how "easy" it is, is just as ignorant as saying killing isn't in human nature, especially if you have no experience of committing the act yourself.