Homebrew RetroArch - A new multi-system emulator

[the_randomizer]

While this is cool, I don't honestly see the appeal.

All these emulators already exist on the wii independently, and many of them in much better GUIs like VBAGX, SNES9XGX, FCEUGX. And even then it doesn't support all available emulators so you still need other emulators to be accessed like Wii64, WiiSX, Mame, Wiirtual Boy, etc. So until there is the true all in one emulator, I just don't see how this is all that greater than what we already have.

Personally I like to have channels dedicated for each kind of emulator. I'm sure some will find value in this, but unless they find away to put the best form of each emulator into this, as well as incorporate all systems that are missed, I just don't think this is anything all that special. But I do see it as progress, and certainly appreciate the kind of coding necessary to make this happen. But for now I'll stick to my individual emulators.

Just wanted to point out a couple of things on what makes this a nice contribution to the emulation scene:

Snes9x Next, notable in the fact that unlike the alternative, it uses no frameskipping, which can have negative effects on audio/video speed and causes many games to run choppily (such as Final Fantasy 6 or Kirby's Dreamland 3) in large areas.

VBA Next, numerous optimizations (also no frameskipping) to the core and runs many games faster than the alternative. In the next version, Mother 3 will run full speed inside/outside battles, a game that had crackling audio and framerate issues in battle, making timing during attacks impossible.

FBA -Capcom CSP1/CSP2 arcade games, something many thought to be impossible due to the so-called "underpowered" Wii CPU, but is now up and running against all odds. The Wii CPU is much more powerful than originally thought.

You don't have to install countless forwarder channels or have to worry about creating emulator-specific folders for ROM files or saves, you can have them all in one folder if you wanted to. Plus you can switch emulators on the fly without exiting the emulator.

But each to his own, you stated why you felt this way, but for the record, RetroArch can't have a fancy GUI due to the fact it's using every available MB or memory the console has, so there's little elbow room for a nice GUI. Perhaps if someone can write one without sacrificing anything major, it's possible.

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

All these emulators already exist on the wii independently, and many of them in much better GUIs like VBAGX, SNES9XGX, FCEUGX.

If you can't notice the numerous ways the performance (in both video and audio terms) in VBA Next/SNES9x Next/FCEUmm outclasses that in VBAGX, SNES9x GX and FCEU GX, then I guess this isn't for you. I for one have always been bothered by (at the very least) the skippy audio in those ports - SNES9x GX has skippy audio numerous times in Seiken Densetsu 3 when it switches between resolutions (the resolution toggling of which BTW is a 'logic' mistake to begin with in my book). RetroArch Wii actually uses a syncing system where it not only syncs on video, but also syncs on audio - this might sound like a paradox but it isn't - since it dynamically throttles the audio input rate control whenever one of the two is about to get out of sync - leading to almost perfect V-sync and audio. I know ekeeke had to struggle a lot to get audio/video sync correctly with Genesis Plus GX and so did we. Without wanting to toot my own horn, Genesis Plus GX gets it right (with its own model) and so does RetroArch (with our own model). I know for a fact that those three emulator ports you mentioned never got it right. If you think that is less important than some fluffy GUI - then IMO, you should re-evaluate what it is you're looking for in an emulator/game project. That's not me crapping on another project - that's stating reality.

As soon as something starts frameskipping, I turn it off. As soon as audio starts to skip, I turn it off. A 'good' emulator port is not one where we've got some bloated GUI going on, but one where I can't distinguish between the system it's emulating and the actual emulator running on the host system. As soon as that illusion is shattered, it's Game Over as far as I'm concerned.

I don't care about a GUI (especially not the kind seen in SNES9x GX to be honest - I consider it a hindrance to getting my ROM to run to be honest with you) and I especially don't care about it on a a system that has about as much RAM as a mainstream PC back in the year 1999. Something being 'kid friendly' and 'wife friendly' is none of my concern either - I didn't make it for those. However, the source is available, and I have a fairly relaxed approach to derivative works - so people who want to build graphical frills GUIs around it are invited to do so - however, I warn them that they might not like the fight against available RAM they will inevitably have to wage once they start porting FBA/MAME.

Anyway, the Wii is but a small part in RetroArch's overall plans - it exists because at one point we took some time off and decided to have some fun making a port to Wii. There will be more systems that RetroArch gets ported to and the fact they will all receive the very same emulator cores that are known to run reliably and perform well will be a boon from the perspective of developers who don't want to reinvent the (coding) wheel every time or feel the need to write boilerplate frontend/backend code for every system out there.

This is the overall plan for RetroArch - me and the guys creating it didnt' make it just so that we can enter into turf wars with fellow emulator authors in the respective scenes - we have a helicopter overview of what we want to achieve, and the Wii is but one part of that plan.

This is about providing a portable emulator/game base that can be ported across every console/platform seamlessly and easily. This is about making sure no emulator/game port ever gets out of date again. This is about making sure that emulator authors and porters can spend time on important things to do with core emulation/speed improvements instead of wasting their time with rewriting boilerplate backend code for the system they want to target. It's as much about enabling developers as it is users.

I'd say those are more important goals than 'is the GUI shiny or not?'.

 

[the_randomizer]

All these emulators already exist on the wii independently, and many of them in much better GUIs like VBAGX, SNES9XGX, FCEUGX.

If you can't notice the numerous ways the performance (in both video and audio terms) in VBA Next/SNES9x Next/FCEUmm outclasses that in VBAGX, SNES9x GX and FCEU GX, then I guess this isn't for you. I for one have always been bothered by (at the very least) the skippy audio in those ports - SNES9x GX has skippy audio numerous times in Seiken Densetsu 3 when it switches between resolutions (the resolution toggling of which BTW is a 'logic' mistake to begin with in my book). RetroArch Wii actually uses a syncing system where it not only syncs on video, but also syncs on audio - this might sound like a paradox but it isn't - since it dynamically throttles the audio input rate control whenever one of the two is about to get out of sync - leading to almost perfect V-sync and audio. I know ekeeke had to struggle a lot to get audio/video sync correctly with Genesis Plus GX and so did we. Without wanting to toot my own horn, Genesis Plus GX gets it right (with its own model) and so does RetroArch (with our own model). I know for a fact that those three emulators you mentioned never got it right. If you think that is less important than some fluffy GUI - then IMO, you should re-evaluate what it is you're looking for in an emulator/game project. That's not me crapping on another project - that's stating reality.

As soon as something starts frameskipping, I turn it off. As soon as audio starts to skip, I turn it off. A 'good' emulator port is not one where we've got some bloated GUI going on, but one where I can't distinguish between the system it's emulating and the actual emulator running on the host system. As soon as that illusion is shattered, it's Game Over as far as I'm concerned.

I don't care about a GUI (especially not the kind seen in SNES9x GX to be honest - I consider it a hindrance to getting my ROM to run to be honest with you) and I especially don't care about it on a a system that has about as much RAM as a mainstream PC back in the year 1999. Something being 'kid friendly' and 'wife friendly' is none of my concern either - I didn't make it for those. However, the source is available, and I have a fairly relaxed approach to derivative works - so people who want to build graphical frills GUIs around it are invited to do so - however, I warn them that they might not like the fight against available RAM they will inevitably have to wage once they start porting FBA/MAME.

Anyway, the Wii is but a small part in RetroArch's overall plans - it exists because at one point we took some time off and decided to have some fun making a port to Wii. There will be more systems that RetroArch gets ported to and the fact they will all receive the very same emulator cores that are known to run reliably and perform well will be a boon from the perspective of developers who don't want to reinvent the (coding) wheel every time or feel the need to write boilerplate frontend/backend code for every system out there.

This is the overall plan for RetroArch - me and the guys creating it didnt' make it just so that we can enter into turf wars with fellow emulator authors in the respective scenes - we have a helicopter overview of what we want to imagine, and the Wii is but one part of that plan.

Agreed with everything you said; if people don't like emulators for one reason or another, they can seek an alternative; they're not forced to use it. But I for one can see that this has a lot of potential to be one of, if not the best 16/32-bit console emulator for the Wii. Being thoroughly familiar with emulators and how they work (reverse engineering, porting code, converting code written for x86/64 CPU architecture to PPC/IBM architecture, etc), I realize that a lot of work must be done. For those reasons I have a lot respect for emulator coders and computer programmers....plus it's my college major, so that might have something to do with it.

 

[VatoLoco]

Does RetroArch for Wii support booting with command-line arguments? It'd be neat if it did, so that when you launch it, you could pass it a rom file path and the name of a core(or auto determine the core needed) so that homebrew loaders like Postloader, Wiiflow, etc. can launch the roms directly. That way you wouldn't have to worry about people complaining about covers and whatnot, when other programs take care of that.

i asked the same thing. looks like it'll be added =)

@the RetroArch team:
love the project=)

now forgive my naivety as im definitely no coder, but would it be possible to add some sort of argv protocol to all the cores, so that individual games could be direct booted (via postLoader, and if i recall correctly usbloaderGX and wiiflow).

as it is, when i try to boot a game directly (through postLoader's emulator plugin option) it takes me to the emulator instead of booting the game (only tried with the FBA core).

That is very possible. In fact, I believe the PS3 port already supports this through MultiMan. I'll look into adding it for the next release.

 

[OriginalHamster]

Quite off topic but LibretroRetroArch posts makes me feel excited about Wii U having another elegant architecture that can be maximized to get really impressive looking games. Nintendo always manage to get the max of its system even when they are not all brute force.

 

[MushGuy]

I have a question for LibretroRetroArch: Is it possible to change the save format of the VBA core from .srm to raw .sav format? I find it really weird that it uses .srm for GBA. How am I supposed to use my emulation saves with this emulator?

 

[the_randomizer]

I have a question for LibretroRetroArch: Is it possible to change the save format of the VBA core from .srm to raw .sav format? I find it really weird that it uses .srm for GBA. How am I supposed to use my emulation saves with this emulator?

That is unusual, it's likely a bug, but I'm sure it can be fixed.

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

I have a question for LibretroRetroArch: Is it possible to change the save format of the VBA core from .srm to raw .sav format? I find it really weird that it uses .srm for GBA. How am I supposed to use my emulation saves with this emulator?

.srm is just an extension that is currently being used as the 'save RAM' extension for every emulator core - however, it's still the same save format underneath - it's just named differently.

So just renaming your .sav file (SRAM) to .srm for now should do the trick.

 

[the_randomizer]

Even if Windows warns you about changing file extensions, disregard it, nothing bad happens.

 

[kylster]

@LibretroRetroArch: I just want to say thank you for this emulator it works wonders and "yes" I'm still playing (and currently is one of my newest favorite titles now) Star Ocean English Translated.

Could you however answer a few of my questions

Are you adding a cheats system? (self-contained like jnes(nes emulator) or manuel-input)?
Do you have plans for porting to WP7 or possibly WP8? (yes this is out of topic but wow I've been wondering this).....

 

[LibretroRetroArc]

@LibretroRetroArch: I just want to say thank you for this emulator it works wonders and "yes" I'm still playing (and currently is one of my newest favorite titles now) Star Ocean English Translated.

Could you however answer a few of my questions

Are you adding a cheats system? (self-contained like jnes(nes emulator) or manuel-input)?
Do you have plans for porting to WP7 or possibly WP8? (yes this is out of topic but wow I've been wondering this).....

Cheats seem to be heavily requested - cheats are currently not implemented for the vast majority of libretro ports but that could change. The current cheat support that is there in the RetroArch code right now is all XML-based (not compiled in for the console ports) and I don't want to go down that route regardless - so it would definitely have to be made more generic than that.

With regard to WP7/WP8 Right now I can only port to devices that I own. An Android port and possibly a PSP port are in the running for a 0.9.8 release.

While I won't accept monetary donations (and never will), I do accept gifts though that are project-related. So, anybody sending me a phone/device of this nature for the purpose of having RetroArch on it will get their wish granted.

 

[VatoLoco]

...With regard to WP7/WP8 Right now I can only port to devices that I own. An Android port and possibly a PSP port are in the running for a 0.9.8 release.

That would be mighty cool!

 

[starwarsfan541]

Any chance of a zinc port?

Edit: Would love to see some Tekken on the wii.

 

[kylster]

@LibretroRetroArch: I just want to say thank you for this emulator it works wonders and "yes" I'm still playing (and currently is one of my newest favorite titles now) Star Ocean English Translated.

Could you however answer a few of my questions

Are you adding a cheats system? (self-contained like jnes(nes emulator) or manuel-input)?
Do you have plans for porting to WP7 or possibly WP8? (yes this is out of topic but wow I've been wondering this).....

Cheats seem to be heavily requested - cheats are currently not implemented for the vast majority of libretro ports but that could change. The current cheat support that is there in the RetroArch code right now is all XML-based (not compiled in for the console ports) and I don't want to go down that route regardless - so it would definitely have to be made more generic than that.

With regard to WP7/WP8 Right now I can only port to devices that I own. An Android port and possibly a PSP port are in the running for a 0.9.8 release.

While I won't accept monetary donations (and never will), I do accept gifts though that are project-related. So, anybody sending me a phone/device of this nature for the purpose of having RetroArch on it will get their wish granted.

So are cheats easy to add then? Is there a guide?
Also I'll have a phone for you in about 4 months if that's not too long; I leave for basic on Jan 1st & will just end up getting a newer model WP; of course it's not a donation I just wont have any need for it but it is a fully unlocked/jailbroken HD7s (AT&T) with Root access. That's just something to think about if you decide to really take on the challenge. So I'll ask you again at a later date if you still want the phone

 

[duffmmann]

Hey thanks for informing me of my misunderstanding guys. I hadn't used the multiemulator yet, didn't realize the improvements some emulators actually had and the full Doom support is awesome. Will definitely check it out afterall. Still I would love for it to incorporate all other major emulators that aren't included.

 

[kylster]

duffmmann throw me a cold one while we play multiplayer in SMB

FULL doom support but how?

Dang another edit lol... Does anyone got a spiffy channel for this?

 

[the_randomizer]

Hey thanks for informing me of my misunderstanding guys. I hadn't used the multiemulator yet, didn't realize the improvements some emulators actually had and the full Doom support is awesome. Will definitely check it out afterall. Still I would love for it to incorporate all other major emulators that aren't included.

Don't worry about it

 

[AppleCrow]

I'm disappointed...
If I follow the documentation, By using FBA full core, roms over 10+mb might crash at load...
I'm able to launch KOF96 and ProGear with this core, which normally might crash emulator.

As bug report:
Power Instinct gfx are glitched.

 

[Kypiyo]

Hello, last night i did try again the emulator with a GC controller and component cables, set the TV screen from the Wii Menu to 480p. The aparectemente to lag disappeared.

I'm not saying there are not people who have lag problems with their TVs, but a question in my ignorance:

But in cases where you connect a wireless controller causes lag, but only with the wiimote no suffers lag, are you sure that this are a tv problem, and not a problem on the emulator?

The response time of a TVs can be modified to connect to wiimote a wireless gamepad? It seems illogical...

 

[quepaso]

I use a CC Pro and a Wii Remote Plus all OEM from nintendo, 0 lag, everything plays flawlessly. Playing a HDTV on game mode.

I still cannot get a single neo geo game to load, it always errors loading the rom and very quickly. I did a .dat from 2.96 FBA and 2.97, the roms work flawlessly in the PC app of the same version, just wont work in the emulator. CPS1/2 work fine, except SF2.zip does not load, but SF2HF does. CPS2 i tried out Xmen COTA, SSF2T, and more, no issues. I am very confused on what else to try, should i just re-download the emu and wipe the old data and start fresh?