Blizzard and Valve trading blows over DotA name

[FAST6191]

Just thought I would appear to say there is a rather large difference between copyright (the right afforded to every published work that means only the copyright holder can distribute it for so many years (although in practice this limit keeps being extended)) and trademark (in this case an application made to a place, usually upheld by a government or regional body of some form, for a name/likeness of a brand/service/product that has to be maintained but can last indefinitely, there is also the lesser form that just allows you to say trademark that acts along similar lines to copyright- anybody/automatic but lesser abilities).

Personally I would consider it a dick move on the part of Valve but although my knowledge of US trademark law is at best that of a layman (it varies a slight bit from European trademark law and that is enough to trap you if you are not careful) it would appear to be a case of "should have moved faster" on the parts of others on the letter of the law front.

 

[gloweyjoey]

I am very sorry, I misread.

Honestly it would be absurd for ANYONE to to register the name. Blizzard is NOT trying to copyright the name with their game Blizzard DotA. They however just want to use the name and I am sure they would want anyone with the talent and interest to create new mod maps for their RTS games on battle.net with the DotA name.

I think it is also worth mentioning that the people involved in the development of DotA did not do it all together at the same time. ONE guy did it for years(Eul), then another guy took over(Guinsoo), and then another guy took over after him(IceFrog). Now IceFrog is trying to claim DotA(CAKE) as his own, when he has been cut a very sizable slice(DotA Allstars 6.xx+, DotA 2) of in the first place.

Infact they arent trying to copyright it, but their trying to make valve not use Dota as the game name. Or in short their trying to keep it to themselves. Or even shorter. Their trying to copyrights it in their own way.
And i just saw you did quote me earlier. Let me respond on that. Its not MMOBA. Because its not massively. Ur playing with 9 others. Even if they copyright Dota. Games like dota will still be made. They can call themselves Dorfa and still be fine. They copyright the name, not the genre. True its based on a mod, but the fact that the elements is different from RTS is still true. Think of it like FPS and TPS. Same shit, yet different. Dota was used as a term early becasue it was still new and fresh and they really didnt have any better way to describe it than dota when games like dota poppep up.

I will give you the not massive part, but the rest of your statement makes little sense. From reading the article it appears that Blizzard is not trying to make Valve not use the name. Valve is trying to trademark the name, meaning Blizzard and in turn anyone making a custom map, could not use the name. Which is what this guy from blizzard is saying

It just seems a really strange move to us that Valve would go off and try to exclusively trademark the term considering it's something that's been freely available to us and everyone in the Warcraft III community up to this point.

Our contention is that it should continue to be available to Blizzard and to our community.

When games like dota came out they named them LoL and HoN, but especially in the case of the latter, were copies of all-stars.

After reading more articles Guinsoo had countered Valve's claim from the begining aswell, stating he had just as much right(he actually has way more right to it) to the name as IceFrog does, but when Guinsoo made his game, he named it something else.

 

[MasterPenguin]

i'd love to see these 2 giants go head to head and sue each over this i wonder who'd win

Discontinue support for every Blizzard game on Steam and see how much fun it is for them.

Blizzard has no games on Steam. lol. Discontinue the support all they want.

 

[ferofax]

http://www.eurogamer...k-dota-blizzard

To be fair, DotA originated because of WarCraft III, therefor Valve really doesn't have the right to be using the name when they never published the game or even had any involvement in the original game. On the other hand, Blizzard has yet to develop an engine that could be used for DotA games aside from the StarCraft II engine, which is capable of doing quite a lot in the right hands and as such Blizzard has been developing a mod for SC2 that is a DotA game. Unfortunately neither company can really copyright a universal term that is used to describe a type of game style.

Actually, either one can. It just so happens that Valve got its feet wedged between the door right now and means to go all the way in. It's not about fair use/fair rights, it's all about who stakes what first. they could give whatever reason they want to justify the patent, or maybe even not give any, but in the end if it's patented then by law it's yours. it's like in the gold rush eras, you found the gold first, you patent it first if you want claims to that land.

we can frown upon it all we want, but in the end the gamers want it free but the businessmen want it trademarked. ALWAYS.

 

[DarkStriker]

I will give you the not massive part, but the rest of your statement makes little sense. From reading the article it appears that Blizzard is not trying to make Valve not use the name. Valve is trying to trademark the name, meaning Blizzard and in turn anyone making a custom map, could not use the name. Which is what this guy from blizzard is saying

When games like dota came out they named them LoL and HoN, but especially in the case of the latter, were copies of all-stars.

After reading more articles Guinsoo had countered Valve's claim from the begining aswell, stating he had just as much right(he actually has way more right to it) to the name as IceFrog does, but when Guinsoo made his game, he named it something else.

As far as i know. Dota doesnt cost money, and its free. (Warcraft 3 cost, but thats not dota) So i dont really see how watermark will really affect dota. Highly doubt Valve will even care since IceFrog is still updating and owns DotA. The point is the trademark or whatever ur saying wont affect DotA at all seeing how IceFrog is still the owner of the DotA map from WC3.

What your saying is simply all games are WoW clone. If you insist so much that LoL(Not HoN) are a copy, then DotA is a complete rip off and copy of the custom map Aeon of Strife from SC. Might as well say WoW is a clone of of that and then the list goes on. Because CoD is obviously a clone of Battlefield. He obviously named it something else because he wanted it to be something new. He didnt want it to be the old DotA. If he did, then half the champion on LoL should have been a clear rip off from DotA, which it isnt. Hes going for a new approach.
More ignorance plox

 

[Zerosuit connor]

i'd love to see these 2 giants go head to head and sue each over this i wonder who'd win

Blizzard.

 

[Ultralex]

Valve just wants to trademark Dota, not Defense of the Ancients

 

[gloweyjoey]

I will give you the not massive part, but the rest of your statement makes little sense. From reading the article it appears that Blizzard is not trying to make Valve not use the name. Valve is trying to trademark the name, meaning Blizzard and in turn anyone making a custom map, could not use the name. Which is what this guy from blizzard is saying

When games like dota came out they named them LoL and HoN, but especially in the case of the latter, were copies of all-stars.

After reading more articles Guinsoo had countered Valve's claim from the begining aswell, stating he had just as much right(he actually has way more right to it) to the name as IceFrog does, but when Guinsoo made his game, he named it something else.

As far as i know. Dota doesnt cost money, and its free. (Warcraft 3 cost, but thats not dota)So i dont really see how watermark will really affect dota.
Highly doubt Valve will even care since IceFrog is still updating and owns DotA. The point is the trademark or whatever ur saying wont affect DotA at all seeing how IceFrog is still the owner of the DotA map from WC3.

What your saying is simply all games are WoW clone. If you insist so much that LoL(Not HoN) are a copy, then DotA is a complete rip off and copy of the custom map Aeon of Strife from SC. Might as well say WoW is a clone of of that and then the list goes on. Because CoD is obviously a clone of Battlefield. He obviously named it something else because he wanted it to be something new. He didnt want it to be the old DotA. If he did, then half the champion on LoL should have been a clear rip off from DotA, which it isnt. Hes going for a new approach.
More ignorance plox

What does WoW have anything to do with this? WoW is a completely differnt type of game. I was insisting so much that HoN was a copy(same heroes and abilities and items), not so much LoL.

I also mentioned that the original DotA created by Eul was inspired by the Starcraft map Aeon of Strife in a previous post. I also mentioned how we used to call DotA a AOS type game on battle.net.

Yes DotA is free and IT SHOULD REMAIN SO. Trademarking the name WILL MAKE THE GAME NOT FREE.

Valve’s application for the trademark is not the only one. Like Blizzard, there are others that feel one company shouldn’t benefit from all the hard work of fans. Riot Games’ Steve “Guinsoo” Feak and Steve “Pendragon” Mescon filed countered trademarks soon after Valve’s initial filing in 2010. These two have just as much claim to the trademark as the other two combatants. One created the most popular version of the mod, while the other created the website for DotA players. Neither are looking to profit from the trademark. In an interview with PC Gamer in 2010 Mescon stated

"I think the best-case scenario would be that nobody owns the trademark to the DotA name. But if Valve were to ultimately gain the rights, I hope that they would abandon the trademark and release it to the community to allow them to continue to modify, play and experience DotA for free. That’s what DotA is all about."

Riot’s hit League of Legends is based on the DotA mod, but even with their claims to the trademark they decided to go with another name. Valve could go the same route. By using the DotA name, it does make them look guilty of stealing the “goodwill” and popularity that was created by the mod.
The case is currently pending further review after Valve’s response.

You responses seem to be rather deluded and full of derp.

Anyway, I wonder what Epic MegaGames and Digital Extremes has to say about this, while not having any claim to the name, but someone who actaully knows what they are talking about can correct me if I am wrong, but the custom maps contained sound bits from Unreal, and DotA 2 still uses them aswell.

also, IceFrog doesnt OWN shit. He is trying to claim he owns DotA, when it was actually given to him by someone else. IceFrog is being a greedy little turd that is trying to have his cake and eat it too, but should be grateful for the slice he has.(i know i said this before but it bears repeating)

 

[DSGamer64]

Valve hired the people who made it.

Valve only hired one of the people responsible for deveolping DotA, and DotA had been around for 5 years before he had anything to do with it, so yes it's absurd.

I was talking about Team Fortress and TF2. Not DotA people. Thus what I said..

But as you mentioned, it'd be absurd if it was registered to Valve when only a few people involved are working on it. But as we have seen in the past, it may need some new people for a series or game to go to the next level..

Valve would have to pay royalties to all the people involved in making the original DotA scenario mod for WC3, if they wanted to license the name as their own because I am sure all the guys involved in making the original, would want a slice of IceFrog's pie.

---

 

[gloweyjoey]

Valve hired the people who made it.

Valve only hired one of the people responsible for deveolping DotA, and DotA had been around for 5 years before he had anything to do with it, so yes it's absurd.

I was talking about Team Fortress and TF2. Not DotA people. Thus what I said..

But as you mentioned, it'd be absurd if it was registered to Valve when only a few people involved are working on it. But as we have seen in the past, it may need some new people for a series or game to go to the next level..

Valve would have to pay royalties to all the people involved in making the original DotA scenario mod for WC3, if they wanted to license the name as their own because I am sure all the guys involved in making the original, would want a slice of IceFrog's pie.

Valve is trying to not ever have to pay anyone royalties for the name while making others have to pay them to use the name.

The guy responsible for creating the most popular variant of DotA called DotA Allstars, who is now working with Riot on LoL( which is based on Allstars) countered Valves petition to trademark the name shortly after they filed it. He is claiming he has just as much right to the pie as IceFrog, but the name should not be trademarked and he also would not like to see profit from the name, but rather it remain free to the community

 

[DarkStriker]

What does WoW have anything to do with this? WoW is a completely differnt type of game. I was insisting so much that HoN was a copy(same heroes and abilities and items), not so much LoL.

I also mentioned that the original DotA created by Eul was inspired by the Starcraft map Aeon of Strife in a previous post. I also mentioned how we used to call DotA a AOS type game on battle.net.

Yes DotA is free and IT SHOULD REMAIN SO. Trademarking the name WILL MAKE THE GAME NOT FREE.

Valve’s application for the trademark is not the only one. Like Blizzard, there are others that feel one company shouldn’t benefit from all the hard work of fans. Riot Games’ Steve “Guinsoo” Feak and Steve “Pendragon” Mescon filed countered trademarks soon after Valve’s initial filing in 2010. These two have just as much claim to the trademark as the other two combatants. One created the most popular version of the mod, while the other created the website for DotA players. Neither are looking to profit from the trademark. In an interview with PC Gamer in 2010 Mescon stated

"I think the best-case scenario would be that nobody owns the trademark to the DotA name. But if Valve were to ultimately gain the rights, I hope that they would abandon the trademark and release it to the community to allow them to continue to modify, play and experience DotA for free. That’s what DotA is all about."

Riot’s hit League of Legends is based on the DotA mod, but even with their claims to the trademark they decided to go with another name. Valve could go the same route. By using the DotA name, it does make them look guilty of stealing the “goodwill” and popularity that was created by the mod.
The case is currently pending further review after Valve’s response.

You responses seem to be rather deluded and full of derp.

Anyway, I wonder what Epic MegaGames and Digital Extremes has to say about this, while not having any claim to the name, but someone who actaully knows what they are talking about can correct me if I am wrong, but the custom maps contained sound bits from Unreal, and DotA 2 still uses them aswell.

also, IceFrog doesnt OWN shit. He is trying to claim he owns DotA, when it was actually given to him by someone else. IceFrog is being a greedy little turd that is trying to have his cake and eat it too, but should be grateful for the slice he has.(i know i said this before but it bears repeating)

You cant see that im trying to do a example? Who said wow has to do anything with this. Im setting a example. HoN copying heroes was INTENDED. That you dont seem to get either. And no DotA will not cost a shit even if trademarked. Dota2 however will no matter what even if you like it or not. Hes trying to claim he owns DotA? Infact he owns it right now. I really cant see why Blizzard is whining over Valve trying to get copyrights on Dota. Blizzard is just trying to make money themselves by having people buy WC3 to play DotA. In my eyes their both greedy people. Learn to watch it from different perspective. Their all greedy and the only thing that will satisfy them both is money in their pocket. You have no right to judge someone when they, themselves are it.

 

[gloweyjoey]

You cant see that im trying to do a example? Who said wow has to do anything with this. Im setting a example. HoN copying heroes was INTENDED. That you dont seem to get either. And no DotA will not cost a shit even if trademarked. Dota2 however will no matter what even if you like it or not. Hes trying to claim he owns DotA? Infact he owns it right now. I really cant see why Blizzard is whining over Valve trying to get copyrights on Dota. Blizzard is just trying to make money themselves by having people buy WC3 to play DotA. In my eyes their both greedy people. Learn to watch it from different perspective. Their all greedy and the only thing that will satisfy them both is money in their pocket. You have no right to judge someone when they, themselves are it.

Your example was...retarded...

Of course the copying of heroes, abilities, items, level cap of 25, was of course intended and no one was argueing against that. You don't seem to get that.

Again all I see in your post is "derp derp derp i dont understand what im alking about derp derp derp"

 

[DarkStriker]

Your example was...retarded...

Of course the copying of heroes, abilities, items, level cap of 25, was of course intended and no one was argueing against that. You don't seem to get that.

Again all I see in your post is "derp derp derp i dont understand what im alking about derp derp derp"

Okey.... Because you sound more ignorant by saying nothing back than showing your idiocy by derping.
You insisted that it was a copy, but i said it was intended. Stop derping yourself before trying to derp others. You obviously have no controll over what your writing. Im pretty sure i know what im talking about way more than you. You are also saying becasue their getting copyrights on Dota, games like it will stop coming. Their watermarking a game, not genre. Lets make this clear: DotA will not cost a shit even if Valve won. Get that in your fking small american brain.

 

[FAST6191]

Cool it DarkStriker- it would not be that difficult to argue you do not follow what is going on (for one you are misusing the terms copyright, watermark (which is not really an area of intellectual property in terms of things on the books) and trademark in a discussion revolving entirely around them- some of what you are saying is about as out of place in an intellectual property debate as saying something like "let us play on our sega playstation" would be in more general games discussion).


Although I already went with my reading of the law and if someone called defensive trademark I could well see that as well (although the options when donating a trademark to the public domain are considerably more troublesome than almost any other area of intellectual property) it still strikes me as odd that the companies are heading down this path- certainly most companies will try to own any intellectual property you cook up when working for them up to and including things you cook up on your own time (I have walked out of interviews or "failed gracefully" for companies that tried to do such a thing to me in the past) and I would not be surprised if there were provisions in the employment contracts of those people stating they will allow such things.
I would be interested to see what any EULA and equivalents for starcraft says on the matter of mods and intellectual property and abilities of the parent company (in this case Blizzard)- that it has not come up yet and from what I have seen in the past it is probably heavily in favour of the modder but I have seen odd things in the past in other areas (some of the stuff various social networks have tried with the terms and conditions/terms of service and copyrights of the uploaded content for instance).

Also on a different note (and I should also say my first encounter with DOTA was when I watched it about two weeks ago) there is a rather nice overview of DOTA in all your history
http://www.youtube.c...yourhistory?s=4 (start of the current series).

 

[gloweyjoey]

Your example was...retarded...

Of course the copying of heroes, abilities, items, level cap of 25, was of course intended and no one was argueing against that. You don't seem to get that.

Again all I see in your post is "derp derp derp i dont understand what im alking about derp derp derp"

Okey.... Because you sound more ignorant by saying nothing back than showing your idiocy by derping.
You insisted that it was a copy, but i said it was intended. Stop derping yourself before trying to derp others. You obviously have no controll over what your writing. Im pretty sure i know what im talking about way more than you. You are also saying becasue their getting copyrights on Dota, games like it will stop coming. Their watermarking a game, not genre. Lets make this clear: DotA will not cost a shit even if Valve won. Get that in your fking small american brain.

I insisted they are copies because they are and yes that was intended no one was argueing that, just as dota allstars was a copy of dota and dota a copy off aos, whcih i mentioed before on the first page. I have NEVER said anything about "DOTA LIKE GAMES" not coming out if they trademark the name, HOWEVER if the name is trademarked, legal action can be made against ANYONE that uses the name DOTA. Also, if you actually read my post I made it very clear that they are not trying to trademark a genre but the name, not the name of a genre... read my posts seriously.

 

[Bladexdsl]

i knew this thread would turn into a wowboyz war

 

[CCNaru]

fuck blizzard now their cash cow WoW is declining they want to jump ship and try to touch our glorious neckbeard lord Gaben and they'll get shit on

 

[gloweyjoey]

WoW has NOTHING to do with this situation...

 

[Guild McCommunist]

fuck blizzard now their cash cow WoW is declining they want to jump ship and try to touch our glorious neckbeard lord Gaben and they'll get shit on

Well Blizzard also ones like one of the most popular RTS games in history (Starcraft) and are making a sequel to practically the dungeon crawler of dungeon crawlers (Diablo III). They'll be staying around for a while and people won't be happy if they disappear.

 

[Deleted User]

fuck blizzard now their cash cow WoW is declining they want to jump ship and try to touch our glorious neckbeard lord Gaben and they'll get shit on

Well Blizzard also ones like one of the most popular RTS games in history (Starcraft) and are making a sequel to practically the dungeon crawler of dungeon crawlers (Diablo III). They'll be staying around for a while and people won't be happy if they disappear.

Sadly thats true, I was a big WoW fan untill the last expansion that ruined the game, but I cant not have my SC and Diablo 3.