Blizzard and Valve trading blows over DotA name

[DSGamer64]

Blizzard game design boss Rob Pardo thinks that Valve's attempt to trademark DOTA "doesn't seem the right thing to do".

Pardo told Eurogamer that Blizzard was confused by Valve's move and believes it has the right to use the term in the name of its free StarCraft II mod, Blizzard DOTA, announced at BlizzCon today.

DOTA refers to the hugely popular online gametype born of the famous Warcraft III mod, Defence of the Ancients. Valve is currently developing DOTA 2 for its Source engine after employing some of the DOTA mod development community. Superannuation discovered that Valve had filed a trademark registration for DOTA earlier this year.

"To us, that means that you're really taking it away from the Blizzard and Warcraft III community and that just doesn't seem the right thing to do," said Pardo, Blizzard's executive vice president of game design.
Pardo described his reaction to the move as "a little bit of confusion, to be honest. Certainly, DOTA came out of the Blizzard community... It just seems a really strange move to us that Valve would go off and try to exclusively trademark the term considering it's something that's been freely available to us and everyone in the Warcraft III community up to this point.

"Valve is usually so pro mod community. It's such a community company that it just seems like a really strange move to us... I really don't understand why [they would do it], to be honest."

Valve's DOTA development is led by Abdul Ismail, known as IceFrog. Ismail was recently the target of an anonymous rant by a supposed Valve employee who called him a "compulsive liar", "unpleasantly domineering" and "poisonous to the company".

"He's one of the guys that most recently had been working on the DOTA Allstars map," said Pardo. "So I'm assuming, since he wants to continue making that map, that [Valve] felt like they should be able to trademark it."

Blizzard is showing internally-developed free mods for StarCraft II at BlizzCon this weekend. The biggest project of these is Blizzard DOTA, a Defence of the Ancients variant starring Blizzard characters from across its franchises, including Warcraft and Diablo ("a bit like Super Smash Brothers," according to the panel that unveiled it).

What if Valve were to object to Blizzard's use of the term for Blizzard DOTA, we aksed? "Our response is that they don't own the term DOTA at this point. It's something that they're filing for," Pardo said.
"Our contention is that it should continue to be available to Blizzard and to our community."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-10-23-valve-shouldnt-trademark-dota-blizzard

To be fair, DotA originated because of WarCraft III, therefor Valve really doesn't have the right to be using the name when they never published the game or even had any involvement in the original game. On the other hand, Blizzard has yet to develop an engine that could be used for DotA games aside from the StarCraft II engine, which is capable of doing quite a lot in the right hands and as such Blizzard has been developing a mod for SC2 that is a DotA game. Unfortunately neither company can really copyright a universal term that is used to describe a type of game style.

 

[rehevkor]

I dunno.. does either really have a claim? They used Blizzard's engine sure, but it's the people that made it who have the biggest claim, surely.

 

[Deleted User]

Blizzards pulling a bethsoft.

 

[Hadrian]

They used Blizzard's engine sure, but it's the people that made it who have the biggest claim, surely.

DOTA2 uses Valves source engine.

From what I see all Blizzard just don't want anyone to trademark the DOTA, they don't seem to be that bothered that Valve are calling it DOTA2 they just don't want the name trademarked at all and are happy for anyone to use it.

 

[rehevkor]

They used Blizzard's engine sure, but it's the people that made it who have the biggest claim, surely.

DOTA2 uses Valves source engine.

I mean the original DOTA(s).

 

[MasterPenguin]

The other developers went off to develop their own versions (LoL anyone?). I don't see anything wrong with IceFrog going to continue DOTA elsewhere.

 

[Bladexdsl]

i'd love to see these 2 giants go head to head and sue each over this i wonder who'd win

 

[gloweyjoey]

DotA stands for Defense of the Ancients. It started on the original warcraft 3 reign of chaos as a custom scenario map by a guy named Eul, and ecompassed a range of custom maps that shared the dota name, like one variant called DotA rumble. Once the expansion Frozen Throne came out, Guinsoo made DotA Allstars which is now the basis for all the MMOBA games out now.(HoN,LoL. I think guinsoo is working on LoL). Also if i remember correctly Eul didn't take too kindly to Guinsoo's AllStars, and Im sure he doesn't like any of this stuff going on either.

I would have to agree with Blizzard with this one. I don't think the name DotA should be copyrighted at all whatsoever. DotA will always have its roots in Warcraft 3. User created through a long line of map editors,(Eul, Guinsoo, and IceFrog who is the last of them), that should also be represnted in its creation and in its lasting appeal. Without all of them, Warcraft 3 and the Battle.net community there would be no DotA2.(I should also add that when I played DotA on war3 we called DotA an AOS type game, which stood for Aeon of Strife, which was a Starcraft mod)

The name DotA should not be copyrighted by anyone. It is ours!

 

[Qtis]

Inb4 what happened with Team Fortress: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Fortress. It was a mod made by fans and then in the end Valve hired the people who made it. Registering something like this is just as absurd as Apple claiming ownership for the rectangular design of the iPhone or icons based GUI. Meh. Hopefully they manage to overcome the problems here and "grow up". Both are great companies and have a good future ahead of them. If they just don't go and f' it up.

 

[DarkStriker]

To be fair, DotA originated because of WarCraft III, therefor Valve really doesn't have the right to be using the name when they never published the game or even had any involvement in the original game. On the other hand, Blizzard has yet to develop an engine that could be used for DotA games aside from the StarCraft II engine, which is capable of doing quite a lot in the right hands and as such Blizzard has been developing a mod for SC2 that is a DotA game. Unfortunately neither company can really copyright a universal term that is used to describe a type of game style.

And currently that term is known as MOBA.

And hopefully valve wins this. Im here to play Dota2, not some random SC2 mod crap. Not that i wont try it though. It wont be the same. I want to play dota on updated graphics with the same feel.

EDIT: And yes i currently play the beta of Dota2. And its basically the same really, with updated graphics.

 

[gloweyjoey]

Valve hired the people who made it.

Valve only hired one of the people responsible for deveolping DotA, and DotA had been around for 5 years before he had anything to do with it, so yes it's absurd.

To be fair, DotA originated because of WarCraft III, therefor Valve really doesn't have the right to be using the name when they never published the game or even had any involvement in the original game. On the other hand, Blizzard has yet to develop an engine that could be used for DotA games aside from the StarCraft II engine, which is capable of doing quite a lot in the right hands and as such Blizzard has been developing a mod for SC2 that is a DotA game. Unfortunately neither company can really copyright a universal term that is used to describe a type of game style.

And currently that term is known as MOBA.

And hopefully valve wins this. Im here to play Dota2, not some random SC2 mod crap. Not that i wont try it though. It wont be the same. I want to play dota on updated graphics with the same feel.

Im pretty sure it's MMOBA. I aswell "am here" to play DotA 2 which I am in the beta, but regardless its based on RTS(Starcraft, Warcraft) mods so no matter what youre playing some RTS "mod crap." If Valve wins there could NEVER be any more mods with this name as it would be trademarked, which is why this is absurd. The game DotA 2 wont go anywhere if they lose the name battle, It appears that Blizzards has no intentions on trademarking the name either which is the right thing to do. IceFrog is just trying to "have his cake and eat it too" but really, he should be grateful for the slice he was given in the first place.

 

[notmeanymore]

Both personally and in a legal sense, I think the original mod creator should win this one. He came up with the name, so he should retain rights to it. It's associated with Blizzard, but that doesn't mean they have a right to own it. As a gamer, I hope Valve wins. Best resolution to this conflict: all parties drop trademark claims, Blizzard and Valve change the names of their upcoming projects.

 

[gloweyjoey]

Both personally and in a legal sense, I think the original mod creator should win this one. He came up with the name, so he should retain rights to it. It's associated with Blizzard, but that doesn't mean they have a right to own it. As a gamer, I hope Valve wins. Best resolution to this conflict: all parties drop trademark claims, Blizzard and Valve change the names of their upcoming projects.

IceFrog did not come up with the name, Eul did, and he has nothing to do with this, as he is not part of Blizzard or Valve(But I am Eul doesnt think too highly about the whole situation). Blizzard is not trying to copyright the name because that would be asinine. They just trying to use the name and they have every right to use it since DotA was created on a Blizzard platform.
IceFrog however is trying to copyright a name he did not create through Valve.(asinine)

 

[DarkStriker]

Both personally and in a legal sense, I think the original mod creator should win this one. He came up with the name, so he should retain rights to it. It's associated with Blizzard, but that doesn't mean they have a right to own it. As a gamer, I hope Valve wins. Best resolution to this conflict: all parties drop trademark claims, Blizzard and Valve change the names of their upcoming projects.

Lol havent heard from "Eul" since "guinsoo" took over.

 

[Qtis]

Valve hired the people who made it.

Valve only hired one of the people responsible for deveolping DotA, and DotA had been around for 5 years before he had anything to do with it, so yes it's absurd.

I was talking about Team Fortress and TF2. Not DotA people. Thus what I said..

But as you mentioned, it'd be absurd if it was registered to Valve when only a few people involved are working on it. But as we have seen in the past, it may need some new people for a series or game to go to the next level..

 

[Guild McCommunist]

i'd love to see these 2 giants go head to head and sue each over this i wonder who'd win

Discontinue support for every Blizzard game on Steam and see how much fun it is for them.

Unless they copyrighted Dota, I don't see an issue. They named it Dota 2, not Defense of the Ancients 2 or Warcraft III: Defense of the Ancients. It's an abbreviation of a game not even made by Blizzard, it's just a mod of their game. And honestly, don't fuck around with Valve, getting on their bad side is basically pissing off the largest digital distributor of video games in history.

 

[exangel]

i'd love to see these 2 giants go head to head and sue each over this i wonder who'd win

Discontinue support for every Blizzard game on Steam and see how much fun it is for them.

Don't mean to nitpick but I've never seen an official Blizzard game sold through Steam before.

 

[gloweyjoey]

Valve hired the people who made it.

Valve only hired one of the people responsible for developing DotA, and DotA had been around for 5 years before he had anything to do with it, so yes it's absurd.

I was talking about Team Fortress and TF2. Not DotA people. Thus what I said..

But as you mentioned, it'd be absurd if it was registered to Valve when only a few people involved are working on it. But as we have seen in the past, it may need some new people for a series or game to go to the next level..

I am very sorry, I misread.

Honestly it would be absurd for ANYONE to to register the name. Blizzard is NOT trying to copyright the name with their game Blizzard DotA. They however just want to use the name and I am sure they would want anyone with the talent and interest to create new mod maps for their RTS games on battle.net with the DotA name.

It just seems a really strange move to us that Valve would go off and try to exclusively trademark the term considering it's something that's been freely available to us and everyone in the Warcraft III community up to this point.

I think it is also worth mentioning that the people involved in the development of DotA did not do it all together at the same time. ONE guy did it for years(Eul), then another guy took over(Guinsoo), and then another guy took over after him(IceFrog). Now IceFrog is trying to claim DotA(CAKE) as his own, when he has been cut a very sizable slice(DotA Allstars 6.xx+, DotA 2) of in the first place.

 

[Gahars]

Blizzard vs. Valve?

I'm afraid this matter may be settled by a game delay-off. Brace yourselves.

 

[DarkStriker]

I am very sorry, I misread.

Honestly it would be absurd for ANYONE to to register the name. Blizzard is NOT trying to copyright the name with their game Blizzard DotA. They however just want to use the name and I am sure they would want anyone with the talent and interest to create new mod maps for their RTS games on battle.net with the DotA name.

I think it is also worth mentioning that the people involved in the development of DotA did not do it all together at the same time. ONE guy did it for years(Eul), then another guy took over(Guinsoo), and then another guy took over after him(IceFrog). Now IceFrog is trying to claim DotA(CAKE) as his own, when he has been cut a very sizable slice(DotA Allstars 6.xx+, DotA 2) of in the first place.

Infact they arent trying to copyright it, but their trying to make valve not use Dota as the game name. Or in short their trying to keep it to themselves. Or even shorter. Their trying to copyrights it in their own way.
And i just saw you did quote me earlier. Let me respond on that. Its not MMOBA. Because its not massively. Ur playing with 9 others. Even if they copyright Dota. Games like dota will still be made. They can call themselves Dorfa and still be fine. They copyright the name, not the genre. True its based on a mod, but the fact that the elements is different from RTS is still true. Think of it like FPS and TPS. Same shit, yet different. Dota was used as a term early becasue it was still new and fresh and they really didnt have any better way to describe it than dota when games like dota poppep up.