Nintendo has yet again issued a series of DMCA takedowns across GitHub that specfically target popular Nintendo Switch emulators. Nintendo's reasoning is to protect its copyrighted IP and prevent unauthorized distribution.

It's common knowledge that most emulators worth their weight do not themselves include any cryptographic keys - with most requiring users provide their own. However, Nintendo has previously insisted that such emulators facilitate copyright infringement rather than claiming them to be illegal as such, and as of now, no court has formally ruled that using or distributing emulators without games violates copyright.

Of course, emulators offer many benefits rather than simply "facilitating piracy". One of the big ones, being of course; game preservation - allowing future generations to experience games that might no longer be available for purchase or that have been delisted. Emulators can also be a great help to users with accessiblity needs, providing alternate input options for those that need it.

What do you think? Is Nintendo justified in its crusade against emulators or should they take a step back?

Source

 

[chrisrlink]

Hard to say. The US basically forces it's copyright laws onto other countries, but that might not matter much anymore.

Computers themselves would be hard to challenge because they don't directly facilitate piracy and quite obviously have a commercial use case outside piracy. In contrast Nintendo does have evidence that emulators are used for piracy and don't have any sort of commercial viability beyond that. You could, of course, argue that emulators can be use for homebrew game and personal backups, but you'd need to actually demonstrate that is the case to a significant extent, not just say it as a hypothetical.

forces copyright law? don't tell sega that

 

[NinStar]

Using the term "stupid" to set down others opinions, takes all validity away from your own imo, but let's not digress.

Sorry if I came across as too harsh.

Again, there is a difference between a first "new in store sale", and a re-release through a classic device. It's a huge difference in income.

Being totally honest, I can't imagine a scenario where arguing that one product (potentially) sells more than another because it's older or newer makes any practical difference in real life, since both are still being sold in some shape or form, that's all that matters to them and it's why I'm strongly against the point you made against emulating current gen consoles.

The fact that you advocate against IP laws, and advocate piracy, actually shows your true intentions beyond emulation. You don't truly care about preservation it feels. It's a point of view I personally am against, and I would describe with words that wouldn't be fitting here. But that's all another topic.

This is intellectually dishonest. Those are not mutually exclusive things, one of the many reasons I advocate against IPs is because many of the laws around it actively go against the very concept of digital preservation, mainly due to how fucking old they are, and even when there's some exemption to it there is almost always a loophole that favors the IP holder (like circumventing encrypted software). There are many other valid reasons to be against IP in general, like the patent industry and the negative effects it has to the access of medicine. Saying that someone doesn't care about preservation just because they are in favor of piracy isn't as strong an argument as you think.

While it's true that emulation always went hand in hand with current life consoles, it was rarely if ever at a point where it could be emulated better than it could be played in the original hardware. One could also program an emulator, perfect it over time, without releasing it for the mass.

Newer emulators are more and more complex to develop, many of them are open source collaborations. Unless you are being backed by a corporation like Nintendo's internal team making their commercial emulators, gatekeeping them is just unrealistic.

 

[Renos44]

I wanna also throw my 2 cents in about the preservation argument for emulators specifically for video games.

For anything discontinued or no longer available to purchase or can't be experienced in its original form and has 0 means of coming back. Emulation is completely valid for preserving these things and we even have 90-100% accurate emulators these days.

However when it comes to releasing an emulator right in the middle of a consoles lifespan at its peak the preservation argument kinda falls flat.

The switch still was easily found in retail and has yet to be discontinued.
Baring few exceptions every game can be found at retail or via the eshop.
And seeing how for some reason Nintendo has kept the CDN for the WII shop channel alive for 20 years it will prob be just as long if not longer before we see that happen to the switch eshop.

So what exactly are we preserving?
And when it comes to experiencing games in the original form. The switch emulators are actually quite horrible at that. There not very accurate. Many games still have graphical bugs or require mods or patches just to be playable. They were built to see how many games we can get playable not necessarily to play them very well.

Add to this the difficulty and hassle of dumping your own games at this point 90% of the people who use ryujinx or yuzu are doing it purely for piracy.

I'm sorry but its hard to argue otherwise when

Every major switch release was leaked and heavily spread around online 1-3 weeks before release. I can understand a few copies making it out before launch but to that extent on social media you know something is up. Just look at the difference between the switch 2 exclusives and other consoles vs the switch 1. Anyone here remember xenoblade 3's launch period? There was more activity on forums on the best emulator and settings than discussing the game itself.

Countless threads asking how to get multi plats to run. You'd think the solution would be buy the PC version. And the usual response when asked is "PC version has denuvo or hasn't been cracked yet" I remember to Sonic colors ultimate debacle. Yes it has a horrrid switch port. But then you look to all these people posting absrud bugs on twitter only to find out it was emulator only,

Heck even mainstream outlets picked up on it at points. Remember when Kotaku openly hinted at pirating Metroid dread with an emulator.
Its no wonder Nintendo has had enough and is throwing the legal boot down.

 

[icegod]

Sorry if I came across as too harsh.


Being totally honest, I can't imagine a scenario where arguing that one product (potentially) sells more than another because it's older or newer makes any practical difference in real life, since both are still being sold in some shape or form, that's all that matters to them and it's why I'm strongly against the point you made against emulating current gen consoles.


This is intellectually dishonest. Those are not mutually exclusive things, one of the many reasons I advocate against IPs is because many of the laws around it actively go against the very concept of digital preservation, mainly due to how fucking old they are, and even when there's some exemption to it there is almost always a loophole that favors the IP holder (like circumventing encrypted software). There are many other valid reasons to be against IP in general, like the patent industry and the negative effects it has to the access of medicine. Saying that someone doesn't care about preservation just because they are in favor of piracy isn't as strong an argument as you think.


Newer emulators are more and more complex to develop, many of them are open source collaborations. Unless you are being backed by a corporation like Nintendo's internal team making their commercial emulators, gatekeeping them is just unrealistic.

How much would Mario Bros for the NES make Nintendo today? Being part of the NES, a small part, I would argue little. Noones gonna go and buy a Switch, for Mario Bros Nes alone.

Mario Oddysey itself made about 1.8 billion on sales. It helped selling tons of consoles added to that.

Nintendo has claimed that for example Zelda was pirated 1 million times. A number that could be very well true, seeing the switch pirate reddit has almost 300k users. That's a loss of 50 million dollar, without even counting extra hardware sales. Surely, not everyone would have ended up buying the game, but even at a fraction, multiplied over several big releases, the numbers add up.

Offcourse, a lot of those aren't for emulation, but also hacked switches. But it's just to show that there is a huge difference in logic, for an old release vs one that's new.

The whole IP debate is another tale. But just want to pick on "it goes against digital preservation". Circling back to before: it's not a right. I would love to have older games re-released, like the old WWF/WCW games of the AKI times, and I know it can't because of IP's, but replaying what has been isn't a right. It's sad, but it's how it is.

It's the same for emulation, it's not a basic right. It's good for those wanting to create something, but not at all cost. You can develop in a team, without releasing it to the entire world.

When Switch games came out, new, and wouldn't work with an emulator, a patch was created in days or weeks. That's pure and simply supporting piracy.

Emulators have been protected for a long time, but it takes only one lawsuit to destroy them and make them illegal. And at this rate, it will happen.

So anyone truly caring about preservation, should discourage any potential for piracy. Why take risks?

 

[Kioku]

How much would Mario Bros for the NES make Nintendo today? Being part of the NES, a small part, I would argue little. Noones gonna go and buy a Switch, for Mario Bros Nes alone.

Mario Oddysey itself made about 1.8 billion on sales. It helped selling tons of consoles added to that.

Nintendo has claimed that for example Zelda was pirated 1 million times. A number that could be very well true, seeing the switch pirate reddit has almost 300k users. That's a loss of 50 million dollar, without even counting extra hardware sales. Surely, not everyone would have ended up buying the game, but even at a fraction, multiplied over several big releases, the numbers add up.

Offcourse, a lot of those aren't for emulation, but also hacked switches. But it's just to show that there is a huge difference in logic, for an old release vs one that's new.

The whole IP debate is another tale. But just want to pick on "it goes against digital preservation". Circling back to before: it's not a right. I would love to have older games re-released, like the old WWF/WCW games of the AKI times, and I know it can't because of IP's, but replaying what has been isn't a right. It's sad, but it's how it is.

It's the same for emulation, it's not a basic right. It's good for those wanting to create something, but not at all cost. You can develop in a team, without releasing it to the entire world.

When Switch games came out, new, and wouldn't work with an emulator, a patch was created in days or weeks. That's pure and simply supporting piracy.

Emulators have been protected for a long time, but it takes only one lawsuit to destroy them and make them illegal. And at this rate, it will happen.

So anyone truly caring about preservation, should discourage any potential for piracy. Why take risks?

The very notion that a pirated game = monetary loss is absolutely wild to me. Nintendo can claim (and has) that a game being downloaded 5 million times is 5 million lost sales. It's bullshit. A terrible metric that should need to be proven without a shadow of a doubt. The idea that those 5 million downloads could ever equate to 5 million sales (or any percentage of it, really) is laughable. Unfortunately, this is for the courts to decide and they've sided with poor Ninty over someone downloading a game they may already own anyway.

It's a slippery slope, but it seems to be one they're happy treading. Assumed financial loss is not the same thing as actual financial loss. Nothing was stolen or deprived.

 

[Captain-Z]

You're forgetting something. It not going to court and letting them do is a good thing. Emulation being tested in court would be awful. That could make things worse for the entire emulation community as a whole.

Oh, I completely agree. I;m just saying Nintendo isn't completely crazy here

It's literally not though. Do you have any cases to back this up? By that logic, any form of PC is illegal under copyright law, since all piracy in the modern day is done through PCs. That argument doesn't hold up at all.

It literally is though. Read the thread, I've already answered this.

There aren't any cases to refer to because it's never actually been tried in court, but the closest thing I can think of off the top of my head would be Nintendo V Go Cyber, which did rule that flashcards and mod chip violated copyright law because they were being used for piracy. That was a Canadian case, but that still has relevancy in other common law countries like the US.
.

 

[HarveyHouston]

Emulators are a double-edged sword. They do allow for piracy, but they don't have to. Nintendo's only response is to ban every emulator in existence, but it will never work in the long run, so why even try?

Just let them exist and do business as usual, big N. Change your goals and find peace even with piracy, or else stay worried about all the pirates in the world stealing your stuff.

 

[RyanTheArchivist]

Oh, I completely agree. I;m just saying Nintendo isn't completely crazy here

It literally is though. Read the thread, I've already answered this.

There aren't any cases to refer to because it's never actually been tried in court, but the closest thing I can think of off the top of my head would be Nintendo V Go Cyber, which did rule that flashcards and mod chip violated copyright law because they were being used for piracy. That was a Canadian case, but that still has relevancy in other common law countries like the US.
.

Oh then we are in agreement. The best possible outcome here is Nintendo takes this stuff down outside of court. And.... well nobody can be really shocked about them taking this down just due to the situation around it all. I mean I bet any company wouldn't be happy about people emulating a system they are still actively releasing games for lol.

 

[RedBlueGreen]

You're forgetting something. It not going to court and letting them do is a good thing. Emulation being tested in court would be awful. That could make things worse for the entire emulation community as a whole.

This happened 28 years ago, the emulator won, and the plaintiff was Sony. Emulators aren't illegal.

What's illegal is piracy, and that doesn't depend on emulators being available. Game copiers have existed for a long, before emulation was practical.

 

[CYYAN]

If there weren't emulators people would still pirate on console, that's a separate issue. I also don't think it makes any significant impact on console sales, Nintendo is just greedy, they have record breaking Switch 1 sales already.

Emulators are just a superior experience compared to consoles because you have way more freedom and features, from playing on your phone, to using any USB controller, better graphics, achievements, etc. If you bought the cartridges and you're not distributing them, why not enjoy them how you see fit.


There's a lot of stuff no longer available on the eShop already, I think we should preserve even the new stuff, it can be pulled at any time.

 

[ChronoCrossfangirl2002]

Emulators are just a superior experience compared to consoles because you have way more freedom and features, from playing on your phone, to using any USB controller, better graphics, achievements, etc. If you bought the cartridges and you're not distributing them, why not enjoy them how you see fit.

You're half right but at the end of the day this is getting into subjective territory.

There's a lot of stuff no longer available on the eShop already, I think we should preserve even the new stuff, it can be pulled at any time.

That's what many are trying to do and have done for the most part, it's only annoying to do because of points that established why many times in this very thread.

 

[_iggyman_]

Citron site (and github) are shutdown...

Any new source for Citron?

 

[RyanTheArchivist]

This happened 28 years ago, the emulator won, and the plaintiff was Sony. Emulators aren't illegal.

What's illegal is piracy, and that doesn't depend on emulators being available. Game copiers have existed for a long, before emulation was practical.

A lot can change in 28 years. Not worth testing again.

 

[Lumstar]

forces copyright law? don't tell sega that

Like or or not, US law and the Internet are nigh inseparable. A substantial amount of the web's technical structure, standards bodies, and major online companies are situated in the US.

 

[lwiz]

Citron site (and github) are shutdown...

Any new source for Citron?

Eden still up, both in the github and own site, so whatever is happening to citron is unrelated to whole DMCA comedy.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

But you seem to think of preservation as a right. It isn't.

It should be.

But if preservation is truly your motivation for emulation, there are no arguments to be made that it can't wait until after the console is at it's EOL. If you're deadset on having emulation for current generation consoles, you're in it for piracy.

For all intents and purposes, it is. There's nothing of note coming out for the Switch. Nintendo themselves are not releasing more games for it. As far as we know, Metroid Prime 4 was the last retail game to be released for the Switch.

 

[ertaboy356b]

I can understand the frustration but most of what I see online includes a pirated key. You need to be able to own a modded Switch to be able to legally use this and most of the users doesn't even own one.

While the actual binaries from the website doesn't includes a key, it being easily available is like asking for it. I don't know, probably best way to do this is to let the user compile the application with their keys in the package instead of making it user replaceable. It definitely introduces a small barrier of entry and downloading random binaries (with keys) online will make it a bit risky.

 

[icegod]

It should be.


For all intents and purposes, it is. There's nothing of note coming out for the Switch. Nintendo themselves are not releasing more games for it. As far as we know, Metroid Prime 4 was the last retail game to be released for the Switch.

I think it's not very high on the priority list of what should be to be honest.

The entire Nintendo vs Switch emulators isn't really a recent thing. If the first Switch emulator came out today, chances are Nintendo would react differently to it.

 

[ertaboy356b]

It should be.


For all intents and purposes, it is. There's nothing of note coming out for the Switch. Nintendo themselves are not releasing more games for it. As far as we know, Metroid Prime 4 was the last retail game to be released for the Switch.

Tomodachi Life is still releasing on the Switch though. We won't know for sure if that's the last of the first party games. We could get a Push-Mo on the Switch so yeah.

Post automatically merged: Feb 17, 2026

Eden still up, both in the github and own site, so whatever is happening to citron is unrelated to whole DMCA comedy.

I read that there's been an alleged personal attack and privacy breach to one of the citron devs from eden devs. Not sure if this correct.

Post automatically merged: Feb 17, 2026

The main point acknowledges that but that's like saying all knives are used for murder which isn't true

I think there's a difference between knife is used for murder and knives are 99.9999% used for murder instead of cutting things.

Post automatically merged: Feb 17, 2026

ITT: False equivalencies, shallow arguments, veiled deception, and all around arrogance. Yup, it's a thread about piracy.

The only way these DMCAs hold water is if there's copyrighted code incorporated into it, or they're distributing copyrighted/protected content. The intent of the software really should never have been allowed to become the main argument. Bleem set a precedent that's going widely ignored in the modern era, which is just weird.

The problem with the bleem case is that it's pre-DMCA.

Post automatically merged: Feb 17, 2026

Here is a simple example.

I own a gamecube and Mario Sunshine, and wanted to take a longer trip in a foreign country.
Naturally I can't bring a whole setup with me, so I installed Dolphin on a laptop.
Now I was able to 100% legally play the Eclipse romhack on the go, because of an emulator.

Also: Super Smash Bros. Melee is mainly played on emulator nowadays.
Because the emulator adds a full online service with rollback netcode.
Good luck getting something this stable and competitively viable from Nintendo Online.

The thing with Gamecube (and systems before it) in general is that it doesn't have any sort of digital DRM (does not involved any sort of private keys to function). The wii up to the switch however involves private keys which we know are a gray area. It needs to be proven in court to be considered legal or illegal I guess.

 

[RunningSnakes]

This thread has mold. The same back/forth keyboard lawyer garbage that always happens.

I have read the thread to entirety, nobody wins the debate! Anyone can have their own view/opinion and post, then blasted by some other opposing opinion, unhealthy thread!

Emulation as a whole is a beautiful existence, the ways it has been abused is not. If the game is current and you want to play it, buy it, then play. Simple as that! Everything else is watered down piracy bullshit talk.