Your thoughts on suicide

[Forstride]

I hate to say it, but I agree with the Cat Boy.

But really, I see it as a pathetic and immoral way to escape and give up. You hurt the people that love and care about you, and you just take the coward's way out. If I was in a situation like vidboy said, I would still push forward to my fullest, and when the time comes, the offensive side will kill me. Until then, I'd try to resist and get out of the situation.

It's almost like that with depressing situations that make you think of suicide. You just have to take your mind off it, and think/do something positive. Like video games for example...A lot of people see them as a way to escape from real-life stress for short periods of time.

I just think suicide is pathetic, selfish, cowardly, and just all-out wrong. But that might just be me.

 

[Nathan Drake]

So why is it my fault?

According to you, if I kill myself, and you get depressed, you should "man the fuck up." If you end up killing yourself as a result, that just means you're weak, right?

Some people think there's no justification for being Jewish. Or Muslim. Or a homosexual. That's the kind of bigotry you're giving off right now.

If you believe there's nothing afterward, what reason do you have not to kill yourself? Does it really matter if you live another 40 years or 40 seconds, if you're dead at the end anyways?

Well, I'm not gonna dissect that. I'll just take it in order.

If you kill yourself, it's weakness. What else would it be? Do you somehow feel you are doing something right by killing yourself? That people will happily remember you as that person that thought it was in some way a good idea to remove themselves? Man the fuck up applies to many parts of life, those considering suicide being the main ones. Hell, I'm a box of repressed memories tied shut with insecurity. Hell, even when those shit memories surface, I've taught myself that life is worth living regardless. There will always be something worse living for, and you're only shorting yourself believing there isn't.

Trying to call my views bigotry is actually funny to me. Being suicidal isn't a religion, it isn't a way of life, it isn't a culture, my views aren't bigotry. You must have a very loose concept of what bigotry is to try to even begin to compare my views to it. Is being suicidal being gay? Is it being Muslim? No, it is absolutely nothing like that. Don't even try to compare such a petty concept to things such as that.

Nothing afterwards is all the reason in the world not to kill yourself. No new experiences, no chances to change your situation. It is an irreversible action that is never considered fully. I would much rather live the next 60, 70, 80 years of my life and experience all the great things that may come along rather than end up dead and in the ground. There is another key reason, but that's down below already under the other quote.

I have yet to find any justification

QUOTE(Wombo Combo @ Jan 14 2011, 10:47 PM) I think if you have a disease that you are going to die (ie:aids) from no matter what then I think its justified if the person wants to do it because what is the point of living or accomplishing anything when your going to die soon from a disease/virus I can see that overwhelming the individual.

It's about leaving something behind. Leaving something behind that people will remember you for. Do you just want to be another chronically ill person, or do want to grab life by the reigns while you still can to make something of yourself in anyway possible? It's all about creating an image people will at least remember you for.

The acts in a hospital are a giant grey area though. There are no definitive answers on what is morally just in medical practice. It is hard to know where to draw the line in some situations.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Honestly, it's hard to talk about. Personally, I think the only people who should be giving advice/opinions, are the ones who have been down that road where they almost have. But for others saying "it's selfish" or "it's stupid", you don't really know what it's like.

If someone just can't get anywhere in life, and can't feel any happiness or anything, no matter how hard they've tried, whether they've been to psychiatrists and all that crap, I think it's justifiable to want to leave behind what you don't have, and start over new.

 

[nryn99]

damn, very hot argument.

@gifi4 let's pretend you want me alive, i want to die.

i will never listen to you. i'd still commit suicide. if you'd stop me i'll kill you.
that will be reality.

If I cared about you, I would try to. If you kill me, and you knew I cared, it might make you think for a second. You might reconsider. I would gladly give my life to keep a good friend or member of my family here in this world a bit longer. Especially if they did not share my belief. Who knows what I believe in could be correct, through my death, and the possibility of eternal life, my death could let me see this person again. I won't know until I take the dirt nap.

i like your answer.

i'd hate it if someone said they would tie me up or cage me and say "it's for your own good".

 

[Fireballo]

Death lasts a very long time.

 

[Urza]

So why is it my fault?

According to you, if I kill myself, and you get depressed, you should "man the fuck up." If you end up killing yourself as a result, that just means you're weak, right?

Some people think there's no justification for being Jewish. Or Muslim. Or a homosexual. That's the kind of bigotry you're giving off right now.

If you believe there's nothing afterward, what reason do you have not to kill yourself? Does it really matter if you live another 40 years or 40 seconds, if you're dead at the end anyways?

Well, I'm not gonna dissect that. I'll just take it in order.

If you kill yourself, it's weakness. What else would it be? Do you somehow feel you are doing something right by killing yourself? That people will happily remember you as that person that thought it was in some way a good idea to remove themselves? Man the fuck up applies to many parts of life, those considering suicide being the main ones. Hell, I'm a box of repressed memories tied shut with insecurity. Hell, even when those shit memories surface, I've taught myself that life is worth living regardless. There will always be something worse living for, and you're only shorting yourself believing there isn't.
Maybe because you've taken in the facts of your reailty, and have decided you don't want to live anymore?

Is anyone doing anything which could be construed as negative a sign of weakness? Playing video games? Watching television? Eating anything but the healthiest of foods?

What are we but a species who revolves around making suboptimal choices?

Trying to call my views bigotry is actually funny to me. Being suicidal isn't a religion, it isn't a way of life, it isn't a culture, my views aren't bigotry. You must have a very loose concept of what bigotry is to try to even begin to compare my views to it. Is being suicidal being gay? Is it being Muslim? No, it is absolutely nothing like that. Don't even try to compare such a petty concept to things such as that.
While this may be contrary to yourself, I go by the dictionary's definition of words.
CODEbigotry:
stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

You're quite clearly completely intolerant of those who don't share the same opinion on suicide that you do. That is the definition of bigotry.

QUOTE

Nothing afterwards is all the reason in the world not to kill yourself. No new experiences, no chances to change your situation. It is an irreversible action that is never considered fully. I would much rather live the next 60, 70, 80 years of my life and experience all the great things that may come along rather than end up dead and in the ground. There is another key reason, but that's down below already under the other quote.

Except if there's nothing afterwards, there's no memory of these things, so they might as well not have happened. Am I wrong?

 

[gifi4]

Honestly, it's hard to talk about. Personally, I think the only people who should be giving advice/opinions, are the ones who have been down that road where they almost have. But for others saying "it's selfish" or "it's stupid", you don't really know what it's like.

If someone just can't get anywhere in life, and can't feel any happiness or anything, no matter how hard they've tried, whether they've been to psychiatrists and all that crap, I think it's justifiable to want to leave behind what you don't have, and start over new.

No, just no. You're still hurting the people who love you, take a look at it like this: Would you rather be selfish and make all your loved ones hurt by suiciiding or would you keep trying to get better whilst keeping your family happy, they might not be

but they will support you considering you are giving life another chance, stopping them from going through incredible pain...

 

[nryn99]

hey guys, in one of my classes i have to write an essay on conflicts going on in the world.
i chose to write about suicide.

i just wanted to get a few of your opinions on the topic, whether you believe it's the persons' choice, or if it's a selfish decision.

ps, no i'm not committing it!

THANKS!

i think the OP may have a hard time writing his essay now.

 

[Urza]

Honestly, it's hard to talk about. Personally, I think the only people who should be giving advice/opinions, are the ones who have been down that road where they almost have. But for others saying "it's selfish" or "it's stupid", you don't really know what it's like.

If someone just can't get anywhere in life, and can't feel any happiness or anything, no matter how hard they've tried, whether they've been to psychiatrists and all that crap, I think it's justifiable to want to leave behind what you don't have, and start over new.

No, just no. You're still hurting the people who love you, take a look at it like this: Would you rather be selfish and make all your loved ones hurt by suiciiding or would you keep trying to get better whilst keeping your family happy, they might not be

but they will support you considering you are giving life another chance, stopping them from going through incredible pain...

Except as a dead body in the ground, what are the chances that these people still exist in my reality (or that I would have any reality at all)?

 

[gifi4]

Honestly, it's hard to talk about. Personally, I think the only people who should be giving advice/opinions, are the ones who have been down that road where they almost have. But for others saying "it's selfish" or "it's stupid", you don't really know what it's like.

If someone just can't get anywhere in life, and can't feel any happiness or anything, no matter how hard they've tried, whether they've been to psychiatrists and all that crap, I think it's justifiable to want to leave behind what you don't have, and start over new.

No, just no. You're still hurting the people who love you, take a look at it like this: Would you rather be selfish and make all your loved ones hurt by suiciiding or would you keep trying to get better whilst keeping your family happy, they might not be

but they will support you considering you are giving life another chance, stopping them from going through incredible pain...

Except as a dead body in the ground, what are the chances that these people still exist in my reality (or that I would have any reality at all)?

None, simply because no one knows, when you die, you can answer that question yourself, no one can answer it without dying.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Honestly, it's hard to talk about. Personally, I think the only people who should be giving advice/opinions, are the ones who have been down that road where they almost have. But for others saying "it's selfish" or "it's stupid", you don't really know what it's like.

If someone just can't get anywhere in life, and can't feel any happiness or anything, no matter how hard they've tried, whether they've been to psychiatrists and all that crap, I think it's justifiable to want to leave behind what you don't have, and start over new.

No, just no. You're still hurting the people who love you, take a look at it like this: Would you rather be selfish and make all your loved ones hurt by suiciiding or would you keep trying to get better whilst keeping your family happy, they might not be

but they will support you considering you are giving life another chance, stopping them from going through incredible pain...

Okay lets look at it like this:

Say your parents disowned you basically, they kicked you out, or they've passed on. And you have no other family.

And your friends don't want anything to do with you because they think being depressed is stupid or whatever, and they just tell you "lol [censored]". And you've spent years in psychiatry, taking pills and everything, but nothing is working. And you can't get your life back on track like getting a job or anything, because of your problems are stopping you. What's the point in going on if there's a slight possibility that in the next life, you could start fresh and feel that feeling of security, happiness, and love?

 

[Urza]

Honestly, it's hard to talk about. Personally, I think the only people who should be giving advice/opinions, are the ones who have been down that road where they almost have. But for others saying "it's selfish" or "it's stupid", you don't really know what it's like.

If someone just can't get anywhere in life, and can't feel any happiness or anything, no matter how hard they've tried, whether they've been to psychiatrists and all that crap, I think it's justifiable to want to leave behind what you don't have, and start over new.

No, just no. You're still hurting the people who love you, take a look at it like this: Would you rather be selfish and make all your loved ones hurt by suiciiding or would you keep trying to get better whilst keeping your family happy, they might not be

but they will support you considering you are giving life another chance, stopping them from going through incredible pain...

Except as a dead body in the ground, what are the chances that these people still exist in my reality (or that I would have any reality at all)?

None, simply because no one knows, when you die, you can answer that question yourself, no one can answer it without dying.

So why should I take the reality I leave behind into account if it contributes no knowledge of the new one?

 

[Nathan Drake]

So why is it my fault?

According to you, if I kill myself, and you get depressed, you should "man the fuck up." If you end up killing yourself as a result, that just means you're weak, right?

Some people think there's no justification for being Jewish. Or Muslim. Or a homosexual. That's the kind of bigotry you're giving off right now.

If you believe there's nothing afterward, what reason do you have not to kill yourself? Does it really matter if you live another 40 years or 40 seconds, if you're dead at the end anyways?

Well, I'm not gonna dissect that. I'll just take it in order.

If you kill yourself, it's weakness. What else would it be? Do you somehow feel you are doing something right by killing yourself? That people will happily remember you as that person that thought it was in some way a good idea to remove themselves? Man the fuck up applies to many parts of life, those considering suicide being the main ones. Hell, I'm a box of repressed memories tied shut with insecurity. Hell, even when those shit memories surface, I've taught myself that life is worth living regardless. There will always be something worse living for, and you're only shorting yourself believing there isn't.
Maybe because you've taken in the facts of your reailty, and have decided you don't want to live anymore?

Is anyone doing anything which could be construed as negative a sign of weakness? Playing video games? Watching television? Eating anything but the healthiest of foods?

What are we but a species who revolves around making suboptimal choices?

Trying to call my views bigotry is actually funny to me. Being suicidal isn't a religion, it isn't a way of life, it isn't a culture, my views aren't bigotry. You must have a very loose concept of what bigotry is to try to even begin to compare my views to it. Is being suicidal being gay? Is it being Muslim? No, it is absolutely nothing like that. Don't even try to compare such a petty concept to things such as that.
While this may be contrary to yourself, I go by the dictionary's definition of words.
CODEbigotry:
stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

You're quite clearly completely intolerant of those who don't share the same opinion on suicide that you do. That is the definition of bigotry.

QUOTE

Nothing afterwards is all the reason in the world not to kill yourself. No new experiences, no chances to change your situation. It is an irreversible action that is never considered fully. I would much rather live the next 60, 70, 80 years of my life and experience all the great things that may come along rather than end up dead and in the ground. There is another key reason, but that's down below already under the other quote.

Except if there's nothing afterwards, there's no memory of these things, so they might as well not have happened. Am I wrong?

Going by the good 'ol dictionary definition, everybody is a bigot on every issue, as our beliefs will never coincide perfectly with everybody else's. Taking a word's meaning literally and applying it in the wrong places isn't going to help. Debating isn't bigotry. Think of that as you will, but not agreeing with others is a part of life. If you want to think of it that way, you don't agree with my belief that suicide is a selfish act that isn't justifiable. You would be a bigot towards my own beliefs. See how that gets turned around? If you don't believe you yourself are being a bigot, than I am clearly not being a bigot.

Taking in the facts of reality? There are no "facts of reality" unless you create them as such. Reality is ever changing and evolving. What we know as reality can change in the matter of a day, and change again the next. Nobody is ever truly sure of what reality is, and we are only fooling ourselves when we think we do.

There is nothing for the person who died afterwards. The memories will still live on in those that have them. Those memories will move to others. Believing every piece of you disappears at the snap of your fingers is somewhat ignorant.

 

[Urza]

Going by the good 'ol dictionary definition, everybody is a bigot on every issue, as our beliefs will never coincide perfectly with everybody else's. Taking a word's meaning literally and applying it in the wrong places isn't going to help. Debating isn't bigotry. Think of that as you will, but not agreeing with others is a part of life. If you want to think of it that way, you don't agree with my belief that suicide is a selfish act that isn't justifiable. You would be a bigot towards my own beliefs. See how that gets turned around? If you don't believe you yourself are being a bigot, than I am clearly not being a bigot.
Disagreeing with someone isn't being a bigot. Calling them weak, selfish, telling them there's no justification for what they think and that they should "man the fuck up" and conform to your own opinion, is.

Taking in the facts of reality? There are no "facts of reality" unless you create them as such. Reality is ever changing and evolving. What we know as reality can change in the matter of a day, and change again the next. Nobody is ever truly sure of what reality is, and we are only fooling ourselves when we think we do.
Or you could not bother with chance, and put an end to your suffering instantly. What's the downside?

QUOTE

Believing every piece of you disappears at the snap of your fingers is somewhat ignorant.

Except that's what you just said. That there was "nothing afterwards."

Are you telling me now that there is something after death?

 

[gifi4]

Honestly, it's hard to talk about. Personally, I think the only people who should be giving advice/opinions, are the ones who have been down that road where they almost have. But for others saying "it's selfish" or "it's stupid", you don't really know what it's like.

If someone just can't get anywhere in life, and can't feel any happiness or anything, no matter how hard they've tried, whether they've been to psychiatrists and all that crap, I think it's justifiable to want to leave behind what you don't have, and start over new.

No, just no. You're still hurting the people who love you, take a look at it like this: Would you rather be selfish and make all your loved ones hurt by suiciiding or would you keep trying to get better whilst keeping your family happy, they might not be

but they will support you considering you are giving life another chance, stopping them from going through incredible pain...

Okay lets look at it like this:

Say your parents disowned you basically, they kicked you out, or they've passed on. And you have no other family.

And your friends don't want anything to do with you because they think being depressed is stupid or whatever, and they just tell you "lol [censored]". And you've spent years in psychiatry, taking pills and everything, but nothing is working. And you can't get your life back on track like getting a job or anything, because of your problems are stopping you. What's the point in going on if there's a slight possibility that in the next life, you could start fresh and feel that feeling of security, happiness, and love?

This is off topic but: They wouldn't be what you call friends, just morons.
OT: There is no way to answer that without the suiciding person first asking themselves, "Do I believe in the afterlife? Have I ever believed in the afterlife?"

@Urza
Well what if it does contribute, what if, there are 2 afterlifes: A Heaven type afterlife and a Hell type afterlife, What if the people who suicide go to the hell type and the people who live their life completely (This includes if they die at the age of 5 or something because of something like getting hit by a car or w/e as long as they didn't wish for it) go the the heaven type afterlife...Everything I just said is a "What if"... There is no way to get a 100% answer for this.

Ever heard on the news of someone who dies and comes back alive, They usually say something like "I saw the light" or "I heard a voice" well they could just be after fame here...No one knows, only that person who was there themselves, but can you really believe what they say?

 

[Urza]

@Urza
Well what if it does contribute, what if, there are 2 afterlifes: A Heaven type afterlife and a Hell type afterlife, What if the people who suicide go to the hell type and the people who live their life completely (This includes if they die at the age of 5 or something because of something like getting hit by a car or w/e as long as they didn't wish for it) go the the heaven type afterlife...Everything I just said is a "What if"... There is no way to get a 100% answer for this.

If you believe in a Christian-style afterlife, you might as well believe any other mystical fairy tale construed by human, as nothing on this Earth provides enough evidence to really point to any of them.

Roll a die and pick: your result will be just as accurate.

 

[gifi4]

@Urza
Well what if it does contribute, what if, there are 2 afterlifes: A Heaven type afterlife and a Hell type afterlife, What if the people who suicide go to the hell type and the people who live their life completely (This includes if they die at the age of 5 or something because of something like getting hit by a car or w/e as long as they didn't wish for it) go the the heaven type afterlife...Everything I just said is a "What if"... There is no way to get a 100% answer for this.

If you believe in a Christian-style afterlife, you might as well believe any other mystical fairy tale construed by human, as nothing on this Earth provides enough evidence to really point to any of them.

Roll a die and pick: your result will be just as accurate.

Exactly why I said "What if".

 

[Nathan Drake]

Going by the good 'ol dictionary definition, everybody is a bigot on every issue, as our beliefs will never coincide perfectly with everybody else's. Taking a word's meaning literally and applying it in the wrong places isn't going to help. Debating isn't bigotry. Think of that as you will, but not agreeing with others is a part of life. If you want to think of it that way, you don't agree with my belief that suicide is a selfish act that isn't justifiable. You would be a bigot towards my own beliefs. See how that gets turned around? If you don't believe you yourself are being a bigot, than I am clearly not being a bigot.
Disagreeing with someone isn't being a bigot. Calling them weak, selfish, telling them there's no justification for what they think and that they should "man the fuck up" and conform to your own opinion, is.

Taking in the facts of reality? There are no "facts of reality" unless you create them as such. Reality is ever changing and evolving. What we know as reality can change in the matter of a day, and change again the next. Nobody is ever truly sure of what reality is, and we are only fooling ourselves when we think we do.
Or you could not bother with chance, and put an end to your suffering instantly. What's the downside?

QUOTE

Believing every piece of you disappears at the snap of your fingers is somewhat ignorant.

Except that's what you just said. That there was "nothing afterwards."

Are you telling me now that there is something after death?

Misconstruing what I say does not make me a bigot. I'm not telling you to agree with me, I'm stating what I believe. I believe that if you think suicide is the only way, that you need to man the fuck up. If you believe it's not selfish, I believe that you should consider it as so. When considering suicide as the only way to go though; can you say you aren't weak? Suicide is in essence, giving up. A strong person would not give up. That is less debatable, more factual.

I have simply stated what I believe and that those considering suicide should also consider that. Not once have I said that they better damn well believe it or else they might as well go.

The downside to ending your so called "suffering" is that you'll never know what could have been if you end it. Losing hope for the future comes right back to being weak. You can't tell me you're a strong person in anyway if you are willing to give up so easily and not even consider the end of your personal trials as a possibility or even an inevitability.

There is nothing for the one who committed suicide after death. I have yet to imply there is. I simply stated that people will still remember you, that you won't be completely gone in every way simply because you killed yourself. It was more of a side thought more than anything else. Considering life until you know you've left something behind worth being remembered for, made a difference with what you thought was a meaningless life, that could easily turn everything around. That is a trial in itself, but one somebody in such a position should strongly consider.

 

[Urza]

@Urza
Well what if it does contribute, what if, there are 2 afterlifes: A Heaven type afterlife and a Hell type afterlife, What if the people who suicide go to the hell type and the people who live their life completely (This includes if they die at the age of 5 or something because of something like getting hit by a car or w/e as long as they didn't wish for it) go the the heaven type afterlife...Everything I just said is a "What if"... There is no way to get a 100% answer for this.

If you believe in a Christian-style afterlife, you might as well believe any other mystical fairy tale construed by human, as nothing on this Earth provides enough evidence to really point to any of them.

Roll a die and pick: your result will be just as accurate.

Exactly why I said "What if".

What if only those who kill themselves gain access to the gates of Heaven, and everyone else goes to Hell?

There is truly nothing productive that can come of that discussion.

 

[Urza]

The downside to ending your so called "suffering" is that you'll never know what could have been if you end it. Losing hope for the future comes right back to being weak. You can't tell me you're a strong person in anyway if you are willing to give up so easily and not even consider the end of your personal trials as a possibility or even an inevitability.

There is nothing for the one who committed suicide after death. I have yet to imply there is. I simply stated that people will still remember you, that you won't be completely gone in every way simply because you killed yourself. It was more of a side thought more than anything else. Considering life until you know you've left something behind worth being remembered for, made a difference with what you thought was a meaningless life, that could easily turn everything around. That is a trial in itself, but one somebody in such a position should strongly consider.
Ignoring your continuing lack of respect for the English language...

Once again, I must reiterate your statement to clarify that it is accurate:
QUOTEI personally believe there is nothing after. You're worm food, you're just feeding the soil.

So if there's nothing after, there is no memory of the people who still remember you. There is no memory of what you have accomplished, the differences you've made. The meaning your life had.

What's the point in persevering, if no matter what action you take, in the end you are rewarded with literally nothing?