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  1. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    Name the "flaws" instead of just using a generic term. TBH the one flaw I've seen so far is maybe some minor pop-in. The controls, music, mechanics, and level design are all fantastic. Because it's a Mario game and not some other shitty platformer character. You can't just pretend some equivalent to Mario with a different character exists out there. No other series/developer does 3D platforming this well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  2. Bladexdsl

    Bladexdsl ZOMG my posts...it's over 9000!!!
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    too many racing mini games :P
     
  3. RedBlueGreen

    RedBlueGreen GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    I've pointed out flaws a few times already. And while most 3D Mario games are good, this one's a rare miss.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  4. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    Sorry, but your points are total BS. There's no lack of platforming in Odyssey, and I don't know how you missed all the best platforming challenges either. You say the world is barren but also full of things to capture, gotta make up your mind on that one. The world isn't barren or very open at all, it's progression-based. Nobody found the Cappy mechanic to be "crappy" except you apparently, it opens up so many more possibilities and allows for creative level design. Or you can ignore captures entirely and just use the cap for extra platforming, but it seems like those routes were too hard for you to figure out. There are only a handful of moons that are simple, not a handful that actually take time to reach. Dunkey even notes that in his video.

    You shouldn't ever go into a Mario game expecting the challenge of your life, none of the 3D Marios have been that way. Just calling everything that's good about the game crappy doesn't make it true, though. The game is a blast from start to finish, and if you've really played as much of it as you claim, maybe you're just not into platformers or would prefer a nice simple man's CoD. Difficult 2D platformers are a dime a dozen. Get Super Meat Boy and League of Evil (Switch) if that's what you're looking for. Cuphead, Nioh, Furi, Dark Souls if you're looking for a non-platforming challenge. None of them match up to Mario Odyssey in presentation, but they'll sure make you wish for its difficulty back.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  5. RedBlueGreen

    RedBlueGreen GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    I like how instead of actually refuting any of my points you just say I'm wrong.
    Instead of giving examples of how the stuff I'm pointing out aren't flaws you're just saying "Nope you're wrong" without any real argument.
    There are a few people who have mentioned they find there to be a lack of platforming so it's not just me, and I specificy exactly why I find the Cappy gimmick to be crappy. It may allow for creative level design, but creativity does not equal quality. Look at how many times we had to capture things like forks and flagpoles to shoot up buildings and cliffs. I called the worlds barren because so much of them are just things like large plains, and yeah, there is a lack of platforming in Odyssey. Go play Super Mario 64 and tell me there's not more platforming there. Platforming doesn't mean running forward and only occasionally having to jump. It means actually having to jump on platforms and elevated areas to jump. Not occasionally having to jump while capturing bullet bills and using forks to launch up cliffs.

    You're the kind of cancerous fanboy that ruins gaming fanbases.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  6. sarkwalvein

    sarkwalvein There's hope for a Xenosaga port.
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    But he is right.
    And you are actually pushing your responsibility of providing examples into him.
    You know, you're just trying the lazy way of "winning an argument" by hoping the other one is lazier than you, instead of providing examples yourself.
     
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  7. RedBlueGreen

    RedBlueGreen GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    Actually I already provided examples in both of my earlier posts which were quoted in my response. You can't just say "you're wrong" on either side without supporting your argument.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  8. sarkwalvein

    sarkwalvein There's hope for a Xenosaga port.
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    In a nutshell it's a lack of platforming
    Which lack of platforming? Give examples.
    I have platformed plenty in the game, so unless you show what you mean, I can't agree.
    Specially the added degree of platforming with many added moves using Cappy that you can do e.g. in Donk City, there's plenty platforming, so please give an example of "lack of platforming"

    a lack of difficulty
    The main game is intentionally easy, I agree, but the extended challenges and after game is difficult enough, actually it follows the trend expected from Mario games. So, which lack of difficulty? give examples.

    barren poorly designed worlds that are only big for the sake of being "open world"
    The worlds I've played actually have a pretty good design, the "gimmick" is used very well and everything in those worlds is designed to make perfect use of it, so please, enlighten me, give examples of the bad design, concrete examples.

    the crappy overused gimmick known as Cappy that is essential for almost everything
    Mario has always been about the gimmicks, Mario games are built and designed around the particular gimmick of the said game (fludd, gravity, etc) and the gimmick is always essential and the heart of the game, the design comes together around the gimmick to make a good game, so I don't see how this is bad. Give an example.

    and poorly thought out challenges to get the moons with a lot just sitting in inconvenient to reach places (high places, around corners, crevices, etc).
    That is the idea, polish your platforming skills and do a good usage of them, instead of saying there is no difficulty and no platforming. This point contradicts what you said before. Anyway, please give an example of how this is bad at all.

    really boring worlds
    I suppose this must be subjective, as I find them quite entertaining. As I said before in one of my status updates, I find this game lots of fun, actually my favourite Mario game. But I concede that different people have different tastes.

    almost zero difficulty with all of my deaths being due to failing long jums and captures
    Git gud, and actually, how is this bad? Give an example, also there is no problem dying, but you could avoid it if you just get skilful, if you can't then may be, maay be the game has a certain difficulty you are stubbornly denying.

    The capture gimmick is really annoying because it's overused and necessary to do pretty much ANYTHING
    Read above after the "Cappy overused" topic. And how is this supposed to be bad. Provide examples.

    and there are too many power moons for really small things like ground pounding, making them really easy to miss.
    And this is bad why? You can even buy hints. Give examples of how this would make the game experience bad.

    I will reply up to here because the rest is more or less the same.
     
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  9. fluffykiwi

    fluffykiwi GBAtemp Fan
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    This game was enough to finally make me buy a Switch. Think I'm about halfway through and looking forward to trying for 100% completion. I think Super Mario 64 is still my favourite, but this is quite close. Now I need to get some more games that I love to justify spending so much for basically a single game. :}
     
  10. RedBlueGreen

    RedBlueGreen GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    The parts where you actually platform as Mario are few and far between. Most of the game's platforming consists of using Cappy to capture an enemy or object and launch up. That's hardly true platforming compared to other platforming games. I mentioned this before as well.
    Already mentioned above a lot of worlds just feature big open plain like spaces like the desert one, the middle of the luncheon kingdom, big parts of the water kingdom are just basically sand under water with the only notable part being the underwater "city" area.
    Cappy/capturing is a terrible gimmick because he's necessary to do literally anything. Oh you need to break something. Capture an enemy. Oh you need to rocket up a cliff? Capture a pole. Oh you need to get across a large pit? Capture a bullet bill or those caterpillars. Oh there's a really high up area? Capture an enemy that can launch you up like the squid things in the beach kingdom. This is overly gimmicky and just plain boring. At least Fludd and the gravity gimmick were used to aid you in platforming, not used to substitute it.
    It may be the idea but it's far from good. It's just lazy to stick them in inconvenient places with almost no reason. Super Mario 64 actually had you platform, and accpomplish specific objectives to get stars. That's how a collect-a-thon platformer should be. Players should be rewarded key objects for accomplishing something, not just handed something.
    The game is ridiculousky easy. The spots I died could've been much easier t do with capturing enemies (namely my long jumps) but I chose to do it without capturing in those places.
    It's bad because it really takes no skill to get those. It's just crap that's put in to up the moon count so the game seems longer than it actually is. These take no skill to get and it seems like really lazy design.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  11. sarkwalvein

    sarkwalvein There's hope for a Xenosaga port.
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    I disagree. I consider that as true platforming as any other, and actually if you are up for the challenge you can probably skip most capturing by using advanced moves and jumps with Cappy if you feel like it and you're skilled enough. So I wouldn't say the capturing is compulsory.
    It is true that Tostarena features big open plain areas, but I don't find that bad design at all. Those worlds are fun.
    As I said before, it is suggested that you use them to do everything, but it is not compulsory in most cases and it can be skipped by skilful and clever platforming. That said, I find it good design to make use of the central "gimmick" as much as possible, that makes the game good. You can solve problems with different solutions anyway, even with different "captures".

    But there is a reason, to make it a challenge, and I find it rewarding.
    Super Mario 64 was great too, but the way stars and moons work are different. I like both to be honest.
    The main game is easy intentionally, that makes it accesible.
    If there was no challenge at all in the game, I would find it kind of boring.
    But while the main game is made easy, there is a lot around it that can give you a good challenge.
    Specially platforming, optional platforming. I find trying to do thing in unconventional faster ways and reaching places that really seem out of reach very rewarding.
    Also the after game provide a lot more challenge. This is the trend in Mario games, present an easy main game to make accessible and a challenging after game for everyone that looks for challenge, and I think this is actually good for all.
    I find pleasure in collecting all the moons, both hard ones and easy ones. I have to disagree with you on this one, based on the enjoyment I've been having.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  12. Proust

    Proust GBAtemp Regular
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    :vul1:
     
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  13. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    Lol, I gave just as much explanation why you were wrong as you gave to your list of "flaws." Again, your list was mostly just stuff that everybody else finds enjoyable. I'm starting to feel like you haven't played the game at all TBH.

    I'm a bigger PC fanboy than Nintendo fanboy, maybe you're just the kind of troll that ruins gaming in general. It must be something about Nintendo, because I don't see people trolling Sony games that receive high review scores like this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
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  14. RedBlueGreen

    RedBlueGreen GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    I've played through the entire main game. It's almost as if though what people enjoy is personal preference. Hmm, why could that be, it's not like taste is subjective is it? At least I'm actually supporting my argument instead of saying "No, other people like this so you're wrong". That's exactly why people like you are cancerous in the gaming community. Anybody who disagrees with you is objectively wrong and is a troll or didn't play the game.

    Note how I never once called it a bad game either. I consider it meh, it's passable but nothing I'd replay or dedicate any additional time to after beating it.

    But then again, I must be some troll for not joining in the circlejerk of giving things ridiculous amounts of praise. You've already proven my point by labelling people who don't give ridiculous unmerited scores and don't agree with you as "trolls".
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
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  15. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    Saying that you're supporting your argument repeatedly does not support your argument. You haven't elaborated any further, and you continue to pretend that I didn't already refute each of your points one by one.

    This is all you do. Because you have no real argument. The reality of the situation is that critics and fans alike love the game. That's not a "circlejerk," that's simply everybody disagreeing with you because you're wrong. Dunkey said in his review that if you don't feel something while playing this game, brush yourself off because you're dead inside. He might've been referring to you, bro. Yes, I realize the irony in the skull avatar.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
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  16. Polopop123

    Polopop123 Banned
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    Only real fault is there are too many moons. 880 is way too much, it’s tedious trying to get them all
     
  17. RedBlueGreen

    RedBlueGreen GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    Except that I've given examples and explained what I meant several times. That's more than sufficient support of an argument compared to the "No, you're wrong because other people like it" fan boy mentality you seem to be displaying.
     
  18. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    Apparently I need to jog your memory. Here's your post:

    And here's my post:

    Now, you're seriously going to tell me that your post was any longer or more detailed than mine? No, it wasn't. You simply can't think up a good way to defend your reasoning here, and I don't blame you. "Everything that everybody else finds great about the game is really what is terrible about the game" is shaky logical ground to stand on.
     
  19. RedBlueGreen

    RedBlueGreen GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    I have also made posts since that while you just keep using the same "Other people enjoy it so you're wrong" style argument.
     
  20. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    You started a conversation with someone else, I wasn't going to butt into it. I wouldn't say you're making a great case in that discussion either, though.
     
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