Yet again, Americans prove just how pathetic they are

[Hidoshi]

-It's called Imperialism. We aren't even the first country to do it. Before World War I, the four superpowers of Europe (in my opinion) were the complete and utter assholes of the world. It is because of Europe's mistakes our government felt a need to impose themselves in Europe's agenda. Look at the League of Nations after WWI: a complete failure. The United Nations was 100x more powerful because we were in it. Later called NATO, by the way (IIRC).
-Uh duh. Everyone hated Germany because of how strong they were. Everyone hated the Soviet Union. Everyone hated Japan. Everyone hated France. Everyone hated Great Britain before too. It's what people do when a country becomes powerful. It's just that we have had a combo of terrible presidents to go along with it.
-That's a judicial system. Every judicial system in the world is not perfect.
-Those are rather far fetched and aren't exactly relevant due to being such an extreme.
-WHAT?

No, it doesn't suck. You are just a little misguided. Remember: other countries aren't this country (simple, right?). Therefore, their opinions will be far more harsh. It's nationalism, pride, and (most unlikely) patriotism. Honestly, all countries have petty grievances with each other, I don't see why the US always has to be the center of attention. I don't see why the opinions are so poor either, we've saved Europe's ass three times; we aren't the only country doing poorer than usual right now.

You do know that you're talking about things BEFORE WWI (so almost 100 years ago). The reason America is 'always' the center of attention, because they bring it upon theirselves. And America is the center of attention NOW, because of the whole unnecessary war in Iraq and that they won't quit it. And your example of the countries behind hated are all in the past tense. They aren't seeking war with the world anymore, so people don't have a reason to hate them (except maybe the Soviet Union).

Every judirical system is not correct, that's true. I also dislike the juridical system here, but I think America's system is a lot worse than ours. To sue someone because of a failed argument and therefore extracting tons of money from them is just wrong.

 

[Uncle FEFL]

-It's called Imperialism. We aren't even the first country to do it. Before World War I, the four superpowers of Europe (in my opinion) were the complete and utter assholes of the world. It is because of Europe's mistakes our government felt a need to impose themselves in Europe's agenda. Look at the League of Nations after WWI: a complete failure. The United Nations was 100x more powerful because we were in it. Later called NATO, by the way (IIRC).
-Uh duh. Everyone hated Germany because of how strong they were. Everyone hated the Soviet Union. Everyone hated Japan. Everyone hated France. Everyone hated Great Britain before too. It's what people do when a country becomes powerful. It's just that we have had a combo of terrible presidents to go along with it.
-That's a judicial system. Every judicial system in the world is not perfect.
-Those are rather far fetched and aren't exactly relevant due to being such an extreme.
-WHAT?

No, it doesn't suck. You are just a little misguided. Remember: other countries aren't this country (simple, right?). Therefore, their opinions will be far more harsh. It's nationalism, pride, and (most unlikely) patriotism. Honestly, all countries have petty grievances with each other, I don't see why the US always has to be the center of attention. I don't see why the opinions are so poor either, we've saved Europe's ass three times; we aren't the only country doing poorer than usual right now.

You do know that you're talking about things BEFORE WWI (so almost 100 years ago). The reason America is 'always' the center of attention, because they bring it upon theirselves. And America is the center of attention NOW, because of the whole unnecessary war in Iraq and that they won't quit it. And your example of the countries behind hated are all in the past tense. They aren't seeking war with the world anymore, so people don't have a reason to hate them (except maybe the Soviet Union).

Every judirical system is not correct, that's true. I also dislike the juridical system here, but I think America's system is a lot worse than ours. To sue someone because of a failed argument and therefore extracting tons of money from them is just wrong.

We aren't the only ones fighting in the war.

I realize it's from past events, but the leaders of the world always seem to make the same mistakes. Not only that, but past tensions are still evident in today's society. It's somewhat natural for people to hate arrogance. We're arrogant, no doubt about that, so we're in the spotlight right now. I'm unsure of how long we'll stay there. Obama is trying very hard to change people's attitude about the world's problems, but too many Americans are too blind to do anything.

I agree.

 

[TrolleyDave]

Outsourcing isn't only done by the US.

Both economic systems will absolutely RUIN a country, not just capitalism. Our government is not in a mess because of capitalism, we're in a mess because our government is filled with greedy morons.

What's wrong with *failed* attempts to jump-start the economy?

I know the US isn't the only one who's outsourcing, the UK is just as guilty of it. I brought it up because Pliskron was trying to imply that the USA was in dire straits because of Obama and Socialism. The USA is one of the most anti-Socialist countries, how could Socialism have been the cause of the problems if it was never there. I was pointing out just a few of the more basic reasons why the USA economy was in the state it's in. I could have gone further into it, you know like about how most corporations have so many Senators in their pocket that they're the ones setting policies. Or about how the lobbyists managed to make a push for people to refinance their homes, then set such stupid rates that people couldn't pay and their houses were siezed. The US government allowed the corporations to very "flexible" on the amount of interest charged, so the corps could just raise it and raise it as they like.

Americas problems started with Nixon, who decided that while Capitalism works, extreme Capitalism worked better for the rich and the corporations. The problems really started getting bad during Regans days. Regan (like our PMs Blair and Brown) was very little more than a sock puppet for corporations. Have a study of all the things that Regan allowed the corporations to do. That was really the moment that the USA economy really started to take a nose dive.

And you're right, both political systems will absolutely bankrupt a country. Socialism will only work if the country is strong enough to have less expenditures than income. A solid manufacturing base and decent industrial sector is needed for it to work. There has to be high levels of employment, an understanding from the people that the country comes before the individual and that kind of thing.

I'll even admit that Capitalism works, until it becomes extreme Capitalism. Capitalism works when the rich are taxed heavily to help keep the country moving and the government keeps measures in place to make sure that the rich and greedy aren't allowed to set policy. Once a country based on Capitalism becomes a Corporatocracy (like America has become, as well as the UK now sadly) then it becomes extreme Capitalism and the Chicago School of Economics comes into play. Which is where America is really at now.

QUOTE(Uncle FEFL @ Mar 22 2010, 02:30 PM) We aren't the only ones fighting in the war.

I realize it's from past events, but the leaders of the world always seem to make the same mistakes. Not only that, but past tensions are still evident in today's society. It's somewhat natural for people to hate arrogance. We're arrogant, no doubt about that, so we're in the spotlight right now. I'm unsure of how long we'll stay there. Obama is trying very hard to change people's attitude about the world's problems, but too many Americans are too blind to do anything.

I agree.

I totally agree with this statement! The problem I find with alot of Americans is that they're blindly patriotic. They simply love their country, and when asked why they reel off a list of things that have been taught to them. They've also been taught to shun anything that sounds like it might be Communist/Socialist, without first examining whether it's actually good for the country or the people in it. Blind patriotism allows you to be led around like sheep, the UK has started suffering this problem recently as we've adopted more and more US style practices. Hell, it's so effective here that we might end up voting in the next Hitler in May/June. Shameful on the UK publics part and not something that would have happened 10 years ago.

 

[Pliskron]

Socialism = slavery to the government. You give them most of the money you work for and they decide how best to spend it. Liberals really are about micro managing every aspect of life for people. Telling what to eat, what to buy, what to look at, all for your own good. It's really fashistic. We must remember that Hitler was a socialist. All the worst actors in modern history were ether socialites or communists. It's all about control, money, and, power. On the other side you have personal and economic freedom. And I have to ad that it was under Bush and the Republicans that America was set on this disastrous path buy putting two wars and new entitlements on our national credit card. So it's not a one part issue it's both.

I'll tell you another thing it drives me nuts to have to pay for the health care of obese people who can't stop stuffing their mouths with shit and become diabetic. I chafe at the thought that I'm paying for my neighbors kids because that slut is using getting pregnant as a career path. Now I can't afford to have another child because I have to pay for everyone else's. I have to pay to keep a roof over some drug addicts head that lives down the street. I'm the one who gets penalized for working hard and being responsible. I'm all for safety nets, but not for subsidizing irresponsible behavior and that's what socialism does. The best intensions always have the worst consequences.

 

[Jamstruth]

-It's called Imperialism. We aren't even the first country to do it. Before World War I, the four superpowers of Europe (in my opinion) were the complete and utter assholes of the world. It is because of Europe's mistakes our government felt a need to impose themselves in Europe's agenda. Look at the League of Nations after WWI: a complete failure. The United Nations was 100x more powerful because we were in it. Later called NATO, by the way (IIRC).
UN is not NATO. NATO is a seperate entity from the UN and is a lot smaller. NATO stands for Northern Atlantic Treaty Organisation and comprises of most of Europe and North America. The UN is a much bigger organisation comprising of many of the world's countries.
Also I love how you're so self important in America "Everything sucks unless we're in it" -_-

QUOTE(Pliskron @ Mar 22 2010, 04:55 PM) Socialism = slavery to the government. You give them most of the money you work for and they decide how best to spend it. Liberals really are about micro managing every aspect of life for people. Telling what to eat, what to buy, what to look at, all for your own good. It's really fashistic. We must remember that Hitler was a socialist. All the worst actors in modern history were ether socialites or communists. It's all about control, money, and, power. On the other side you have personal and economic freedom.

Socialism is not slavery to the government. That is the extreme of it, there's pros and cons to both sides. Here in Britian I suppose we could be considered a Socialist country but we do still kick up a fuss over certain things like governments telling us what we can and can't do. In Capitalist countries everything seems a lot more unfair and big companies can spread very quickly and take over everything resulting in it being impossible to compete and set up a new business (from what I understand this is what would happen in a pure Capitalist state)
Both sides are about control, money and power. That's what all governmental systems are about. In my opinion capitalism is a very unfair system but that doesn't mean I'm a Communist (which looks very good on paper but can never work) as I like having my freedoms but I also like having free Health Care without the burden of finding a good Medical Insurance at the risk of being dropped on a whim.

Basically: You can take your pick but neither side is intrinsically good or evil. Both have the best intentions (most of the time.) Dictators do NOT count. Yes, Hitler was a Socialist but he believed vastly different things to many other people. The extreme of Socialism is a controlling Government hence why it seems that all the evil Dictators with their moustaches and and black capes all cultivate under the banner of Socialism.

 

[TrolleyDave]

Socialism = slavery to the government. You give them most of the money you work for and they decide how best to spend it. Liberals really are about micro managing every aspect of life for people. Telling what to eat, what to buy, what to look at, all for your own good. It's really fashistic. We must remember that Hitler was a socialist. All the worst actors in modern history were ether socialites or communists. It's all about control, money, and, power. On the other side you have personal and economic freedom. And I have to ad that it was under Bush and the Republicans that America was set on this disastrous path buy putting two wars and new entitlements on our national credit card. So it's not a one part issue it's both.

You sir are a fucking idiot. Socialism = slavery to the government? Socialism doesn't dictate what you should eat, wear, buy or anything like that. You need to put down your McCarthyism pamphlets and pick up a real book. What you're thinking of are FASCISTS. Socialism =/= Fascism. If under Socialism you're told what to wear then explain Minox, he looks like a pretty alternative guy and he lives in a Socialist country. Explain the punk movement in the UK, that happened under a Socialist government.

No personal and economic freedom under Socialism? Well explain the self-made millionaires in Socialist countries then? Do you think the government just said "Oh yeah, it's his turn to be rich today"? No, they worked hard and amassed a fortune. The only difference being they weren't allowed to fuck over anybody in their path. The workers were entitled to rights, decent working conditions etc. Or are you one of those that believes that companies should be allowed to treat their workers however they like? Or that companies should be allowed to pay a pittance to ensure profits are maximised?

All the worst actors in modern history have been socialist or communist? What the hell does political affiliation have to do with anything? Although I will applaud you for using the typical right-wing smear tactic. [big booming voice] "Socialism is eeeeevil. It makes bad actors" [/end] Give me a break, learn to think for yourself. It's a very liberating experience.

And for the record, Hitler was not a socialist any more than Bush believes in democracy. Hitler was a fascist. He wasn't a communist, socialist, democrat or any other political affiliation. He was a dictator who's only policy was an Aryan Europe. If Hitler was a socialist then explain The Night of the Long Knives.

And the US was set on a disastrous long before Bush Sr decided to invade Iraq. Americas economic crisis was started by Nixon who decided that corporations should be allowed to have Senators in their pockets and that US policy should favour the rich and the wealthy.

As for capitalism allowing you the economic freedom and the right to choose what you want to buy. Go down to your local cigar shop and ask to buy some Cuban cigars.

QUOTEI'll tell you another thing it drives me nuts to have to pay for the health care of obese people who can't stop stuffing their mouths with shit and become diabetic. I chafe at the thought that I'm paying for my neighbors kids because that slut is using getting pregnant as a career path. Now I can't afford to have another child because I have to pay for everyone else's. I have to pay to keep a roof over some drug addicts head that lives down the street. I'm the one who gets penalized for working hard and being responsible. I'm all for safety nets, but not for subsidizing irresponsible behavior and that's what socialism does. The best intensions always have the worst consequences.

Ah I see. So you're problem with socialised health care is that it forces you to adopt humanitarian values and to care about those around you? With socialised health care also comes the responsibility of education, education is necessary to stop people deciding that it's other peoples responsibility to look after them. There also lies a problem with the attitude of people like you. Why should you pay extra taxes in order to fund a school system that you might not use. After all, you know, why should people be educated. Education just leads to economic growth, new ideas, a stronger workforce and a more competitive industrial market. Shameful practices I'm sure you'll agree.

 

[Pliskron]

You're a fucking idiot. The state education system had been a failure. Social programs have been a failure. Social Security is bankrupt. I'm all for safety nets but not for funding all the bullshit that just makes people lazy and unproductive. Yes it is harder for me to become a millionaire when the government takes more that 50% of my income and lines the pockets of their political supporters then gives the rest to stupid bitches that can't be bothered to use birth control because they know they'll get my money. Thats the real social injustice. Any yes Hitler was a socialist he was head of the national socialist party. Yes socialists do tell you what to eat. They're trying to ban salt in restaurants right now. Yes they do tell you what to think. Look at the speech codes in schools. I can't own a skunk, or a double edged knife not that I want ether but tell me thats not micro managing a persons life.

I'll leave you with a quote from Ben Franklin
“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” – Ben Franklin

 

[emigre]

And for the record, Hitler was not a socialist any more than Bush believes in democracy. Hitler was a fascist. He wasn't a communist, socialist, democrat or any other political affiliation. He was a dictator who's only policy was an Aryan Europe. If Hitler was a socialist then explain The Night of the Long Knives.

To add to this point, to label Hitler a socialist is nohting more than a lazy attempt by theRight to discredit socialism. Hitler's idealogically wasn't a socilist or left wing at all, jus in party name. Hitler rose becasue teh Nazi party gained the support of the business class or the petty bourgoise. When you study membership of the facists parties you actually that membership was predominatly middle class with very little coming from what can be defined as working class. In addition Hitler banned the traditional left wing partyy, the SPD.

On the subject matter, I'm pleased to hear it got passed on humanitarian grounds though I'm not best pleased that its essenitally a watered down version of what Obama wanted. Though TBF its was the best he was going to get. Personally I beleive the best healthcare is one that is free as its usually more ethical. Admittedly the British system has slowly shifted from this perspective, but that's for another day.

UN=NATO- I just want to clarify that they are two differing organisations, the UN is liberal body which places emphasis on state co-operation which can use militery force whilst NATO is a pure militery force. Their origins are also completly diferent, the former was in the aftermath of WWII and replaced the League of Nations whilst the latter was due to the Cold War.

 

[megawalk]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/20/t...f_n_507116.html

Seriously. This kind of crap...really makes me want to just pack up and leave this country. Patriots can say whatever they want, but this country is garbage now. After 50 years...it STILL will only ever boil down to racism. Some of those signs literally make me want to puke.

"If Brown can't stop it, then a Browning can"? What? What the hell is wrong with people like this?

"Impeach Obama." Not really the message that's stupid, but really. Putting Obama down to Hitler's level? Hitler was a good leader, and a genocidal one. Obama isn't as good of a leader as he could be, and I've yet to see him go after entire groups of people with the single intent of killing them.

"Marxism is an Obama-Nation" I didn't know we were communist now. I didn't know that Marxism was actually bad. Communism as it is right now is bad, but Marxism at least had some good points to it...

"Undocumented Worker" Can people use their brains please? At least he was born in the damn states. Unlike some other old fogey's we know...

"No Voo-Doo Medicine" And religious "medicine" isn't the same thing? Again, people. USE YOUR BRAIN.

"Bye Bye blahblahblah Hello Socialism" Isn't Canada socialist? They're doing far better then we are, last I checked... This country is so...afraid of everything that stands for something better...

"Please don't $pend my future" and "Kill the Bill, Save the Babies". Using the kids as essential billboards just makes me want to punt that woman. Please. Someone let me. Then again, yet another person wanting to take away someone elses choice.

"Kill the bill or face the November Slaughter" Planning a riot, are we? Wait until 2012, please. Seriously though. Are people this fucking stupid?

Sometimes I wonder just how this country got to be anything big at all...

i got a quoto for these quoto's
"Act like Your age. Or else Re-educate at the Kindergarten"
thats my reply on these childish results.
if you can't show respect at all..
then "Beat It"

 

[DJ91990]

Okay first thing's first.
1)The USA Government is meant to look stupid so that it's people that complain look smarter.
2)2012 is crap and nothing is going to happen because in order of it to happen, the Temple of God needs to be built and the Muslims don't seem to like the idea of their holy temple being destroyed and The Temple of God being put in it's place. They have the date backwards!
3) Democrats and Republicans don't mean squat because the USA Governemt (rather we like it or not) is run by Congress.

It is not 2012 it is 2102! aprox. 50+ years after the HALO event.

 

[Jamstruth]

You sir are a fucking idiot. Socialism = slavery to the government?

Pliskron is either trolling or he really is a flippin' stereotype. I wouldn't waste your time arguing with him, he's completely indoctrinated against anything remotely Left Wing

 

[Tetram]

Any yes Hitler was a socialist he was head of the national socialist party.

The "socialist" part of "National socialist party" was not mean as "socialist" like in "socialist republic". It was here only as propaganda for the working class, and Hitler didn't do anything "socialistic". It's stupid to compare the supposed socialism of Obama and Hitler's.

For what it worth, from France, this Health care reform seems a very nice progress in your country. I understand your point about fat people, but it's only a few people : you don't know what will be your future, and in a country like USA, don't you think a shame that some people has to sacrifice their health because of the lack of money ? Don't you think it's a shame that the american dream may be forgotten just because you caught a bad cold, or because you broke your teeth ?

 

[Pliskron]

Now how exactly could Hitler, a man who was a strong supporter of social welfare programs, gun control, animal rights, government funding for the arts and bans against smoking in public get away with being called a “conservative”? Sounds like a modern progressive to me.

 

[Pliskron]

You sir are a fucking idiot. Socialism = slavery to the government?

Pliskron is either trolling or he really is a flippin' stereotype. I wouldn't waste your time arguing with him, he's completely indoctrinated against anything remotely Left Wing

This is point and counter point you obviously can't take the heat. Maybe you're "either trolling or he really is a flippin' stereotype" or intellectually so brittle you can't hear a strong counter argument.

 

[Jamstruth]

You sir are a fucking idiot. Socialism = slavery to the government?

Pliskron is either trolling or he really is a flippin' stereotype. I wouldn't waste your time arguing with him, he's completely indoctrinated against anything remotely Left Wing

This is point and counter point you obviously can't take the heat. Maybe you're "either trolling or he really is a flippin' stereotype" or intellectually so brittle you can't hear a strong counter argument.

Actually, I don't really know a hell of a lot about the Political System so can't form very hard arguments when I don't know the full extent of the meaning of words. I do however know enough to understand that you spend most of your time spewing bullshit. I'm just telling TrolleyDave how useless it is to argue with you. You'll never change your views and never do any research to see that you are firing crap from all orifices in this argument.

In other news I reckon a mod will probably take both these posts away for flaming and I welcome that. You're just incredibly close minded and not worth my time.

Edit: Also, "point and counter point"? Why would you make a point and counter it? There's only one point in that post and its gone as low as flaming me. Hell we already mentioned the Nazis, this argument isn't worthwhile.

 

[emigre]

Nobody said Hitler was a conservative, we just said he wasn't a socialist. His idealogy was based on ulltra-nationalism, facism and militarism. Whilst his economic and welfare policies were state led, it isn't deemed socilist due to teh fact it lacked universalism. In addition, the business class looked to the Nazi party for support becasue of thier fear of the communist were had a sizable number of seats in the Reichstag. Hence the use of the SA/Brownshirts to beat communist officials. Using violence and banning legitamite political organisations (the SPD) isn't exactly what mdern progression.

 

[dbkdbk]

I didn't know we Canadians were socialists....

 

[TrolleyDave]

You're a fucking idiot. The state education system had been a failure. Social programs have been a failure. Social Security is bankrupt. I'm all for safety nets but not for funding all the bullshit that just makes people lazy and unproductive. Yes it is harder for me to become a millionaire when the government takes more that 50% of my income and lines the pockets of their political supporters then gives the rest to stupid bitches that can't be bothered to use birth control because they know they'll get my money. Thats the real social injustice. Any yes Hitler was a socialist he was head of the national socialist party. Yes socialists do tell you what to eat. They're trying to ban salt in restaurants right now. Yes they do tell you what to think. Look at the speech codes in schools. I can't own a skunk, or a double edged knife not that I want ether but tell me thats not micro managing a persons life.

Americas state funded schooling system may have been a failure, but that doesn't mean all state funded education systems are failures. Up until Britain decided to become the next American state our school system was excellent. France, Sweden, Belgium, Spain also have an excellent education system. Canada's education system is state funded and is also excellent. Just because your country failed doesn't mean all the others have. Singapore pays for it's schooling system through taxation. Tell Dommy his education is failed, he seems a hell of alot smarter and well educated than most. So do most of the other Singaporeans on the temp.

So a social security system just makes people lazy and unproductive? So what you're saying is that nobody in Europe has a job because we all sit around claiming state benefits? Of course there will be those that sit around and sponge because they're too lazy. You have them in your country too, they're called inmates. Would it be better that these people turned to crime instead? Think of all those people who have been dealt a hand in life that means that no matter how hard they work they still will never get off that bottom rung of the ladder. To survive they have no other choice but to turn to crime. Do we have crime in the UK? Of course we do. But with our benefits some people that might be forced to turn to crime aren't under that pressure. Does it have its problems? Of course, but nowhere near the social problems if it didn't exist. Oh and if you want a nice simple way to counter the sponging and lazy argument. If socialism creates a nation of lazy people who don't want to better themselves then explain the fact that the UK doesn't have a 100% unemployment rate, nor does France, Belgium, Spain, Italy, Holland, Germany etc.

And further on the Hitler thing. The actual full title of the Nazi party was The National Socialist Democratic Workers Party. So does that mean that Democracy is terrible, because you know - Hitler was a Democrat.

QUOTEI'll leave you with a quote from Ben Franklin
“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.” – Ben Franklin

A quote from a rich guy who owned slaves made hundreds of years ago is relevant why?

 

[BlueStar]

Excellent news America, the current system was absolutely retarded, how does it make any business sense to insure, or continue to insure the health of someone that's ill? How are you supposed to do all this "pull yourself up by your bootstraps, make something of yourself even if you start off with nothing" type stuff if you're absolutely screwed and uninsurable if you become ill before you've earned enough to get yourself on one of the vastly artificially overpriced schemes offered by the anti-free market, uncompetitive cabal of companies that have a monopoly stranglehold on healthcare in the US at the moment?

Oh, and Pliskron...

 

[emigre]

Pliskron did make me laugh though, the fact is was so sterotypically right wing was brilliant.

Teh real funny thing is that a ot of the world's best education and health systems actually are funded by taxation. Education health

Oh btx, for an economy to grow and become stronger you need more people becoming educated in the age mental work. The US system may not be working but that's just the problem of the US to be concerned with. In Swedan, the state education is excellent and you can see how that aids the Swedish economy.