Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[Ace Overclocked]

As much as i want all of the ap to get removed, this thread is getting ridiculous

 

[nokillmonkeys]

Don't be ridiculous. He isn't punishing anyone. He also didn't code it to not work for legitimate users, it just has some bugs.

Don't be ridiculous. He's punishing some legitimate users (broken drive, scratched games, etc) by lumping them in with the pirates. They aren't trying to pirate games, but are being treated as if they are; that is a punishment. And that works exactly as he intended (coded).

 

[air2004]

I'm not trying to bash the guy ... Seriously not at all. I just dont understand his reasoning , and I won't speculate on it.
But for everyone to say its his app and he can do what he wants with it , while that is true , its a lame excuse.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Don't be ridiculous. He isn't punishing anyone. He also didn't code it to not work for legitimate users, it just has some bugs.

Don't be ridiculous. He's punishing some legitimate users (broken drive, scratched games, etc) by lumping them in with the pirates. They aren't trying to pirate games, but are being treated as if they are; that is a punishment. And that works exactly as he intended (coded).

Them being in the same position as they were before he released the AP (which is, still having the ability to play games via DIOS MIOS) is not punishment. I can't play my scratched discs with it, but I'm not whining about it.

 

[nokillmonkeys]

Them being in the same position as they were before he released the AP (which is, still having the ability to play games via DIOS MIOS) is not punishment. I can't play my scratched discs with it, but I'm not whining about it.

They're in the same position as they were before because tueidj chooses them to be. While everyone else is off enjoying Devolution, those with broken drives and scratched discs cannot, and that is tueidj's choice. He is choosing to cut off legitimate users who would otherwise be able to enjoy his application because their conditions are similar to those of a pirate. That's punishment, penalty, whatever. "You aren't allowed to do...because...".

 

[Foxi4]

It is true that there are some AP measures, but at the same time, the source for the loader is openly available. Anyone can go ahead and remove them in their build, provided that they have the skill to do so.

The developer doesn't want his work to be used in illegal activities - if you want to then it's your choice and you can go on ahead and start changing the code. The original source includes AP measures, but that doesn't mean that a modded version won't surface.

Isn't what the devolper did illeagal ?

No, why would it be? It's his own code, there is nothing that has been copied over, stolen or modified - it's simply a "patch" that works over the Wii's standard loading methods.

While this of course varies from country to country, in most this kind of a program is perfectly legal.

Them being in the same position as they were before he released the AP (which is, still having the ability to play games via DIOS MIOS) is not punishment. I can't play my scratched discs with it, but I'm not whining about it.

They're in the same position as they were before because tueidj chooses them to be. While everyone else is off enjoying Devolution, those with broken drives and scratched discs cannot, and that is tueidj's choice. He is choosing to cut off legitimate users who would otherwise be able to enjoy his application because their conditions are similar to those of a pirate. That's punishment, penalty, whatever. "You aren't allowed to do...because...".

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette - how many people with scratched discs are there compared to the amount of people who simply want to use pirated content? 1% vs 99%? If we're lucky.

I'd enjoy a non-AP version of this application myself - don't get me wrong. I pirate and I'm not ashamed to admit that, but I can see why he did what he did.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Them being in the same position as they were before he released the AP (which is, still having the ability to play games via DIOS MIOS) is not punishment. I can't play my scratched discs with it, but I'm not whining about it.

They're in the same position as they were before because tueidj chooses them to be. While everyone else is off enjoying Devolution, those with broken drives and scratched discs cannot, and that is tueidj's choice. He is choosing to cut off legitimate users who would otherwise be able to enjoy his application because their conditions are similar to those of a pirate. That's punishment, penalty, whatever. "You aren't allowed to do...because...".

You are so dramatic. He could have just not released it. I don't think you really understand what punishment is. When you were little and you disobeyed your parents, did they say "As punishment, I won't give you this $20"?

Really, it's not that bad. Apparently I'm being "punished", so shouldn't I be crying like you as well?

 

[nokillmonkeys]

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette - how many people with scratched discs are there compared to the amount of people who simply want to use pirated content? 1% vs 99%? If we're lucky.

I'd enjoy a non-AP version of this application myself - don't get me wrong. I pirate and I'm not ashamed to admit that, but I can see why he did what he did.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the implementation exists as it does, but that doesn't make it right; is it worth cutting off legitimate users to "stop piracy"? From there, the question becomes "What is the advantage of my program preventing unauthorized games to be played?"

"Am I trying to keep money in the hands of the developers?". The answer is obviously no, since developers no longer see Gamecube money.
"Am I trying to prevent others from "breaking the law"?" Sure, that's a reason, but "because it's the law" isn't always a good reason (and in this case I would argue that it's not; sometimes it's akin to "I'm going to jump off this bridge because my friends did"). Nevermind that this is U.S. law, on a global internet, where people from all different countries will have access to his program.
"Do I want to disallow those in third world countries or those in other unfortunate circumstances from using my program?" Well, probably not, but who knows.
"Am I trying to encourage second-hand sales of Gamecube games?" It's possible, but unlikely to have any such effect on second-hand sales, since an especially determined individual who wants to pirate does have other options available.

There's really only one "advantage" to such a design, so I'd argue that his program has AP either because he is using emotional thinking in regards to the law, or simply because "because I can". Although just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I could delve even deeper into the second reason and flesh it out, but I won't here.

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[kineticUk]

You are so dramatic. He could have just not released it.

Exactly, sounds this is being taken way too personally... I don't think tueidj purposely wants to stop someone whose disc is scratched or drive is broken from using devolution seriously?... but it is his program and its not his problem,

What is the developer meant to do if your gc disc or drive is bust up?

 

[JoostinOnline]

Obviously in regards to the law. He doesn't want his programs to contribute towards piracy. I might feel the same way if I was in his position. It's a moral thing. Considering his stand against piracy (I don't know how much you know about different developers, since your join date for one forum doesn't really mean anything) has always been quite strong, I'm surprised he even made a backup loader. That he made it a one-time-verification is really pushing it to the limit. The most I would have expected is a requirement to always have the disc inserted.

 

[Rydian]

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the implementation exists as it does, but that doesn't make it right;

Last I checked the author was not required to give a shit about other people's morals.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the implementation exists as it does, but that doesn't make it right;

Last I checked the author was not required to give a shit about other people's morals.

You missed the meeting on Tuesday, that was changed.

 

[Rydian]

Don't get me wrong, I understand why the implementation exists as it does, but that doesn't make it right;

Last I checked the author was not required to give a shit about other people's morals.

You missed the meeting on Tuesday, that was changed.

Oh christ, I don't have to wear pants now, do I?

 

[chop]

Once the dust has settled, I thing it would be ace if tueidj and Crediar put their weight behing emu_kidd to get wii64 blowing steam

 

[nokillmonkeys]

Last I checked the author was not required to give a shit about other people's morals.

Of course he doesn't have to care about my opinion, fool; that doesn't make my criticism any less valid or unfounded. My posts are simply one valid viewpoint that I feel is in the interest of everyone. There are quite obviously conflicting viewpoints, and the point of an argument is to make the other side change views, and the best way to argue is by using logic. Whether you, tueidj, or anyone else is susceptible to my logic doesn't concern me.

 

[Rydian]

Last I checked the author was not required to give a shit about other people's morals.

Of course he doesn't have to care about my opinion, fool; that doesn't make my criticism any less valid or unfounded. My posts are simply one valid viewpoint that I feel is in the interest of everyone. There are quite obviously conflicting viewpoints, and the point of an argument is to make the other side change views, and the best way to argue is by using logic.

That's not what you posted though... you posted that his decisions are wrong because they do not comply with YOUR morals.

That doesn't matter, though. You did not write this, he did.

If you want something like this that conforms to your morals, feel free to write it. All the tools to hack and develop on/for a Wii are free.

 

[nokillmonkeys]

That's not what you posted though... you posted that his decisions are wrong because they do not comply with YOUR morals.

That doesn't matter, though. You did not write this, he did.

If you want something like this that conforms to your morals, feel free to write it. All the tools to hack and develop on/for a Wii are free.

I'm saying that his decision is wrong because it is logically flawed when you ask "Why prevent the use of unauthorized copies in my program?", and look at that question logically. I already did that back a page, so I'm not going to do that again here.

"Because I can" is not a good answer. I'd love, love, love to hear his reasoning behind doing so.

 

[Rydian]

~

He's publicly to piracy and wants to take steps to help stop it.

 

[nokillmonkeys]

He's publicly to piracy and wants to take steps to help stop it.

I know he is, and that's why I said I'd love to know why he is, especially in this Gamecube case. He didn't wake up one day and just decide "Gamecube piracy in 2012 must be stopped deterred".

 

[JoostinOnline]

~

He's publicly to piracy and wants to take steps to help stop it.

Or at least avoid promoting it.