What sources back up the anti-vaccine movement?

[subcon959]

The data is clear that vaccination is worth the risk in lower age groups. The issue is whether or not boosters are worth the risk.

Rather than argue, I'm going to ask a personal question which you are free to not answer. Do you have a son aged between 12-15?

 

[The Catboy]

I am starting to feel that there are no sources, just cherry-picking and fair mongering

 

[stanleyopar2000]

Facebook and hive mind echo chambered stupidity

 

[SG854]

God backs the Anti-Vax movement since he created covid. You guys are messing with God's plan and his corona virus creation.

 

[mightymuffy]

Do you have any proof that these vaccines contain aborted fetuses?

....Do you have any proof they don't? (I'm double vaxxed by the way) And if you so-called do, was this told to you by a family member or similar who actually made it, or simply 'someone reputable' *snigger*

I take it you're the OP of this latest clusterfuck.... lemme guess, when the Activision/Blizzard harassment topic was 'hot' you were one of the ones screaming "I'm going to boycott Activision products coz I think it's a good idea, and I'm a good person - if you don't boycott them with me that makes you a bad person!" Yes? No? Well you sound like one of them here...

Once again, what the flying fukk is wrong with us all these days?! Ooh look at me, I've done my part, I'm anti-vaxxed, I'm just freakin awesome, I'm gonna call everyone who isn't double vaxxed yet a trash human [since I've nothing better to do]. Some on here even going as far as (cause of death or not) slagging a member off who recently lost a loved one because he hinted it might have had something to do with the vaccine?! No 'sorry for your loss' or anything, just 'hah you're wrong, must've died of cancer not the vaccine, you moron!' ....Jesus Fukkin Christ....

 

[HollowGrams]

Flu vaccine 78+ years old and we still have the flu. Cannabis can't be fully legalized cause it needs more testing. Yet....

 

[The Catboy]

....Do you have any proof they don't? (I'm double vaxxed by the way)
Garbage, literal garbage

Please don’t shift the burden of proof onto me. The request was proof of aborted fetus’ in vaccines, that shouldn’t be too much to ask for.

 

[mightymuffy]

Please don’t shift the burden of proof onto me. The request was proof of aborted fetus’ in vaccines, that shouldn’t be too much to ask for.

- K then, let's rephrase it.... Let's pretend whoever the geezer was that said it was right (and come on, I don't believe it for a second either!) - and there really is aborted fetus stuff in the vaccines... where in hell is he gonna GET proof of this? Is Bill Gates himself gonna strut up on stage and say "Hey y'all, he's right, there ARE bits of dead babies in the vaccine!"
Ssooo yeah, think about it for a second, that kind of IS too much to ask for... rather like your original question, voiced many times before you created the topic, on here, all over the internet, yadda yadda... you've been double vaxxed, 'well done', you're now ~80% less likely to catch a virus you're only ~30% likely to develop symptoms for, and ~99% likely to survive even if you do develop symptoms. Be proud of yourself perhaps, but for God's sake respect the decision of those who choose not to be jabbed! Unless they're shoving it down our throats, which isn't happening on this forum, so....

 

[The Catboy]

- K then, let's rephrase it.... Let's pretend whoever the geezer was that said it was right (and come on, I don't believe it for a second either!) - and there really is aborted fetus stuff in the vaccines... where in hell is he gonna GET proof of this? Is Bill Gates himself gonna strut up on stage and say "Hey y'all, he's right, there ARE bits of dead babies in the vaccine!"
Ssooo yeah, think about it for a second, that kind of IS too much to ask for...

I’m not entertaining any hypothetical. The claim was vaccines were created with aborted fetuses, I would like to see actual proof to that claim. If there is no proof, then it’s conspiracy garbage until proven otherwise

 

[DonCaballero]

 

[appleburger]

@The Catboy The closest you're going to get to a peer reviewed paper that "backs up" anti vaxers, and by that I only mean the paper that most of them will try and use to back up their argument, is going to be Andrew Wakefield's. It's been redacted for obvious reasons, but it's worth a read if you're genuinely curious in what info the other side is at least attempting to offer as evidence.

Also worth pointing out that these studies are not intended to "back up" anything, anyway. That's going to depend on what your tolerance for credible evidence is.

Other papers are for out dated vaccines. A fool could cite those to back up claims on newer ones, too, you know?

Someone could use this particular paper to back up either "pro-vax" or "anti-vax", depending on one's reading comprehension skills and just generally how competent they are at referencing data to back up a point.

As you've clearly already seen in this thread, people can look at clearly strong data driven points and completely misinterpret what's going on (and even completely screw up people's points on here that are explicitly written out).

So, I strongly recommend just going through that paper as a starting point if you want to see what's going on with the other side of the argument. Assuming you're not an idiot, it'll be pretty clear why there are no other papers anti-vaxers are willing to quote (that are peer reviewed and published by a well recognized institution, at least)

 

[smf]

but in healthy children it's a bit less clear cut if it's worth the risk. Obviously this will change once more data is available.

Right, there aren't enough healthy children that have been vaccinated, to really work out what risk (if any) they have of myocarditis.

The people who get myocarditis might have gone on to get it if they'd been infected with covid19, or for some other reason

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...d-pericarditis-following-covid-19-vaccination

It may even have been present before the vaccine.

 

[smf]

....Do you have any proof they don't?

Do you have any proof you don't eat aborted foetus?

If it were created with aborted foetus and it was a huge secret, then some random is unlikely to even know it unless they had some proof, which there doesn't seem to be any. It seems to be a misunderstanding (like all good conspiracy theories)

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/y...covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells

 

[smf]

These are world-renowned pathologists who have been involved in determining causes of death for many years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

They could be world renowned pathologists who are also tin foil hat wearers & have had their judgement skewed.

I agree that it's something that needs an unbiased investigation.

 

[smf]

God backs the Anti-Vax movement since he created covid. You guys are messing with God's plan and his corona virus creation.

It's Noah's ark 2.0, only the good will get vaxxed and the rest swept away.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

The data is clear that vaccination is worth the risk in lower age groups. The issue is whether or not boosters are worth the risk.

"Is worth the risk" is an opinion.
Imagine you could save thousands of lives by shooting down a plane with a hundred (or less) innocent passengers. Whether it is "worth it" is not a question of science. After 9/11 some courts ruled that you cannot act in this way to balance out lives. There is no right answer.

 

[The Catboy]

"Is worth the risk" is an opinion.
Imagine you could save thousands of lives by shooting down a plane with a hundred (or less) innocent passengers. Whether it is "worth it" is not a question of science. After 9/11 some courts ruled that you cannot act in this way to balance out lives. There is no right answer.

Cool story, not a source.
This thread shouldn’t be such a shit show with the apparent “evidence” that anti-vaxxors claim to have. I am literally just asking for some sources that are verified, that’s it. No cherry picking or mental gymnastics.

 

[Dakitten]

There cannot by definition. I already explained it many times.
I could open a thread in which I demand sources "backing up the vaccination movement".
If somebody was stupid enough to post links I could say "yeah, but 99% of people survive and the average age of death is similar to life expectancy". "Are there really no sources"? "WOOOW THERE ARE NO SOURCES"

You act like a clown.

That said I am not in the anti-vac camp. I just find both camps ridiculous.

Congratulations, that wins you isolation from either side and some crotch-burn from grinding that fence like a baus. You do you.

"Is worth the risk" is an opinion.
Imagine you could save thousands of lives by shooting down a plane with a hundred (or less) innocent passengers. Whether it is "worth it" is not a question of science. After 9/11 some courts ruled that you cannot act in this way to balance out lives. There is no right answer.

Correction: You cannot morally conclude one action is superior to the other. By the maths, there is a tragic but clear superior outcome. If you want to proclaim that "THINK OF THE CHiLdReN! Even if only one in ten thousand dies, that could be YOUR baby!" is a scientific point of view, you're doing it wrong, comrade.

....Do you have any proof they don't? (I'm double vaxxed by the way) And if you so-called do, was this told to you by a family member or similar who actually made it, or simply 'someone reputable' *snigger*

I take it you're the OP of this latest clusterfuck.... lemme guess, when the Activision/Blizzard harassment topic was 'hot' you were one of the ones screaming "I'm going to boycott Activision products coz I think it's a good idea, and I'm a good person - if you don't boycott them with me that makes you a bad person!" Yes? No? Well you sound like one of them here...

Once again, what the flying fukk is wrong with us all these days?! Ooh look at me, I've done my part, I'm anti-vaxxed, I'm just freakin awesome, I'm gonna call everyone who isn't double vaxxed yet a trash human [since I've nothing better to do]. Some on here even going as far as (cause of death or not) slagging a member off who recently lost a loved one because he hinted it might have had something to do with the vaccine?! No 'sorry for your loss' or anything, just 'hah you're wrong, must've died of cancer not the vaccine, you moron!' ....Jesus Fukkin Christ....

I dunno what dumpster you crawled out of with your edgelord ego, but please keep your projection to yourself. I can't say I've seen anybody mention losing a family member and getting flamed in this thread, so I've got to assume it happened elsewhere, and that is that and this is this.

 

[Lacius]

"Is worth the risk" is an opinion.
Imagine you could save thousands of lives by shooting down a plane with a hundred (or less) innocent passengers. Whether it is "worth it" is not a question of science. After 9/11 some courts ruled that you cannot act in this way to balance out lives. There is no right answer.

What I meant was the negative consequences associated with COVID-19, regardless of age and comorbidities, are significantly more likely than any of the significant risks associated with the vaccine. This isn't a matter of opinion.

Booster shots for most young people may not be worth any risk if there aren't significant consequences associated with young people not getting a third shot.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

What I meant was the negative consequences associated with COVID-19, regardless of age and comorbidities, are significantly more likely than any of the significant risks associated with the vaccine. This isn't a matter of opinion.

-How much more likely it is depends on the age group; which is why we don´t give the vaccine to young children
-You are assuming that a person gets COVID19; it is not a given; future variants might be more difficult to dodge but they will probably be less dangerous

So whether somebody has to take it, remains an opinion. If I had a company to run I would fire those who do not take it. That´s also an opinion and should not be outlawed.