Trump allegedly indicted in a Georgia 2020 subversion probe

[lolcatzuru]

A lawsuit has already been filed in Florida to remove his eligibility for office under the 14th amendment, and even members of the conservative Federalist Society concur.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2023/0...use-of-his-role-in-insurrection-lawsuit-says/

they are welcome to do so, they can have fun having it dismissed

 

[AgentSkyblueM7]

I can just imagine what the trial could be like this time:

 

[Xzi]

Civil forfeiture is a bitch, ain’t it? This applies to the police too, by the way.

When talking about the general public, it applies almost exclusively to the police. They're the ones commonly used as the enforcement arm of corporations and capitalists, not IRS agents who are few in number. I'm all for cracking down hard on police corruption nationwide, but that's potentially an even bigger mountain to climb than enforcing tax collection on the wealthy.

they are welcome to do so, they can have fun having it dismissed

Maybe, Florida judges are still Florida people after all. Thing is, a similar lawsuit can be filed in every one of the fifty states, and if Trump's name is taken off the ballot in even one or two battleground states, it's game over for his campaign. Good odds for democracy winning this one.

 

[Foxi4]

When talking about the general public, it applies almost exclusively to the police. They're the ones commonly used as the enforcement arm of corporations and capitalists, not IRS agents who are few in number. I'm all for cracking down hard on police corruption nationwide, but that's potentially an even bigger mountain to climb than enforcing tax collection on the wealthy.

I *just* showed you an article listing multiple cases where the opposite is true - the IRS absolutely does use civil asset forfeiture as one of their tricks. It does affect small businesses who, as per the article, haven’t actually done anything wrong besides making deposits that the IRS thinks are too small (and thus suspicious for *some reason* (even though they’re made by a small business, so they’re understandably small), and the median amount of seized money is *twenty times* higher than in the study regarding forfeitures performed by the police. I don’t know why you’re even arguing this point at all, the government *stealing from citizens* in broad daylight without actually charging them with a crime is unacceptable, anyone involved in this kind of conduct should be tarred and feathered, whether they’re with the police or with internal revenue. It’s unconstitutional bullshit, as ruled in some local jurisdictions. You are now going to see more of it because the administration thought it prudent to hire more armed boogeymen to harass and rob people, and you’re clapping along thinking they’ll go after billionaires. They’re not going to go after billionaires, I don’t know what else to tell you.

 

[Xzi]

I don’t know why you’re even arguing this point at all, the government *stealing from citizens* in broad daylight without actually charging them with a crime is unacceptable, anyone involved in this kind of conduct should be tarred and feathered.

Absolutely, I just don't believe for a moment that neocons are concerned about what happens to the little guy. Their loyalty is to their corporate and billionaire sugar daddies, so when they go nuclear over Biden's expansion of the IRS, you know it's because they perceive it as a threat to those sponsors.

 

[Foxi4]

Absolutely, I just don't believe for a moment that neocons are concerned about what happens to the little guy. Their loyalty is to their corporate and billionaire sugar daddies, so when they go nuclear over Biden's expansion of the IRS, you know it's because they perceive it as a threat to those sponsors.

Oh lawd, this ties right back to my earlier rant, it’s always “yes, but” with you. I think the police and the IRS stealing from people (and it is theft, blatantly so, in violation of three separate constitutional amendments) is wrong, you think it’s wrong, but you have to make it a partisan issue. If you Americans focused on what’s fucked up about your government more and on the colours you’re wearing less, maybe the fed wouldn’t be such an authoritarian monster, but you can’t help yourself. Instead of smacking the bad agency on the nose with a newspaper you approve of further militarising it by giving it a bunch of free money and guns to harass and intimidate people with, I don’t understand how that makes one lick of sense. In my neck of the woods gross misconduct and poor performance gets you a disciplinary and a pay cut.

 

[Xzi]

If you Americans focused on what’s fucked up about your government more and on the colours you’re wearing less, maybe the fed wouldn’t be such an authoritarian monster, but you can’t help yourself.

By far the most fucked up thing about our government is that one of two parties wants to turn us into 1930s Germany. Do I enjoy having to settle for what few crumbs of progressivism centrists are willing to dole out? Fuck no, but it's better than gambling on the loss of everything the US is supposed to represent.

The "authoritarian monster" you speak of is the oligarchy, and it wants nothing more than to eliminate every government agency which might oppose it from the inside. Bad actors should be tossed from every agency, sure, but you can't just throw out the baby with the bath water. Unless it's the DEA, now there's a gaggle of useless wankers wasting taxpayer money.

 

[Foxi4]

By far the most fucked up thing about our government is that one of two parties wants to turn us into 1930s Germany. Do I enjoy having to settle for what few crumbs of progressivism centrists are willing to dole out? Fuck no, but it's better than gambling on the loss of everything the US is supposed to represent.

The "authoritarian monster" you speak of is the oligarchy, and it wants nothing more than to eliminate every government agency which might oppose it from the inside. Bad actors should be tossed from every agency, sure, but you can't just throw out the baby with the bath water. Unless it's the DEA, now there's a gaggle of useless wankers wasting taxpayer money.

Heh… I really, really hope you’ll grow out of this attitude at some point in your life. You can be a really smart guy when you open up a bit to different ideas, but when you’re wearing blinders like this it’s really tiring to discuss anything of import with you.

To show that I put my money where my mouth is, the DEA are scumbags, the ATF and the TSA are in the same bucket. If these are the kinds of cuts you’re proposing in regards to government spending then you pick the meeting spot and I’ll start painting some cool signs for us.

 

[Xzi]

Heh… I really, really hope you’ll grow out of this attitude at some point in your life. You can be a really smart guy when you open up a bit to different ideas, but when you’re wearing blinders like this it’s really tiring to discuss anything of import with you.

It'd be different if we were discussing topics in a vacuum, starting from absolute neutral zero. That's not the reality of things, however. We're at an inflection point in American politics which creates a lot of no-win scenarios. Maybe in ten years we'll be past it, maybe we'll just sink even further into the mud. Much of the outcome hinges on whether we're willing and capable of holding one particular oligarch accountable for his actions in the here and now.

 

[RetroGen]

It'd be different if we were discussing topics in a vacuum, starting from absolute neutral zero. That's not the reality of things, however. We're at an inflection point in American politics which creates a lot of no-win scenarios. Maybe in ten years we'll be past it, maybe we'll just sink even further into the mud.

That's the thing... the electoral system is set up so that voters don't have a choice to "blow up the system" and make a libertarian utopia. Instead, they are forced to choose between the lesser of two evils due to FPTP, gerrymandering, etc.... The rightwing instinct is to eliminate government wherever and whenever possible, whilst simultaneously voting in corrupt politicians who populate the swamp with their cronies and removing checks and balances built into the system. The answer is not less government so much as just, democratically responsible, government.

There are good reasons why the Nordic nations are better run, have less corruption, and better health care, etc... and a large part of it is because their democratic systems are actually more democratic, giving voters real choices, and making it more difficult for corrupt officials to govern, unlike the USA, UK, Canada, etc... where the choice is closer to either "more corruption" or "less corruption". Trump filled the swamp to unprecedented levels with some of the most dystopian choices for government positions, so anyone who supports Trumpism is clearly not interested in just, qualified, governance, regardless of how many paragraphs they type proclaiming otherwise.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

libertarian utopia

*dystopia, since libertarianism is incompatible with common wellbeing, it always degenerates into a far west, mob rule situation.

 

[TomSwitch]

That's the thing... the electoral system is set up so that voters don't have a choice to "blow up the system" and make a libertarian utopia. Instead, they are forced to choose between the lesser of two evils due to FPTP, gerrymandering, etc.... The rightwing instinct is to eliminate government wherever and whenever possible, whilst simultaneously voting in corrupt politicians who populate the swamp with their cronies and removing checks and balances built into the system. The answer is not less government so much as just, democratically responsible, government.

There are good reasons why the Nordic nations are better run, have less corruption, and better health care, etc... and a large part of it is because their democratic systems are actually more democratic, giving voters real choices, and making it more difficult for corrupt officials to govern, unlike the USA, UK, Canada, etc... where the choice is closer to either "more corruption" or "less corruption". Trump filled the swamp to unprecedented levels with some of the most dystopian choices for government positions, so anyone who supports Trumpism is clearly not interested in just, qualified, governance, regardless of how many paragraphs they type proclaiming otherwise.

All western medicine are poison one form or another. No body should ingest them unless sick and only when the benefits out weight the cost.

Trump is for sure a poison. Whether the benefits out weight the cost is another discussion.

Between Biden and Trump is it a choice between war with Russian & China and war with China only? I think war is not inevitable but with these two I think it is. If the choice is only these two war with one less country is good? Probably a choice between world war or US and China war or maybe even a smaller war that Trump just fought to remain in power with as little casualty as possible.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

All western medicine are poison one form or another. No body should ingest them unless sick and only when the benefits out weight the cost.

Trump is for sure a poison. Whether the benefits out weight the cost is another discussion.

Is your IQ room temperature?

 

[TomSwitch]

Is your IQ room temperature?

You are now resorting to insult when you can't argue? This kind of behavior should be banned.

 

[Xzi]

Between Biden and Trump is it a choice between war with Russian & China and war with China only?

Russia has just about suffered a total loss in Ukraine, there's no reason for the US to get involved directly. Taiwan is of massive importance to US interests though, we would have no choice but to respond to an invasion in some capacity, regardless of who is president at the time.

 

[RetroGen]

*dystopia, since libertarianism is incompatible with common wellbeing, it always degenerates into a far west, mob rule situation.

Sure, right libertarianism is a (hash) pipe dream. I'm more of a left libertarian... want minimal state intervention in personal freedoms with strong civil rights, but some government control over corporations and policy that is informed by scientists and experts, not rightwing ideologues and their sycophants. The economy is secondary to the environment and only important so long as it serves the well being of citizens; if we destroy the environment, there's no economy, so our priorities should be clear, and rightwing politics rejects this.

 

[Xzi]

Sure, right libertarianism is a (hash) pipe dream. I'm more of a left libertarian... want minimal state intervention in personal freedoms with strong civil rights, but some government control over corporations and policy that is informed by scientists and experts, not rightwing ideologues and their sycophants. The economy is secondary to the environment and only important so long as it serves the well being of citizens; if we destroy the environment, there's no economy, so our priorities should be clear, and rightwing politics rejects this.

Yep, a whole lot of people will be changing their tune on taxing the wealthy when the realization finally sinks in it's either that or the extinction of the human species. We'll need to adapt our infrastructure and technologies to the heating atmosphere quickly, and it's only just that the billionaires and corporations who have the biggest carbon footprint contribute the most toward keeping us out of the frying pan. They're the only ones who can contribute enough to reach that goal, so at some point the decision is likely to be taken out of their hands.

 

[TraderPatTX]

Darn you getting this back on topic.

Yeah, Trump is hilariously screwed. All his presidency will be undone, all his dodgy business dealings will be prosecuted.

At least that is the dream of the remaining sane people.


https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf

Are the walls closing in or is it the beginning of the end for dRumpf?

Been hearing it for 7 years, but for sure you got him this time, right?

Post automatically merged: Aug 29, 2023

Yep, a whole lot of people will be changing their tune on taxing the wealthy when the realization finally sinks in it's either that or the extinction of the human species. We'll need to adapt our infrastructure and technologies to the heating atmosphere quickly, and it's only just that the billionaires and corporations who have the biggest carbon footprint contribute the most toward keeping us out of the frying pan. They're the only ones who can contribute enough to reach that goal, so at some point the decision is likely to be taken out of their hands.

Imagine being so stupid to believe that 1) raising taxes will save the Earth and 2) that the uniparty in each country are going to tax their biggest donors.

So far, taking money from people and giving it to the government has not solved poverty, fixed education, gotten people off of drugs, fixed our infrastructure or saved the environment.

 

[Xzi]

Imagine being so stupid to believe that 1) raising taxes will save the Earth and 2) that the uniparty in each country are going to tax their biggest donors.

Imagine being such a bootlicker that in a life or death scenario you'd choose preserving someone else's wealth over your own survival. The Earth will be fine eventually no matter what happens. Humanity, not so much. The "uniparty" won't be able to do anything to stop the masses from seeking justice if whole countries become uninhabitable and food/clean water becomes scarce.

So far, taking money from people and giving it to the government has not solved poverty, fixed education, gotten people off of drugs, fixed our infrastructure or saved the environment.

Because our tax money is wasted on corporate welfare instead, and dipshits like you fight to keep things that way.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

You are now resorting to insult when you can't argue? This kind of behavior should be banned.

Then you shouldn't spout nonsense, both medical or political.