To American Atheists

[Foxi4]

By the way... I have just one question to "American Atheists". If they don't believe in God in any form or in any supernatural powers whatsoever... why do they care? For them, it should just be two girders.

We don't see muslims protesting againts it, we don't see jews protesting againts it, the only noisy dogs we hear barking are those for whom the cross means absolutely zilch. Why is that so?

 

[Pyrmon]

And I don't think this will ever escalate to the ground zero Masjid fiasco.

It was a fiasco? I though the Mosque was going to open this year?

By fiasco, I meant "really big and bad situation that involved a lot of people arguing".

And it is? That's nice to know.

It sucks to know that, in a country where we're supposed to be free, we can be oppressed by the goddamn media because someone wanted to make a religious center (semi)near a crash site. Sickening.

Ohhhhh. The fiasco.
Yeah, that situation sickened me too.

 

[HateBreed]

Christianity is for the weak and broken. People that have hit rock bottom and had nowhere else to turn. For others its a source of income because they abuse the weak minds of people. My beliefs are that we should keep stuff like that to ourselves and if anyone wants to hear religious mumbo jumbo then they will go out and look for it.

Agressive Atheism is for those truly alone, people who are so full of themselves that they fail to realize that they're not the navel of the world and attempt to force-feed others, since what THEY believe is the only right choice. For others, it's a source of infinite annoyance. My beliefs are that you should keep your beliefs to yourself, and anyone who wants to hear your non-religious mumbo jumbo will surely visit you in I-Don't-Care County.

Ontopic: At the end of the day, it's just a cross, errected by people who were working tirelessly on-site, attempting to find any survivours or at least recover bodies. It's not a symbol of religious faith, it's a symbol of faith in the human spirit. If people fail to see past the appereances then it's just... sad, really.

I'm actually very christian but christianity has been corrupt for ages

 

[cwstjdenobs]

We don't see muslims protesting againts it, we don't see jews protesting againts it, the only noisy dogs we hear barking are those for whom the cross means absolutely zilch. Why is that so?

Because you have nut jobs who want special treatment in every group? From other circles I talk to I can tell you there are plenty of Atheists, even high profile "aggressive atheists", saying this is way too much. Like I said if they'd have filed the suit to try and make sure everyone was given the chance to have something in there this would be an admirable endeavour. But no "me me me, I'm all that matters" has to come into everything.

 

[silverbullet1080]

This is actually a reasonable lawsuit. A cross has no place in a 9/11 memorial place.

 

[Terminator02]

I don't know why people think that the attack on the Twin Towers was an attack against Christianity. It was just done by some nutjob who just happened to be suicidal.

In this sense, I think the cross should still be there, but they should also make the symbols of all the religions in the museum.

And I don't think this will ever escalate to the ground zero Masjid fiasco. The media basically hates Islam, loves Christianity. If it involves Islam and it's bad? Full coverage. If it involves Christianity and it's bad? Nope. We don't want to insult the "country's religion".

Westboro Baptist Church.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

A) These are douchey atheists. I'm gonna sit back here and be apathetic an agnostic.

B) Technically there's no right for a Christian cross to be on the memorial as people from many religions probably died in the attack. There are probably other ways to memorialize people that aren't faith-based. Make a garden or something.

Now it's time to never visit this thread again as it'll be a communal shit pool for "intellectual" jerkoffs to state their points.

Later bros.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

This is actually a reasonable lawsuit. A cross has no place in a 9/11 memorial place.

I don't know. I really think trying to stop this being there is as bad as them trying to force God into Pat Tillman's funeral service.

EDIT:
"Now it's time to never visit this thread again as it'll be a communal shit pool for "intellectual" jerkoffs to state their points." Lol, ninja'd and summed up in one sentence.

 

[silverbullet1080]

This is actually a reasonable lawsuit. A cross has no place in a 9/11 memorial place.

I don't know. I really think trying to stop this being there is as bad as them trying to force God into Pat Tillman's funeral service.

EDIT:
"Now it's time to never visit this thread again as it'll be a communal shit pool for "intellectual" jerkoffs to state their points." Lol, ninja'd and summed up in one sentence.

Public museum =/= private funeral

 

[Nathan Drake]

I have to ask: why only a cross?

Muslims, Jews, Christians, Catholics, and Atheists alike were all victims of the attacks. I'm sure people from every one of those religious groups helped to rescue others too. You can't honor one group and say "well, in the public opinion, we think they did more work than everybody else." It's kind of giving the finger to everybody else. You either need to honor all groups that were there, suffered, and fought to rescue, or you do nothing.

It isn't just a matter of religion, it's a matter of respect.

 

[Ikki]

That's so damn immature.

 

[godreborn]

aw...another day, another event in which christians make themselves look bad. y is it that christians believe they have some special right to do as they please? I know I'm not the first to say this, but where was god when these attacks took place? I guess he was on a sabbatical, but isn't he always on one??? the world is full of despair and suffering without any glimmer of hope, yet the christian god, who's supposed to be loving and forgiving, rests his feet on an ottoman watching television all day while people kill and die in his name. maybe it's just me, but if that's the nature of 'good,' then I've yet to determine how it differs from evil.

 

[Pyrmon]

aw...another day, another event in which christians make themselves look bad. y is it that christians believe they have some special right to do as they please? I know I'm not the first to say this, but where was god when these attacks took place? I guess he was on a sabbatical, but isn't he always on one??? the world is full of despair and suffering without any glimmer of hope, yet the christian god, who's supposed to be loving and forgiving, rests his feet on an ottoman watching television all day while people kill and die in his name. maybe it's just me, but if that's the nature of 'good,' then I've yet to determine how it differs from evil.

It depends greatly on how one views God. One can either view him as active or passive. People who view God as active think he is actively controlling the world, choosing what happens, where, when and to whom. He is the one holding the Universe together and making sure the planet rotates and the sun shines. Controlling the weather, etc.
The passive view of God is that he created the Universe so it was self-sufficient and gave man freewill. Whatever man does with that freewill, he should be the one assuming the consequences. Then God just looks at his creation and doesn't need to actively manage it.

 

[Foxi4]

I have to ask: why only a cross?

Muslims, Jews, Christians, Catholics, and Atheists alike were all victims of the attacks. I'm sure people from every one of those religious groups helped to rescue others too. You can't honor one group and say "well, in the public opinion, we think they did more work than everybody else." It's kind of giving the finger to everybody else. You either need to honor all groups that were there, suffered, and fought to rescue, or you do nothing.

It isn't just a matter of religion, it's a matter of respect.

I'll tell you how it rolled down...

There were X people in the rescue team, shoveling debris left and right looking for survivors. After a sufficient ammout of time, the innitial "hope blast" was depleted, and they realized that there is nobody there who could survive this. They came to the conclusion that they're standing on a grave of 3000 now and it'd probably be a good idea to honour those deaths somehow, and they had just a welding kit and junk.

The cross was the simpliest of simple symbols those people could make, and that's the one they came up with. Nobody was thinking about religion for a split second.

 

[Judas18]

I can understand why atheists would be angry at this as after all, it was religion that caused the destruction of the towers.

 

[Magmorph]

I'll tell you how it rolled down...

There were X people in the rescue team, shoveling debris left and right looking for survivors. After a sufficient ammout of time, the innitial "hope blast" was depleted, and they realized that there is nobody there who could survive this. They came to the conclusion that they're standing on a grave of 3000 now and it'd probably be a good idea to honour those deaths somehow, and they had just a welding kit and junk.

The cross was the simpliest of simple symbols those people could make, and that's the one they came up with. Nobody was thinking about religion for a split second.

Bullshit

The cross was the remnants of intersecting girders. The only reason that particular part of the building was saved is because of the resemblance to a Christian cross.

I personally couldn't care less about the cross as long as they don't restrict other religions from getting their own memorial.

 

[Foxi4]

I can understand why atheists would be angry at this as after all, it was religion that caused the destruction of the towers.

No, it was the American Government that by proxy caused the destruction of the towers. Muslim extremists were bent to get pissed when U.S troops invaded their land, destroyed their economy, totalled half of their oil-extraction industry and poluted the land with depleted uranium shells. Repeadedly.

 

[megawalk]

nope. pure religion.
and if all those believers keep going on like that we will all die by our own selfrightious religion.
sad that most of them don't see what's coming.
i mean, suuuuure, religion is o.k.
but is is a bad excuse if you go in war with it
that just makes yourself a war monger or a fascistic idiot with crazy ideals
all i'm saying is religion has caused more victims then anything else
also a list of causality of war
1. Religion
2. Understanding

nothing more...nothing less

 

[Jamstruth]

This is a silly thing to get worked up about. Other religions can ask for a memorial to be placed to their people if they want.

Btw @HellBreed from your first post. The meaning of the cross changed when Jesus died upon it. It changed from a symbol of punishment into a symbol of redemption as he died for our sins. Your church is really strange if it rejects one of your religion's core symbols. Also I'm pretty sure the concept of hell existed pre-christianity. Doesn't Judaism have a hell concept? Same with Islam? I'm pretty sure both those religions pre-date Christianity. Judaism definitely does.

 

[Judas18]

I can understand why atheists would be angry at this as after all, it was religion that caused the destruction of the towers.

No, it was the American Government that by proxy caused the destruction of the towers. Muslim extremists were bent to get pissed when U.S troops invaded their land, destroyed their economy, totalled half of their oil-extraction industry and poluted the land with depleted uranium shells. Repeadedly.

Keyword is Muslim. That right there is a religion. They killed all those people in the name of their God. I'm not hating on Muslims or any other religion for that matter, I'm just pointing it out.