To American Atheists

[ThatDudeWithTheFood]

This is a silly thing to get worked up about. Other religions can ask for a memorial to be placed to their people if they want.

Btw @HellBreed from your first post. The meaning of the cross changed when Jesus died upon it. It changed from a symbol of punishment into a symbol of redemption as he died for our sins. Your church is really strange if it rejects one of your religion's core symbols. Also I'm pretty sure the concept of hell existed pre-christianity. Doesn't Judaism have a hell concept? Same with Islam? I'm pretty sure both those religions pre-date Christianity. Judaism definitely does.

Wtf do you mean Islam came before Christianity did you listen in school.

Muslims believe in Jesus just like Christians only they don't believe hes God's son.

Muslims also believe in Muhammad who came after Jesus so Christianity pre-dates Islam.

 

[Jamstruth]

This is a silly thing to get worked up about. Other religions can ask for a memorial to be placed to their people if they want.

Btw @HellBreed from your first post. The meaning of the cross changed when Jesus died upon it. It changed from a symbol of punishment into a symbol of redemption as he died for our sins. Your church is really strange if it rejects one of your religion's core symbols. Also I'm pretty sure the concept of hell existed pre-christianity. Doesn't Judaism have a hell concept? Same with Islam? I'm pretty sure both those religions pre-date Christianity. Judaism definitely does.

Wtf do you mean Islam came before Christianity did you listen in school.

Muslims believe in Jesus just like Christians only they don't believe hes God's son.

Muslims also believe in Muhammad who came after Jesus so Christianity pre-dates Islam.

No need to overreact. I said I only said I think. My RE covered the beliefs not the actual timescales of the religions. Its off topic anyway.

 

[ThatDudeWithTheFood]

This is a silly thing to get worked up about. Other religions can ask for a memorial to be placed to their people if they want.

Btw @HellBreed from your first post. The meaning of the cross changed when Jesus died upon it. It changed from a symbol of punishment into a symbol of redemption as he died for our sins. Your church is really strange if it rejects one of your religion's core symbols. Also I'm pretty sure the concept of hell existed pre-christianity. Doesn't Judaism have a hell concept? Same with Islam? I'm pretty sure both those religions pre-date Christianity. Judaism definitely does.

Wtf do you mean Islam came before Christianity did you listen in school.

Muslims believe in Jesus just like Christians only they don't believe hes God's son.

Muslims also believe in Muhammad who came after Jesus so Christianity pre-dates Islam.

No need to overreact. I said I only said I think. My RE covered the beliefs not the actual timescales of the religions. Its off topic anyway.

I see I see but my view is if we honor a whole bunch of religions won't the memorial turn into a memorial of religion and not a memorial of 9/11.

 

[Jamstruth]

I agree. Its dumb to have more than one monument. If people want this extra stuff they can ask for it. Personally I don't care about religious symbols on memorials. Since that girder has a connection it makes sense to have it placed there, its not just a symbol for the sake of it. Its a silly thing to get worked up about.

 

[Slyakin]

In regard to the whole situation, I'm only gonna say one thing:

I don't care. I'm Muslim. I know that Muslims died in this attack. I don't really want a Star and Moon symbol in the museum. A cross is fine for me. It at least shows that some religious group cares.

See ya. Abandoning thread now.

 

[ThatDudeWithTheFood]

I agree. Its dumb to have more than one monument. If people want this extra stuff they can ask for it. Personally I don't care about religious symbols on memorials. Since that girder has a connection it makes sense to have it placed there, its not just a symbol for the sake of it. Its a silly thing to get worked up about.

They should just keep the cross and explain the significance of it and leave it at that.

 

[silverbullet1080]

I have to ask: why only a cross?

Muslims, Jews, Christians, Catholics, and Atheists alike were all victims of the attacks. I'm sure people from every one of those religious groups helped to rescue others too. You can't honor one group and say "well, in the public opinion, we think they did more work than everybody else." It's kind of giving the finger to everybody else. You either need to honor all groups that were there, suffered, and fought to rescue, or you do nothing.

It isn't just a matter of religion, it's a matter of respect.

I'll tell you how it rolled down...

There were X people in the rescue team, shoveling debris left and right looking for survivors. After a sufficient ammout of time, the innitial "hope blast" was depleted, and they realized that there is nobody there who could survive this. They came to the conclusion that they're standing on a grave of 3000 now and it'd probably be a good idea to honour those deaths somehow, and they had just a welding kit and junk.

The cross was the simpliest of simple symbols those people could make, and that's the one they came up with. Nobody was thinking about religion for a split second.

A building's skeleton is built with intersecting metal beams. It would've been taken an act of god for there not to have been any cross shaped debris.

 

[Yoshimashin]

Eh, let people do what they want.

You grow old, you die and you end up in a hole in the ground.


It is rather funny how people get upset over little things, though.

 

[cwstjdenobs]

Doesn't Judaism have a hell concept? Same with Islam?

Nope, Jesus meek and mild and all about the love came up with that one. Islam does but Islam came a little over 600 years after Christianity.

 

[GreatCrippler]

As an Agnostic American married to an Atheist American, I care not... Umm, what was the question?

 

[gloweyjoey]

The way I see it, If Christians want a big giant cross somewhere in public, that's fine, but then they have no right to complain or protest when say a Satanist group wants to remember their own by erecting a giant pentagram.

 

[Foxi4]

A building's skeleton is built with intersecting metal beams. It would've been taken an act of god for there not to have been any cross shaped debris.

Numerous architects and experts already stated their opinion on this cross - it's constructed of two girders which were not innitially connected in this shape and became "one" due to intense heat - they're connected with molten metal on one side.

 

[Yoshimashin]

A building's skeleton is built with intersecting metal beams. It would've been taken an act of god for there not to have been any cross shaped debris.

Numerous architects and experts already stated their opinion on this cross - it's constructed of two girders which were not innitially connected in this shape and became "one" due to intense heat - they're connected with molten metal on one side.

Using SCIENCE to help Christians?! What is this?!

 

[Magmorph]

A building's skeleton is built with intersecting metal beams. It would've been taken an act of god for there not to have been any cross shaped debris.

Numerous architects and experts already stated their opinion on this cross - it's constructed of two girders which were not innitially connected in this shape and became "one" due to intense heat - they're connected with molten metal on one side.

I would like to hear which architects and experts are saying this.

 

[Domination]

They aren't just objecting because it was a cross though, they are also rejecting it because it was taken by the Christians and "blessed" by their clergymen. They believe it's an infringement of their constitutional rights, which makes this issue as political as it is religious. They are especially angry at the lack of separation of the church and state, the depressing lack of secularism.

Still, I cannot agree with their plan of monopoly over the WTC site. Marginalising others for our own self-comfort is just not the atheist way, its what we have been criticising for decades.

The cross, while may have been religiously tainted, still carries heavy symbolism, I bet they do not have anything that carries as much symbolism as this. Unless they manage to produce something even better from the WTC. But then still, this shouldn't be removed, but rather should be displayed alongside other monuments(the Jews are getting their's too, which leads to another one of their points, the fact that there were more atheists that died than Jews, so why do the Jews get their monument first?).

But now that the case is filed, it carries more symbolism than ever. It could set a judicial precedent in America, as I'm guessing there aren't too many materially similar cases, so the impact of this is even larger.