Hacking To all usb loader developers

[IceIceBird]

davebaol: maybe an easy function for saving savegames to SD/USB instead of the limited real nand could be added in the future, so the usb loaders could implement it easier. Sure it already can be done by using the nand emulation, but as said most of the usb loaders don't want to look in to it. So if there was an easy function for this in the cIOS maybe they will add it then

The only one I know of is uLoader that suport it at the moment.

Hmmm, at first glance it seems not very hard to implement since it's a small subset of emunand, but I could be wrong.
However I'm not sure that usb loader developers are interested in integrating this feature.
And I wouldn't spend my spare time to implement features whose nobody cares about.
Maybe a poll could tell us more about that. I'll let upon you.

This is a cIOS question, not an sneek/uneek (that don't use cIOS)

After you vote please also write a post explaining why you voted as you did and your biggest reason?

 

[pplucky]

I think that this possibility would be awesome to have, as it would to keep Wii real NAND free for other stuff.

 

[Cyan]

That would store save data on SD/USB in a specific folder without using a NAND dump?

Hermes cIOS already include the FFS module to redirect saves using uLoader.
I don't know if it need a complete NAND dump, or if it's saved to any user defined folder.

I think having the redirecting code to any folder would be enough, then it's up to the USBloader developers to choose either the storing path in a NAND dump folder automatically (nand, nand2, nand3, nand4, like on uLoader) or allow the user choose any other folder, like SD:/usb_loader_saves/.


Edit :
I won't use it, as I have enough free space on my real NAND.
Though, even if users have enough free space on NAND, it can be a good option when going to a friend's or family's house, and have it's own saves to continue playing, without the need to extract/backup/replace the saves using savegameManagerGX.
I'm not traveling a lot, so I don't need it, but I think it can be a nice feature.

edit2 :
Ah, yes you are right Wever, it would need the NAND dump for these games.

USB Loader GX's nand emu for saves was a feature we already talked about, and decided to add it later.
Though, the development seems a little staled for the moment

There's no big bugs or requests.

 

[Taleweaver]

I voted "A don't gonna use that function [I'm a user]".

The main reason is that I disagree with the following:

"Sure it already can be done by using the nand emulation, but as said most of the usb loaders don't want to look in to it."

uloader (or more precise: Hermes's cIOS) has it for quite a while now. And joyflow might be a simple uneek-mod of wiiflow, it works fine nonetheless. There's also joyGX, which is GX under uneek. You could even say that uneek+DI is actually an USB loader (it loads games from USB, right?).


I wouldn't say that nand emulation totally trumps working with cIOS right now, but for playing games it is at least a draw. And if you're going to save game stuff elsewhere, you can just as well go all the way (remember: to play "your wii" on someone else's machine, you need things like system settings, miis and DLC as well).



Finally: I don't mean to play the devil's advocate, but...if developers wanted to use this function, wouldn't they have used the feature from Hermes's cIOS by now?

 

[IceIceBird]

Finally: I don't mean to play the devil's advocate, but...if developers wanted to use this function, wouldn't they have used the feature from Hermes's cIOS by now?

As you say yourself the function exist in hermes cIOS and his loader uLoader. (And can be done with the current nand emulation also. But wouln't it be easier to have just one easy function in the cIOS to make use of it, that way you could use differnt loaders also, because they all handle the saving the same if integrated). And of course saving some time and bug hunting for the usb loader developers.

QUOTE(Wever @ Apr 26 2011, 12:10 PM) uloader (or more precise: Hermes's cIOS) has it for quite a while now. And joyflow might be a simple uneek-mod of wiiflow, it works fine nonetheless. There's also joyGX, which is GX under uneek. You could even say that uneek+DI is actually an USB loader (it loads games from USB, right?).

I myself don't use sneek/uneek, I think it's slow. And for what I understand you don't need an cIOS installed to use those either so I don't understand why you brought that subject up? as it has nothing to do with a cIOS.
uLoader isn't up to date (sure there is an unoffical update, and please don't say you like the GUI). uLoader is a great loader but in my opinion looks very awfull

Would be nice to hear some developers thoughts about this thinking (letting the cIOS do more).
They maybe have some suggestion of there own about other things also

 

[xfcrowman]

I would definitely use nand emulation of game saves if wiiflow/cfg/GX had this feature.

I know that you can do nand emulation of saves with uloader or UNEEK. However, I use uloader as little as possible (mainly due to the ugly GUI), and switching to UNEEK takes time. If wiiflow/gx/cfg had this feature, I could use it immediately, instead of waiting a long time as I switch to UNEEK.

I know that miigotu and r-win (wiiflow devs) once stated that they wanted to implement nand emulation of saves, but they are not working on wiiflow as regularly as they once did.

 

[tueidj]

Riivolution already does this, and can even store files over a network/internet connection so you can access them from anywhere (i.e. cloud based savefile repository).

 

[8BitWalugi]

"A don't gonna use that function [I'm a user]"

Honestly, that's the worst broken English ive read.

On topic, I couldn't really care. I can see how some people would like it, but "A don't gonna use [it]"

 

[Skater4599]

I personally really really would LOVE this feature, Yes PLEASE add this feature in!

 

[Blue-K]

I was under the impression that Wanin already implemented this? At least I remember reading about a special mode in the NAND-Emu, only for saves. I also remember that he showcased this mode on uStream (but with no actual proof that the save was stored on the HD/SD). Was it all a lie?

Also: I think Oggzee (CFG-Loader Dev) stated several times that he won't add this feature, since in his opinion, no normal and legit user needs that much space (and that only pirates need so much space). Maybe he changed his opinion since then, I dunno, but I support this opinion. If you really need this feature, use UNEEK/SNEEK+DI and JoyGX/JoyFlow. Way better than cIOS anyways.

 

[IceIceBird]

I was under the impression that Wanin already implemented this? At least I remember reading about a special mode in the NAND-Emu, only for saves. I also remember that he showcased this mode on uStream (but with no actual proof that the save was stored on the HD/SD). Was it all a lie?

Also: I think Oggzee (CFG-Loader Dev) stated several times that he won't add this feature, since in his opinion, no normal and legit user needs that much space (and that only pirates need so much space). Maybe he changed his opinion since then, I dunno, but I support this opinion. If you really need this feature, use UNEEK/SNEEK+DI and JoyGX/JoyFlow. Way better than cIOS anyways.
Yes thats correct he have stated that. But I think he have to rethink that because it's not only saves that take up memory on the NAND it's also WiiWare and other games from wiishop, Updates for games, DLC etc etc..the memory isn't that big. His opinion that only "pirates" would use that option is in MY opinion way wrong. Maybe he or the other developers should rethink it twise. And if he still thinks it's only pirates who will have use of this, then I respect his opinion. And I have to say he does a explended work on cfg, no doubt about that

QUOTE(tueidj @ Apr 26 2011, 03:15 PM) Riivolution already does this, and can even store files over a network/internet connection so you can access them from anywhere (i.e. cloud based savefile repository).

Riivolution does not suport pirates and they have this option.

 

[Cyan]

To install more Wiiware and VC and still have enough place for your saves, you can (should?) use Nand emu with sneek, or use Triiforce/mighty channel instead of real nand.
Sneek is not that slower (just create a clean nand, and it will be fast).

Wever talked about Sneek because it's a Nand emulator, and what you ask is also using the Nand emulation.
Being or not related to cIOS, it still a solution to have enough storing place.

 

[Etheboss]

As Skater4599 already stated in the cIOSX rev21d2x topic:

Save everything on USB sounds great...i said yes, but...not if it breaks something else...or makes the cIOS slower.

 

[IceIceBird]

To install more Wiiware and VC and still have enough place for your saves, you can (should?) use Nand emu with sneek, or use Triiforce/mighty channel instead of real nand.
Sneek is not that slower (just create a clean nand, and it will be fast).

Wever talked about Sneek because it's a Nand emulator, and what you ask is also using the Nand emulation.
Being or not related to cIOS, it still a solution to have enough storing place.
What I meant was that many of the arguments as to why we should not have that option in the USB Loaders are for the benefit of the pirates, and this is not something they want to encourage. What I was trying to say is that the pirates will not consume the entire NAND memory faster then non-piorates, given that little memory is available and how much they WiiWare games (on real NAND) take up, pirates probably uses Might Channel/TriiForce/Sneek/Uneek for this instead when the non-pirates don't. The other thing I wanted to mention is that the cIOS issue does not concern Sneek / Uneek when they do not use the newer cIOS's. Of course you can make use of Sneek / Uneek and also the original system menu with accompanying cIOS:s. Of course you can use Might Channel to play the WiiWare etc etc. But it was not what the main question was all about! It was about being able to emulate that games save their savegames on SD / USB instead of the real NAND with the current USB Loaders (not using sneek/uneek). The only reason I mentioned WiiWare games etc etc take up space on the NAND was to say that I did not think that the argument "that benefits only pirates and legitimate users will never need this feature" is not correct according to me.

QUOTE(Etheboss @ Apr 26 2011, 06:31 PM) As Skater4599 already stated in the cIOSX rev21d2x topic:
Save everything on USB sounds great...i said yes, but...not if it breaks something else...or makes the cIOS slower.

If it gets done it will be an option and the default will be as it is right now.

 

[tueidj]

Saving on anything besides the NAND (which is basically a SSD) is going to be slower.

 

[IceIceBird]

Saving on anything besides the NAND (which is basically a SSD) is going to be slower.

Yes, but how often does a game make a save then? Not very often .. atleast not the most of the games. And if you have a game that does this. Just make that invidual game save to the real nand insted then.

 

[Taleweaver]

uloader (or more precise: Hermes's cIOS) has it for quite a while now. And joyflow might be a simple uneek-mod of wiiflow, it works fine nonetheless. There's also joyGX, which is GX under uneek. You could even say that uneek+DI is actually an USB loader (it loads games from USB, right?).

I myself don't use sneek/uneek, I think it's slow. And for what I understand you don't need an cIOS installed to use those either so I don't understand why you brought that subject up? as it has nothing to do with a cIOS.
uLoader isn't up to date (sure there is an unoffical update, and please don't say you like the GUI). uLoader is a great loader but in my opinion looks very awfull

Cyan already mentioned my reason: because what is requested can already be done. It indeed doesn't require a cIOS, but IMO, a cIOS is a means to an end (in this case: play games and get all the savegame stuff on something not the nand). Just using cIOS for sake of using a cIOS isn't my idea of a fair comparison.


But sneek/uneek is slower upon starting, I'll give you that. Maybe for starting games and saving as well, but then it's only fractions of seconds.

Just did a quick comparison:
Real nand: priiloader into wiiflow: 25,54 seconds to boot
Uneek+di nand: priiloader into joyflow: 38,17 seconds to boot


I can't comment on the saving/loading time differences of real vs emulated. But comparing uneek savegame moments and real nand savegame moments...I doubt it's going to be much longer (but maybe I'm just playing games that only need to read/write a few simple things).

 

[WiiUBricker]

I dont know the saving/loading time differences of real vs. emulated saves, but all I can tell is that UNEEK or actually sorgeligs nand emulator has a bit faster loading times. Though I'm not using this anymore since the coder has abandoned his work without providing source.

On topic: I personally dont need saves in USB devices. I actually dislike the fact, that saves are being stored in an emulated nand when using SNEEK/UNEEK. Saves are not that big.

 

[IceIceBird]

I dont know the saving/loading time differences of real vs. emulated saves, but all I can tell is that UNEEK or actually sorgeligs nand emulator has a bit faster loading times. Though I'm not using this anymore since the coder has abandoned his work without providing source.

On topic: I personally dont need saves in USB devices. I actually dislike the fact, that saves are being stored in an emulated nand when using SNEEK/UNEEK. Saves are not that big.

You don't need a nand dump to save, you choose yourself what destination/folder it should be saved to..

 

[obcd]

You have the savegame_manager_gx application to extract and restore gamesaves from real nand to SD/USB....
You also have the hermes cios which have the feature...
Basically, using those cios, other usbloaders than uloader could already contain code to do it as well, if their was interest for it...

I just see myself repeating what others already told... I assume people knowing what they are doing could use the savegame_manager
if they wanted to backup or transfer a gamesave. Those who don't know how to do that, probably won't benefit much by having their
saves on usb or sd.