Tips To Basic Deck Building

Discussion in 'NDS - Console and Game Discussions' started by minkyu716, Mar 7, 2010.

Mar 7, 2010

Tips To Basic Deck Building by minkyu716 at 2:21 PM (2,504 Views / 0 Likes) 20 replies

  1. minkyu716
    OP

    Newcomer minkyu716 Member

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    Q; Why learn?
    A: IMO, Yu-Gi-Oh is 20% card collecting 30% deck building, 50% winning and the rest for little things like tourneys that happen rarely and perhaps story. If you miss out on deck building, you are potentially missing out on half or more of the game. (cause you will lose as well.) Netdecking, or stealing posted decks is a bad idea because not only is it not fun, you generally never get better at the game. That is why.

    Tip 0: Know the rules.
    If you are new please be aware of these small details. (I mean really new.)
    Destroying card does not negate activation. If said opponent uses fissure, using Mystical Space typhoon will NOT save your monster. (also remember that from now on mystical space typhoon will be abbreviated to MST.)
    Destroying=/= sending. Dark end dragon sends monsters to the graveyard; hence it is not destroying and cannot be negated by Stardust dragon and any other destruction jamming cards.
    When a card states that it can be special summoned after ~~conditions are met, it means from the hand unless stated otherwise. Ex) Dark armed dragon (will be abbreviated to DAD) cannot be special summoned from the graveyard by call of the haunted even if there are 3 dark monsters in said grave.

    Tip 1: Use 40 f***ing cards dammit.
    I often see noobs on wifi who use 60 card decks; the more the merrier right? Wrong. Most decks (good decks) will initialize 3 to 4 main plays and therefore, to increase the chances, it uses card combos that overlap needed cards and keeps card count to a minimum. Can’t fit it in? how about using less copies? Edit: I admit that its okay to have 40 to 42 cards, but usually the extra few can be mended with less fodder. It has been mentioned to fill extra deck, but you may not fill it or partially fill itas a form of mind game.

    Tip 2: Know card advantage. This link might help. Skim through it.
    Card advantage is generally counting how many cards you can make the opponent lose and how many you can gain. Above helping you choose a better choice of cards going into said deck, it can help you make better decsisions. For instance, lightning vortex should be used when your opponent has 2 or more face up monsters since using it when you opponent has 1 nets you a -1. Now this is a crude example, since there are times when your opponent's monster has to be destroyed no matter the cost. This is when its 90% evident that the opposing monster is vital to the player's winning strat.

    Tip 3: Build decks centralized on archetypes. An archetype is a set of cards usually with simillar names. ex)Jain Lightsworn Paladin & Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter
    These cards usually have supporting cards and that is why you should try to put in only one or two to maximize each archetype's potential.
    Some special cards that go side by side in any deck are:

    Monsters:
    Gorz, The emissary of darkness
    Morphing Jar(fodder mostly)
    Dandylion (If you need to tribute summon)
    The gravekeeper's spy (add 2 cards not three if you are going to tribute summon)

    Tuners:
    Plaguespreader zombie
    Blackwing- Gale

    Trap:
    Solemn Judgement
    Torrential Tribute
    Mirror Force
    Bottomless Trap Hole
    Dark Bribe (some say nay, but its not that bad)
    Starlight road (Have stardust equal or 1 more than the number of roads)
    Call of the Haunted

    Magic:
    Heavy Storm
    Giant Trunade(not that good if you already have storm)
    Book of Moon (can be used to stop a variety of effects, such as an attack, designated destruction and others! An all around card! But generates a -1 so not used that widely.)
    Mystical Space Typhoon
    lightning vortex (careful with this one, may)
    Cold wave

    Synchros:
    Stardust Dragon
    Goyo Gaurdian
    Brionac Dragon of the ice barrier

    Tip 4: Use a draw engine.
    A draw engine is essential to all good decks because they provide speed to your decks. Yes press B from your trunk go to the far right and search for increase draw. Find a draw engine that supports your archetype.
    If you can't find one, then fill your deck up with any card that blocks opponent attacks and negates effects because today's decks are fast and they will mill you down.


    Tip 5: Try different types of deck.
    Just because the deck isn't toptier and 99% of players aren't using it doesn't mean that it's bad. When you play different types of decks, you start to recognise different cards. I have beated many lightsworn and blackwing decks using frog beatdown deck. Most likely because it seemed like my opponents had never seen the cards I had used before. If you play different types of deck, then when you go against one of them, you can think that 'Oh yeah, I had a deck like that once. I'm pretty sure that he has XXX in his deck or in his hand so I should play YYY to...'

    If you are new to deck building, Please try making these types of decks to begin with.

    Level 1: Basic Beatdown. Just a deck with high attack monsters with some monarchs on top with maybe a few tuners or so. Won't scare anyone, but good for beginners.
    Level 2: Themed Beatdown. Try non 30-card-filler Crystal beasts or maybe some glads
    Warning: Spoilers inside!
    Level 3: Some OTKs, Control Oriented decks. Harder to plan and to use. Know to conserve. (maybe)

    Then go try building a deck of choice.

    Feel free to add to topic. Comments and questions are accepted. Fixes made in response to mipe's post. Fixes made again, but not complete cause I have to go. And try not to flame(not saying anyone did) pulling out teh guns may further turn people away.
     


  2. mipe

    Newcomer mipe Advanced Member

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    Actually, because the new banlist, some of the decks (Well, lightsworns come to my mind) are slower.

    Tip 5: Try different types of deck.
    Just because the deck isn't toptier and 99% of players aren't using it doesn't mean that it's bad. When you play different types of decks, you start to recognise different cards. I have beated many lightsworn and blackwing decks using frog beatdown deck. Most likely because it seemed like my opponents had never seen the cards I had used before. If you play different types of deck, then when you go against one of them, you can think that 'Oh yeah, I had a deck like that once. I'm pretty sure that he has XXX in his deck or in his hand so I should play YYY to...'
     
  3. Getting_Better

    Newcomer Getting_Better Advanced Member

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    Children's card games are so complicated [​IMG]
     
  4. elixirdream

    Member elixirdream GBAtemp Legend

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    its not only complicated.. it is very complicated [​IMG]
    till today i have no idea how to build a yugioh deck
    i guess my problem is i didn't give an effort to study the cards

    i still prefer magic the gathering [​IMG]
     
  5. Exbaddude

    Member Exbaddude The Prince.

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    I thought Yu-Gi-Oh was easy, until this post =O=
     
  6. mipe

    Newcomer mipe Advanced Member

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    Well, in MtG and YGO, the deck building basics are still the same.

    Less cards is better, I think that most of 'good' decks in MtG are close to the minimum cards allowed (but it's not as strick as YGO)

    Card advantage, that is pretty much in EVERY card game.

    Staples, well, MtG surely has some staples that go into every deck if the deck has X colour.

    IMHO, Magic is more complicated, if it's only for the resource system.
     
  7. mrfatso

    Member mrfatso That guy!!

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    but to be honest, i kinda prefer yugioh to duel monsters, since for reasons unknown to me, i couldnt really get how to make a decent deck in duel monsters, lack of decent magic card and me not being rich to buy a pack a week might have contributed...

    So, just a quick question, what are the new rules in 5D as opposed to the old old 1st gen yugioh(yes i know i am really outdated)?
     
  8. mipe

    Newcomer mipe Advanced Member

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    There is no 'fusion deck' anymore. It's now 'Extra deck' and you can put Fusion, Synchro and Accel Synchro monsters into it (Notice: Accel Synchro monsters aren't released yet). You can only have 15 cards in extra deck (20 after Accel synchro comes out). When Accel Synchro's come out, maximum deck size raises from 60 to 80.

    But anyways, what is new NOW, well:
    Synchro monsters. They are basically fusion expect without using polymerization and not needing specific monsters. When you have a tuner monster + 1 or more non-tuner monsters, when you add all their levels together, you can synchro summon one synchro monster with EXACTLY the same level. Some synchros might require some specific tuners/non-tuners like "Plaguespreader Zombie + 1 or more zombie non-tuner"
    Example: You want to summon Stardust Dragon, which is level 8 synchro monster. You could summon it by example, by tuning Black Salvo (level 3 tuner) and Cyber Dragon (level 5).

    Accel Synchro, well, basically, it's the same as synchro monster, but instead of using tuner and non-tuner, you use Synchro Tuner and synchro non-tuner.
     
  9. mrfatso

    Member mrfatso That guy!!

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    I see, so other than that, nothing much has been changed, dark hole/exodia is still ban and the rules are still the same, right?
     
  10. minkyu716
    OP

    Newcomer minkyu716 Member

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    Exodia the forbiden one (the head) is unlimited while the legs and the arms are limited.
    Dark hole has been... for a while now yeah.I don't get what you mean by nothing much...

    In terms of rules nothing has changed but, the entire game has evolved into something amazingly deeper than summon monster--> attack--->activate trap... NUUUUUU!!! and some card plays take 5 minutes in total.
     
  11. mrfatso

    Member mrfatso That guy!!

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    i see, and wow, 5 mins, the fastest i could win/lose a match with my brother was in 1/2 hour lol.
     
  12. FlashX007

    Newcomer FlashX007 GBAtemp Maniac

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    nice but for n00bs itll just push them away because theres more to it and they might just netdeck which is fail
     
  13. kingkonghong

    Newcomer kingkonghong Advanced Member

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    Only reliable draw engine left is the morphing jar one. And I invented it.
     
  14. FlashX007

    Newcomer FlashX007 GBAtemp Maniac

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    i might go back to posting decks here for 2010 but idk yet i get flamed out of no where for no reason alot
     
  15. injected11

    Member injected11 Crescent Fresh™

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    Nobody cared, and then you continually whined about people not paying attention to you. People didn't flame you, they got sick of you triple and quad posting, saying nothing more than "Why aren't people commenting?!", then you posted that you wanted the thread shut, in giant red letters. Now you're trying to derail someone else's thread and gain attention at the same time.

    Stop.
     
  16. Candid

    Newcomer Candid Newbie

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    <!--quoteo(post=2642107:date=Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM:name=minkyu716)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(minkyu716 @ Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2642107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Netdecking, or stealing posted decks is a bad idea because not only is it not fun, you generally never get better at the game. That is why.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Completely false. The way you get better is that you learn to play GOOD decks and learn what it takes to win. There are millions of ways to lose at this game bt not many to win. Stop trying to make aliens a competitive deck and pick up a straight netdeck. Trust me, the pros would agree here.

    <!--quoteo(post=2642107:date=Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM:name=minkyu716)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(minkyu716 @ Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2642107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tip 1: Use 40 f***ing cards dammit.
    I often see noobs on wifi who use 60 card decks; the more the merrier right? Wrong. Most decks (good decks) will initialize 3 to 4 main plays and therefore, to increase the chances, it uses card combos that overlap needed cards and keeps card count to a minimum. Can’t fit it in? how about using less copies? Edit: I admit that its okay to have 40 to 42 cards, but usually the extra few can be mended with less fodder. It has been mentioned to fill extra deck, but you may not fill it or partially fill itas a form of mind game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Running 40 cards isn't necessarily to "increase the chances" of getting your combos per se. If you have a deck that isn't overly reliant on one combo and is balanced via statistics, it's alright to have more cards. The thing about running close to 40 cards is two-fold:

    (1) You want to draw into your "one-outer" power cards. These are your staples that you want to see early and often. Heavy Storm, Brain Control, Torrential Tribute, etc. are all examples of one-ofs in the deck that you want to have in the hand.

    (2) Side deck. This is probably the primary reason why you want to run a smaller deck. When you side for a deck, you want to draw into the cards you sided in. The odds increase when you have a smaller deck.

    <!--quoteo(post=2642107:date=Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM:name=minkyu716)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(minkyu716 @ Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2642107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tip 3: Build decks centralized on archetypes. An archetype is a set of cards usually with simillar names. ex)Jain Lightsworn Paladin & Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter
    These cards usually have supporting cards and that is why you should try to put in only one or two to maximize each archetype's potential.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sometimes, but not always.

    Some of the top decks weren't part an archetype. TeleDAD, ReturnDAD, Card Trooper, Goat control, et cetera were all examples of dominant decks (at the time) that did only vaguely resembled archetypes. The bottom line is that your cards have to have synergy with each other. Often that comes from running certain archetypes. Sometimes it doesn't.



    <hr><b><!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Posts merged<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>

    <!--quoteo(post=2642107:date=Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM:name=minkyu716)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(minkyu716 @ Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2642107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some special cards that go side by side in any deck are:

    Monsters:
    Gorz, The emissary of darkness
    Morphing Jar(fodder mostly)
    Neo Spacian grand mole
    Dandylion (If you need to tribute summon)
    The gravekeeper's spy (add 2 cards not three if you are going to tribute summon)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No offense, but this list is pretty bad. Of this list, only Gorz is considered a staple, and certain decks will cut him if they are strong enough on defense and/or badly need space.

    Grand Mole, Morphing Jar, Dandylion, and Spy all are run, but only in specific decks that suit their needs.

    <!--quoteo(post=2642107:date=Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM:name=minkyu716)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(minkyu716 @ Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2642107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Trap:
    Solemn Judgement
    Torrential Tribute
    Mirror Force
    Bottomless Trap Hole (More of a filler though. Less used than other cards though)
    Dark Bribe (same as above)
    Starlight road (MUST have 3 stardust dragons in extra deck to work but works well. very well.)
    Call of the Haunted<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Uhm... Bottomless Trap Hole is not a "filler." That card is basically a staple. I see Bottomless in more decks than Mirror Force nowadays. Mirror Force too often gets destroyed/removed before they attack. Only an idiot would swing with multiple monsters into facedowns unless they see Mirror Force is in the graveyard. Bottomless removes threats before they materialize. It's a great card.

    Dark Bribe is a terrible card. The only time I would even consider running it is if I had vital backrow that I <i>absolutely needed</i> to protect. For example, Dimensional Eatos runs Dark Bribe because they absolutely need to have Dimensional Fissure or Macro Cosmos up or else their wholes strategy goes to hell. Otherwise, Dark Bribe just bleeds card advantage and nets free cards for your opponent. Free cards against a good opponent = you lose.

    Starlight Road doesn't run require 3 stardust dragons. 2 runs just fine because you aren't going to get off Starlight Road too often unless your opponent is a bad player/recklessly walks into setups where Starlight Road is a problem. I can't count the number of times that Starlight Road is a dead card because the opponent doesn't have or doesn't play mass removal, or plays mass removal when he has protection (e.g. My Body as a Shield for Gyzarus or Judgment Dragon).

    Starlight Road is like Dark Bribe or Solidarity. It's bad player bait. Unlike the other two cards, though, it's actually a very good card that has it's uses, but lesser players overvalue the card ridiculously. It doesn't deserve run in every deck, and not even necessarily a majority.

    <!--quoteo(post=2642107:date=Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM:name=minkyu716)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(minkyu716 @ Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2642107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Magic:
    Heavy Storm
    Giant Trunade
    Book of Moon (can be used to stop a variety of effects, such as an attack, designated destruction and others! An all around card! But generates a -1 so not used that widely.)
    Mystical Space Typhoon
    lightning vortex (careful with this one)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Lightning Vortex is far from a staple. Most competitive decks don't run it unless they really want to discard (e.g. zombies). In almost all situations, Smashing Ground is the better choice.

    Trunade isn't really a staple either. The only decks that run it are rapid synchro decks like Synchro Cat who need to have clear backrows so they don't routinely suffer -2s.

    <!--quoteo(post=2642107:date=Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM:name=minkyu716)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(minkyu716 @ Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2642107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tip 5: Try different types of deck.
    Just because the deck isn't toptier and 99% of players aren't using it doesn't mean that it's bad. When you play different types of decks, you start to recognise different cards. I have beated many lightsworn and blackwing decks using frog beatdown deck. Most likely because it seemed like my opponents had never seen the cards I had used before. If you play different types of deck, then when you go against one of them, you can think that 'Oh yeah, I had a deck like that once. I'm pretty sure that he has XXX in his deck or in his hand so I should play YYY to...'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, and how many of those lightsworn and blackwing players were good? There's a ton of lousy lightsworn and blackwing players out there. They're noob decks because they literally require very basic levels of thoughts. Your most complex lines of thought consist of "should I drop Honest here?" or "should I play Icarus now?"

    And generally speaking, if it doesn't see competitive play, it means it isn't good enough to routinely beat the top decks. I've beaten LS before with E-Heroes (before Absolute Zero) and Spiders. Doesn't mean I'm going to play either of those decks at an SJC because I know there's no chance I'll stand up to 10 rounds of swiss. I would be lucky to so much as win a match, and that's if I outplay circles around my opponents.

    <!--quoteo(post=2642107:date=Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM:name=minkyu716)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(minkyu716 @ Mar 7 2010, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2642107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you are new to deck building, Please try making these types of decks to begin with.

    Level 1: Basic Beatdown. Just a deck with high attack monsters with some monarchs on top with maybe a few tuners or so. Won't scare anyone, but good for beginners.
    Level 2: Themed Beatdown. Try non 30-card-filler Crystal beasts or maybe some six samurai.
    Warning: Spoilers inside!
    Level 3: Destiny Hero decks, Control Oriented decks. Harder to plan and to use. (maybe)

    Then go try building a deck of choice.

    Feel free to add to topic. Comments and questions are accepted. Fixes made in response to mipe's post.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    D-Hero decks aren't really "level 3." There's a world of difference between the thought processes behind a D-Hero deck and say... a Gladiator Beast deck. Glads are on a different level in terms of the level of planning and toolboxing that you have to make in order to properly run the deck.

    I also can't believe you would suggest people run Six Samurai. Talk about a sacky, skill-less deck that relies on godhanding people into oblivion. You might as well tell them to run Lightsworns, since Six Samurai basically is on that level of autopilot/sackiness.
     
  17. MissingNo._

    Member MissingNo._ aka MissingNoL

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    I looked at the title and thoguht, "Oh boy! A Jump! Ultimate Stars deck building guide! [​IMG]".
    But it wasn't one. Decieving...
    Anyways, good post.
     
  18. FlashX007

    Newcomer FlashX007 GBAtemp Maniac

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    thts cuz some1 did flame but it was removed................*ugh nvmz i didnt mean anything bad yet again
     
  19. outgum

    Member outgum Pokemanz Master

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    Sigh* Oh yu-gi-oh , how i stopped playing you so many years ago.
    I got into that card game MAGI-NATION on gameboy colour, that was sick XD
     
  20. mrfatso

    Member mrfatso That guy!!

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    yup, magi-nation rocks and depending on what i did, i was able to get multiple ending as well [​IMG] Hydras ftw [​IMG]
     

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