thaddius' Console Classic 2012 Edition: Round 12

[Valwin]

I don't know why you have such an opinion of me since left and right I say that to have the full experience of each console generation you need to have *every console a given generation has to offer*. I'm againts favourism due to superficial reasons, that's all.

My bad, wasn't really trying to target you in the comment, mainly trying to focus on the people involved.

These polls are usually ending with a certain agreement, but the agreement may not reflect reality. Just like quite a few people could make the poll state otherwise (imagine getting 100 random people vote for X and it'd be the complete opposite) Hell most people here could get the DS to just up in the preferences and trump the 3DS!

The internet, gotta love it

 

[Ace Overclocked]

daaaamn i made a mistake a chose pandora instead of 3ds, it's -1 pandora +1 3ds

 

[Foxi4]

so if the poll does not go the qtis way it does not represent reality ?

He meant to say that this kind of polls are fun rather then a representation of the factual situation, much like looking through a keyhole is not a representation of the entirety of an appartment, just a small fraction. Two polls in which 100 people gave their votes can end up with two very different outcomes depending on where they are carried out. Call me insane but I have a weird feeling that the Wii wouldn't do so well on PSX-Scene for example.

 

[Deleted_171835]

The specs increase in the DSi is relatively minor. It has two ARM CPUs (ARM9 and ARM7) just like the DS but at a higher clockspeed, 16MB of RAM which isn't much of an increase and a crappy camera. The DSi didn't even get much original games apart from a few gems on the DSiWare shop. It was essentially a DS with a slightly bigger screen and a bunch of useless features that no one really needed.

Iwata can sugarcoat it as much as he wants to, I don't care what he says when he's wrong, it's a different CPU, it has a different ammount of RAM, it works on a different OS with support for different games and only retains backwards compatibility due to hard-coded DS Bios in its firmware and the capacity to downclock to an appropriet level.

So now you're going to say that Iwata's sugarcoating things? He helped with creating the damn product, obviously he should know whether it's a revision or not. A small increase in specs does not mean that it is an entirely new system.

What do people here think of this 3D trend?

Loving it. 3D adds so much to the game experience (when done right) and helps with immersion a lot. 3D is like HD. It doesn't add anything to the gameplay but it helps with the presentation of a game and immersion.

Whilst i do agree with you that OoT on the N64 is very often quoted as being one of the best games ever (a fact which i don't agree with but that's by the by) OoT on the 3DS released in 2011 isn't. Simply looking at best of 2011 lists (for example) illustrate that. It's not that Ocarina is suddenly rubbish, more that it gathers momentum through the years due to the personal love many people have for it. I'm not trying to pick an argument over the game being the best ever, or over rated, merely that when it was released last year on the 3DS it wasn't a revolutionary game that stomped over every other game released that year or even the previous few...surely you can see the distinction?

Yeah, I know what you mean. But I would say the reason it didn't make any GOTY lists is not because the game didn't age well but rather because the 3DS version is essentially the same thing with better visuals. It isn't an original game but instead just a port/remake.

I'm not saying that a 3DS is better than a PSVita, but honestly how many of you people have actually played games/done things via the consoles? More than 15 minutes?

I've currently clocked 690 hours on my 3DS system with no games.

 

[thaddius]

Grk. Yeah. My bad. Haven't spoken French in years.

Nous savons vos point faible, thaddius! Soyez sur vos gardes, monsieur!

Faire attention, Foxi4, la premier règle to la forum est,

daaaamn i made a mistake a chose pandora instead of 3ds, it's -1 pandora +1 3ds

I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Foxi4]

The specs increase in the DSi is relatively minor. It has two ARM CPUs (ARM9 and ARM7) just like the DS but at a higher clockspeed, 16MB of RAM which isn't much of an increase and a crappy camera. The DSi didn't even get much original games apart from a few gems on the DSiWare shop. It was essentially a DS with a slightly bigger screen and a bunch of useless features that no one really needed.

Iwata can sugarcoat it as much as he wants to, I don't care what he says when he's wrong, it's a different CPU, it has a different ammount of RAM, it works on a different OS with support for different games and only retains backwards compatibility due to hard-coded DS Bios in its firmware and the capacity to downclock to an appropriet level.

So now you're going to say that Iwata's sugarcoating things? He helped with creating the damn product, obviously he should know whether it's a revision or not. A small increase in specs does not mean that it is an entirely new system.

1. Read my edit. I retracted my statement because Iwata never said it was a revision in the first place, it's the next product in the DS line of products, that's not the same thing.
2. The console has twice the processing power and four times the memory, alongside other changes in the hardware. They're *not* minor.

Faire attention, Foxi4, la premier règle to la forum est,

Je suis désolé, pardonnez-moi, thaddius...

I accidently voted 3DS but I actually didn't want to vote at all.

Take this one into accout aswell.

 

[Ace Overclocked]

Grk. Yeah. My bad. Haven't spoken French in years.

Nous savons vos point faible, thaddius! Soyez sur vos gardes, monsieur!

Faire attention, Foxi4, la premier règle to la forum est,

daaaamn i made a mistake a chose pandora instead of 3ds, it's -1 pandora +1 3ds

I'll keep that in mind.

non mais un peux de francais ne peut faire mal a personne, et en plus vous avez du chemin a faire, et oui on est une communaute anglaise alors je dois la boucler...
is my french any good?

 

[Valwin]

so if the poll does not go the qtis way it does not represent reality ?

He meant to say that this kind of polls are fun rather then a representation of the factual situation, much like looking through a keyhole is not a representation of the entirety of an appartment, just a small fraction. Two polls in which 100 people gave their votes can end up with two very different outcomes depending on where they are carried out. Call me insane but I have a weird feeling that the Wii wouldn't do so well on PSX-Scene for example.

last time i check gbatemp was general the only thing here that is not is the name i mean you here and stuff

 

[Deleted_171835]

1. Read my edit. I retracted my statement because Iwata never said it was a revision in the first place, it's the next product in the DS line of products, that's not the same thing.
2. The console has twice the processing power and four times the memory, alongside other changes in the hardware. They're *not* minor.

Now you're just grasping at straws here. Context helps a lot here and it's clear that they're talking about the DSi as a DS revision. Especially when you read the statement afterwards about it melding into the DS market.

Twice the processing power and four times the memory of the DS isn't much. It's pretty insignificant, actually and I'm sure you know that. Even so, that change in specs doesn't mean that it isn't a revision.

 

[Foxi4]

last time i check gbatemp was general the only thing here that is not is the name i mean you here and stuff

Fun Fact: I used to be a Nintendo Fanboii. But yeah, GBATemp is getting quite general, however it is still leaning towards the Nintendo side a bit, which isn't anything bad by no means, everybody to their tastes, but I just like to retain a level of objectivity in this kind of discussions. They're usually fun for me, especially when the oponent can find worthy arguments to support their claims and is generally a good sport about it.

I may seem like an asshole definatelly seem to be an asshole but I'm actually a very pleasant human being once you get to know me, I just like standing my ground when discussing things vigorously, so I don't know why you're singling me out. Nintendo consoles are the only ones I ever bought "New", every other console I own is pre-owned. I'm actually very dedicated to the company I so strictly criticize - I have this belief that if I voice out what I don't like, Nintendo may listen.

Twice the processing power and four times the memory of the DS isn't much. It's pretty insignificant, actually and I'm sure you know that. Even so, that change in specs doesn't mean that it isn't a revision.

The PSP-200x, 300x, Go and E-100x are revisions of the original PSP and work with the same type of executables (even if they all have a different hardware built) - they natively support them.

The Gameboy Pocket is a revision of the original Gameboy - despite having modified hardware it supports the same games natively.

The DSi supports DS titles via a compatibility layer.

See the difference between "revision" and "new release" ?

 

[emigre]

Here's a fun fact, I nearly bought a 3DS with Ocarina of Time.

 

[Foxi4]

@[member='thaddius']

Now that my mind is free of bickering about the stupid 3DS vs Vita discussion, something else caught my eye. In your previous battle of the handhelds you've included the N-Gage and N-Gage QD - Symbian phones designed for gaming. I was wondering, why aren't the PlayStation Certified Androids included in the poll? I'm refering to the Xperia Play, S1 and S2 - they are tailored for gaming afterall and they do have a dedicated Digital Distribution service with PlayStation Classics and dedicated games... did you just forget about them or did you have a reason not to include them? Not that including them now would make sense - they'd lose againts the 3DS anyways, I'm just curious.

 

[Deleted_171835]

The PSP-200x, 300x, Go and E-100x are revisions of the original PSP and work with the same type of executables (even if they all have a different hardware built) - they natively support them.

The Gameboy Pocket is a revision of the original Gameboy - despite having modified hardware it supports the same games natively.

The DSi supports DS titles via a compatibility layer.

See the difference between "revision" and "new release" ?

And that still doesn't mean that it isn't a revision. The *slightly* increased specs are the reason a compatibility layer is needed.

The fact that Iwata and others at Nintendo said it was a revision should have ended this argument. After all, they're the ones making and marketing the device. Surely they would know whether it was intended to be an entirely new console or a revision.

@[member='thaddius']

Now that my mind is free of bickering about the stupid 3DS vs Vita discussion, something else caught my eye. In your previous battle of the handhelds you've included the N-Gage and N-Gage QD - Symbian phones designed for gaming. I was wondering, why aren't the PlayStation Certified Androids included in the poll? I'm refering to the Xperia Play, S1 and S2 - they are tailored for gaming afterall and they do have a dedicated Digital Distribution service with PlayStation Classics and dedicated games... did you just forget about them or did you have a reason not to include them? Not that including them now would make sense - they'd lose againts the 3DS anyways, I'm just curious.

I would garner that it's because the Xperia Play hardly has any original games. Its library tends to consist of PSP , PS1 and enhance Android ports.

 

[Foxi4]

The fact that Iwata and others at Nintendo said it was a revision should have ended this argument. After all, they're the ones making and marketing the device. Surely they would know whether it was intended to be an entirely new console or a revision.

Except they didn't say that. I am officially dropping out of this discussion - hardware, firmware and software reasons should make it painfuly obvious as to why. I'm not going to convince you so why bother.

You did not procure any evidence to support your claim other then "because I was told so" when the factual, physical evidence points at the other direction. Jumping from Gekko to Broadway wasn't a big jump in terms of hardware either and yet we have a Gamecube and the Wii. At the end of the day, it's a matter of interpretation I suppose. I look at it from a practical standpoint, you look at it from a marketing standpoint.

EDIT: I thought I should bring one more issue up just for the heck of it - the DS and the DSi do not share a Development Kit - the two are in fact separate.

I would garner that it's because the Xperia Play hardly has any original games. Its library tends to consist of PSP , PS1 and enhance Android ports.

That's hardly a reason - many of the consoles presented have a library consisting entirely of ports, homebrew and emulators, and yet they were presented. It's a poll about gaming devices, not games.

 

[Qtis]

By accident lost my wall of responses.. If possible, I'll add my main points:

@[member='soulx']: I've clocked over 400 hours on my 3DS, but mainly because of DS compatibility. I could have done most of it via my DSL/DSiXL. My point is that if someone (so far) has managed to get a high amount of gaming hours on the 3DS, they'd either have enough money to buy all the games they wanted (a luxury I don't have) or they've played older games available (near launch titles or older DS games).

@[member='Valwin']: Foxi pretty much summed my point. The audience is the key factor here. If the poll was made at, say an "official Microsoft fan site", the results would be close to 360 60+% and the rest divided about evenly.

This topic, like many others (Essentials GC/Wii, PS1/2/3, GBA/DS, PSP), give some insight on what other people on GBAtemp think are great consoles/may have great games. I could actually blame quite a few people on GBAtemp for the reason I bought certain games and spent far too much time on them.


ps. A few games really lowered my grades during high school/in the beginning of University.. Damn you people for your suggestions! :I

EDIT: Typo..

 

[Foxi4]

A few games really lowered my grades during high school/in the beginning of University.. Damn you people for your suggestions! :I

Not alcohol, not drugs, not cigarettes but gaming impeded your intellectual progress. What a destructive force, I'm feelin' for ya.

 

[Fyrus]

Je suis désolé, pardonnez-moi, thaddius...

non mais un peux de francais ne peut faire mal a personne, et en plus vous avez du chemin a faire, et oui on est une communaute anglaise alors je dois la boucler...
is my french any good?

Really nice !

Grk. Yeah. My bad. Haven't spoken French in years.

Nous savons vos point faible, thaddius! Soyez sur vos gardes, monsieur!

Faire attention, Foxi4, la premier règle to la forum est,

Foxi's missed a few plural here and here, but this sentence is quite good.

 

[Foxi4]

Foxi's missed a few plural here and here, but this sentence is quite good.

*GASPS!* Can you correct it for me and send it to me over PM? I used to study french so I still sometimes use it. X3

And yes, I use the formal form of Vous, I refrain from adressing people by Tu.

 

[Fyrus]

Foxi's missed a few plural here and here, but this sentence is quite good.

*GASPS!* Can you correct it for me and send it to me over PM? I used to study french so I still sometimes use it. X3

And yes, I use the formal form of Vous, I refrain from adressing people by Tu.

Well, there's only missing S on "Point" and "Faible", since you go with "Vous", you have to use the plural here.

But that's one of the hardest part to catch for people that aren't really native to French.

 

[Foxi4]

Foxi's missed a few plural here and here, but this sentence is quite good.

*GASPS!* Can you correct it for me and send it to me over PM? I used to study french so I still sometimes use it. X3

And yes, I use the formal form of Vous, I refrain from adressing people by Tu.

Well, there's only missing S on "Point" and "Faible", since you go with "Vous", you have to use the plural here.

But that's one of the hardest part to catch for people that aren't really native to French.

Ah, I see... I thought that if I add the "s" there, it will mean "weak points" rather then "weak point"... Must've been one of those lessons on which I didn't pay attention, thank you for that.

I mean, Merci beaucoup!