Hacking So up to what gen do you think Switch can emulate?

notimp

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So are you implying that this OC generalization applies to all hardware scenarios? Or just mobile hardware ones? Plus it really wouldn’t be OC’ing it like you said, just restoring it’s full power at the cost of component and battery life(most likely)
All scenarios, for the "normal user".

- You will never escape the thermal ceilings of a build/design (especially true for mobile devices).
- Money invested in OC equipment/OC capable/delimited hardware would be better invested in the next "step up" (performance based) stock part, or saved for the next upgrade down the road.
- Benefits for "normal users" are 10% performance (clockrate) gain on CPUs, and maybe 5-10 fps on OCing GPUs. 10% gain on CPUs is not noticeable in day by day scenarios, 5-10 fps might - but mostly in edge cases (arguments to follow).
- The downsides are either huge or costly. Meaning increased fanspeeds on GPUs that you will notice (back to thermal design...), or having to go or better aftermarket equipment (can be costly). On the PC side everyone will start to ask for a premium for even the privilege. The cpu you are buyng suddenly has to be the unlocked version, the motherboard you are buying has to be the one series where limiters are not set, the GPU you are buying should be the one with the best thermal package out of the box which is sold factory overclocked, at a premium to begin with - because the manufacturers know what they are selling and to whom.

Here are the scenaries where OCing makes sense.

- If you are a cryptocurrency miner, that has to get his cycles in, before the problems to solve get harder.
- If you are 5 fps away from either stable 30 or 60 frames on "the game you love"
. If you are running a rendering farm and your profitability is directly related to time spent and not so much to upfront cost

The thing is, the scenario where you absolutely need 5 more frames in any game "of the generation", are few and fae inbetween, because if you are not Crytech, you design for whats available on the market on average at "time of release", and the difference between high and ultra (/the next step up) is usually more than people can jump reliably by OCing.

OCing is mostly a market that works very well for "its own customers" and not for anyone else. Meaning highly specialiced, fringe, you know the type. ;)

There might be exceptions ("that one part where the manufacturer wanted to sell down his capabilities, and forgot to lock, .."), but those arent the rule. As a general notion "you've been roped in" is a much better notion to hold in regard to "what overclocking can do for you", than the notion that it leads to great benefits in most cases.

If you are getting +25% performance out of a stock configuration (thermal design), you are not overclocking. (See PSP -) Overclocking lives within the narrow niche of chip manufacturers not reliably being able to hit a higher performance goal. (Which brings us back to yield - and the fact that some chips fall out of manufacturing better than others, which I havent even used for the argument in here so far. Neither have I used decreased lifespan (temperature), because there are better arguments to make.).

If you are hung up on the "restoring" part - read my previous posting again. You cant restore stuff, thats not reliably there. When the PSP was designed the chipset was a middle of the market performer, that was then underclocked to fit power consumption needs for the mobile space. The X1 is a top of the market, high performance piece, that the manufacturer will be very happy to sell "lower yield" versions of to any corperate client. That you would be able to "restore it" to X1 performance levels, most likely is a myth.

The thing with "dudebros" only ever read "X1" and not the "close to" part, is very strong in this forum.

edit: There is a possibility that I have this argument backwards in relation to the X1 chipset, and it goes like this: nVidia put out fake "can hold them for 10 seconds on our thermal budget" values for their Shield TV to begin with (see: https://gbatemp.net/threads/confirm...tock-nvidia-tegra-x1-no-modifications.464725/ ), in which case GCN and WiiU emulation might be in - but with a big questionmark over its existence (can we reach Nintendos emulation efficiency - without seeing any of the source code and less driver documentation).
Its important to understand, that even in that case there is nothing to "restore" performance wise. N will run with the frequency that can reliably be reproduced within thermal limits (when docked, power consumption limitations dont factor in).

If you are talking about "restoring" docked performance in portable mode - that may be possible, but its not advisable (back to the 2 hours of portable PSP fun argument, fanspeed, ...).
 
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Nothing higher than the 6th gen consoles i would asume excluding the xbox i guess.
 

thekarter104

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N64 some titles 100% when an emulator is not in its beta state or earlier or something. Not sure if Perfect Dark can emulate without lags.
Maybe it can emulate Dolphin too.
 

notimp

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This thread seems to indicate, that the Chip in the Switch is not an X1, but a custom design, probably lower yield within the X1 manufacturing process: https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/5uyqq0/switch_teardown_chinese_leaks_more_links_in/

"Restoring" is not a thing.

Edit: Scratch that, superseeded by die shots, that show the exact same architecture.

At this point, we'd need benchmarks to confirm if all cores are active and running at full X1 speeds.

Edit2:

And this is as close to the real truth as we can currently get:

Updates to aspects such as clock-speeds are added in further SDK updates, beyond the scope of the leak. As things stand, we're up to SDK version 4.1, whereas the leak offers up docs from an older SDK 3.4 revision. The July 2016 data also suggests that one of the four ARM cores is reserved for the system, while the odd fill-rate spec we've discussed in the past (it should be 16 pixels per cycle for Tegra X1, not 14.4) may suggest that the Switch also reserves 10 per cent of GPU time for the system too. Again, these elements have not been adjusted to the best of our knowledge, but we suspect that in common with the clocks, any changes may have been communicated to developers via specific updates.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-boosts-handheld-switch-clocks-by-25-per-cent

Those are aspects that are not "restoreable", or "overclockable" awayable... ;)
 
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nmkd

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It's simple...

Everything from the 20th century won't be a problem.

DS will work if we get a decent emulator (DraStic for example).
PSP will work fine with 95% of games, heavy titles like GoW or Silent Hill might get slowdowns.
PS2 will never work with all games, but there are small chances of getting a PS2 emu that can play a good bunch of games.
GC has a bit better chances, if we get a solid Dolphin port most games would be playable.

OG Xbox won't happen.
Anything newer than a 2001 home console or a 2005 handheld won't happen either.
 

The Real Jdbye

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GC/Wii will be hard to do fullspeed, but Nintendo might be able to pull it off with Virtual Console, since they know exactly how the systems work.
PSP/DS should be no problem.
PS2 I'm not sure about. It's tricky to run properly (although not terribly demanding) and the emulators aren't as mature as Dolphin. It could be doable with some serious effort put into it, but even Android doesn't have a truly good PS2 emulator yet.
 
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CeeDee

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I can't see anything above fifth gen (N64/PS1) running via fanmade homebrew emulators. If Nintendo makes a GameCube/Wii emulator it'll run fine, but a Dolphin port probably won't. Same goes for PS2/Xbox original, doubt those'll run full speed.
 
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nmkd

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I can't see anything above fifth gen (N64/PS1) running via fanmade homebrew emulators. If Nintendo makes a GameCube/Wii emulator it'll run fine, but a Dolphin port probably won't. Same goes for PS2/Xbox original, doubt those'll run full speed.

PSP and Dreamcast will work (well, not sure which gen DC actually is), and a community-driven Dolphin port does have chances of running games well (GPD Win runs many GC games and is a bit weaker than an undocked Switch).
 

CeeDee

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PSP and Dreamcast will work (well, not sure which gen DC actually is), and a community-driven Dolphin port does have chances of running games well (GPD Win runs many GC games and is a bit weaker than an undocked Switch).
Yeah, I think PSP and Nintendo DS will work fine, given they're handhelds from later gens, and about as powerful as PS1/N64.
 

nmkd

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Yeah, I think PSP and Nintendo DS will work fine, given they're handhelds from later gens, and about as powerful as PS1/N64.

About as powerful as PSX/N64?

The DS maybe.

The PSP is damn powerful for what it is, much stronger than a PSX. Some games look almost like PS2 games.
 

CeeDee

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About as powerful as PSX/N64?

The DS maybe.

The PSP is damn powerful for what it is, much stronger than a PSX. Some games look almost like PS2 games.
I'll be honest, I have next to no knowledge of the PSP, but seeing it runs on systems like SNES Classic and 3DS (IIRC?) decently, it must not be all that powerful.
 

nmkd

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I'll be honest, I have next to no knowledge of the PSP, but seeing it runs on systems like SNES Classic and 3DS (IIRC?) decently, it must not be all that powerful.

Ehhh... SNES possibly, but 3DS not lol. EDIT: Nope, it can't.

The N3DS can't even emulate PS1.
 
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ShroomKing

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I'll be honest, I have next to no knowledge of the PSP, but seeing it runs on systems like SNES Classic and 3DS (IIRC?) decently, it must not be all that powerful.
3ds can't emulate psp. And the psp was pretty darn powerful, i mean which handheld had a 333mhz cpu and a 166mhz gpu in 2005?! (even 2004 in japan)
 

CeeDee

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Ehhh... SNES possibly, but 3DS not lol. EDIT: Nope, it can't.

The N3DS can't even emulate PS1.
3ds can't emulate psp. And the psp was pretty darn powerful, i mean which handheld had a 333mhz cpu and a 166mhz gpu in 2005?! (even 2004 in japan)
Hm, guess I was mistaken. Thought I saw a PPSSPP port at one point.
 

brickmii82

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All scenarios, for the "normal user".

- You will never escape the thermal ceilings of a build/design (especially true for mobile devices).
- Money invested in OC equipment/OC capable/delimited hardware would be better invested in the next "step up" (performance based) stock part, or saved for the next upgrade down the road.
- Benefits for "normal users" are 10% performance (clockrate) gain on CPUs, and maybe 5-10 fps on OCing GPUs. 10% gain on CPUs is not noticeable in day by day scenarios, 5-10 fps might - but mostly in edge cases (arguments to follow).
- The downsides are either huge or costly. Meaning increased fanspeeds on GPUs that you will notice (back to thermal design...), or having to go or better aftermarket equipment (can be costly). On the PC side everyone will start to ask for a premium for even the privilege. The cpu you are buyng suddenly has to be the unlocked version, the motherboard you are buying has to be the one series where limiters are not set, the GPU you are buying should be the one with the best thermal package out of the box which is sold factory overclocked, at a premium to begin with - because the manufacturers know what they are selling and to whom.

Here are the scenaries where OCing makes sense.

- If you are a cryptocurrency miner, that has to get his cycles in, before the problems to solve get harder.
- If you are 5 fps away from either stable 30 or 60 frames on "the game you love"
. If you are running a rendering farm and your profitability is directly related to time spent and not so much to upfront cost

The thing is, the scenario where you absolutely need 5 more frames in any game "of the generation", are few and fae inbetween, because if you are not Crytech, you design for whats available on the market on average at "time of release", and the difference between high and ultra (/the next step up) is usually more than people can jump reliably by OCing.

OCing is mostly a market that works very well for "its own customers" and not for anyone else. Meaning highly specialiced, fringe, you know the type. ;)

There might be exceptions ("that one part where the manufacturer wanted to sell down his capabilities, and forgot to lock, .."), but those arent the rule. As a general notion "you've been roped in" is a much better notion to hold in regard to "what overclocking can do for you", than the notion that it leads to great benefits in most cases.

If you are getting +25% performance out of a stock configuration (thermal design), you are not overclocking. (See PSP -) Overclocking lives within the narrow niche of chip manufacturers not reliably being able to hit a higher performance goal. (Which brings us back to yield - and the fact that some chips fall out of manufacturing better than others, which I havent even used for the argument in here so far. Neither have I used decreased lifespan (temperature), because there are better arguments to make.).

If you are hung up on the "restoring" part - read my previous posting again. You cant restore stuff, thats not reliably there. When the PSP was designed the chipset was a middle of the market performer, that was then underclocked to fit power consumption needs for the mobile space. The X1 is a top of the market, high performance piece, that the manufacturer will be very happy to sell "lower yield" versions of to any corperate client. That you would be able to "restore it" to X1 performance levels, most likely is a myth.

The thing with "dudebros" only ever read "X1" and not the "close to" part, is very strong in this forum.

edit: There is a possibility that I have this argument backwards in relation to the X1 chipset, and it goes like this: nVidia put out fake "can hold them for 10 seconds on our thermal budget" values for their Shield TV to begin with (see: https://gbatemp.net/threads/confirm...tock-nvidia-tegra-x1-no-modifications.464725/ ), in which case GCN and WiiU emulation might be in - but with a big questionmark over its existence (can we reach Nintendos emulation efficiency - without seeing any of the source code and less driver documentation).
Its important to understand, that even in that case there is nothing to "restore" performance wise. N will run with the frequency that can reliably be reproduced within thermal limits (when docked, power consumption limitations dont factor in).

If you are talking about "restoring" docked performance in portable mode - that may be possible, but its not advisable (back to the 2 hours of portable PSP fun argument, fanspeed, ...).
I don’t wanna derail the topic too much farther(are we? This does fall into the subject matter indirectly, right?) but at 4K resolutions or on the hashrate measurement those extra cycles make a huge difference for me on my rigs. I have a 5 GPU miner and that extra 10-15 mh/s adds up to a lot. You mentioned that it makes sense for miners so I’d have to agree with you vehemently lol. My other rig is a media workstation/gaming rig with a Ryzen 1700 with a 240mm AIO and a Seahawk 1070 on a custom cooling loop. I don’t know if this goes against your argument or defends it as liquid cooling changes thermal parameters, but at 4K the OC I can get on that 1070 and 1700 together takes framerates up from around 35-40 to 50-60. The Ryzen is at 4.0ghz and stock is 3.0. The 1070 is at 2125 on the core clock and 4200 on the memory, stock is 1850 and 3750 respectively. I do also do a lot of video rendering on it so I guess it falls into that part too, but idk. I suppose with the Switch it really couldn’t make THAT much of a difference to possibly not even be noticeable. I still think they’ll get good PS1 performance out of it though.
 
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