Just passing by to say further thanks to everyone involved in this project.
I've done some (completely different) translation work in the past and I know how long this takes.
It means a lot to me to be able to play this game one day, so once again, you're the best guys ! Your efforts will be hugely appreciated, that's for sure.
I've done some (completely different) translation work in the past and I know how long this takes.
It means a lot to me to be able to play this game one day, so once again, you're the best guys ! Your efforts will be hugely appreciated, that's for sure.
Last edited by diegowar,
On behalf of the Ace Attorney fandom, thank you SO, SO MUCH for working so hard and allowing us to play this in English.
Enjoying it a lot so far. I thought the lack of Westernisation etc would bother me as I'm so used to the other games in the series, but honestly, it stops being a big deal after the first few minutes. I really missed Shu Takumi's writing... thank god we get one last taste of it, because not like he'll be returning to write for the main series T___T
Enjoying it a lot so far. I thought the lack of Westernisation etc would bother me as I'm so used to the other games in the series, but honestly, it stops being a big deal after the first few minutes. I really missed Shu Takumi's writing... thank god we get one last taste of it, because not like he'll be returning to write for the main series T___T
First off I want to thank you all for your hard work, and I am enjoying the translation so far (I'm at the first cross examination)
I know this topic has been debated to death, and it may be far too late to change your position on this but I haven't seen this particular point brought up...
Regarding "localization" - Would it be possible to very loosely tie this game into the western continuity by working in something along the lines of... "Our story begins with Phoenix Wright's distant ancestor, Ryunosuke, in the Empire of Japan" to the opening cutscene? Or perhaps somewhere in dialogue?
One drawback of the unchanged names is that in Japanese there is a direct implication by their family names that Ryunosuke and Auchi are ancestors of their modern counterparts, and that others such as Susato and Barok are not. To the English-speaking audience, without the familiar American names this distinction is lost in translation, and it would be easy to assume all or nothing expecting, say, Susato to reveal ties to spirit channeling. I do not support "Americanization" or "whitewashing" for this game, and I don't expect it tonally to match the writing style of the other Ace Attorney games. However there are small compromises that could wrap the continuity up in a neat little bow without the need for pesky translation notes or assumptions that the player has prior knowledge that there series was always in Japan.
Two fantastic suggestions I saw passed around on the Court Records forum are "Ryunosuke Raito" and "Shuriken Payne". The former "Raito" accomplishes the inform-the-player-that-this-is-Phoenix's-Japanese-ancestor goal with more subtlety than an upfront explanation while also persisting through the entire game (and the sequel). It wouldn't stick out too much, as his nameplate would still say "Ryunosuke", but the profile would always be there to remind you. The latter "Shuriken Payne" is worth it just for the joke imo. As a joke character I feel that the humor is more important than accuracy, but to that end you could get away with Payne by implying that it's a title, nickname, anagram, or even just writing jokey dialogue poking fun of the absurdity of the name. Maybe write in dialogue mentioning his real name in passing so that we'll know he's Japanese.
I'm not married to any one of these ideas, but I just ask that you'd consider at least some of them. I truly believe that if Capcom were translating, they wouldn't attempt any type of drastic rewrite, but they would aim for a subtle accommodation similar to this.
I know this topic has been debated to death, and it may be far too late to change your position on this but I haven't seen this particular point brought up...
Regarding "localization" - Would it be possible to very loosely tie this game into the western continuity by working in something along the lines of... "Our story begins with Phoenix Wright's distant ancestor, Ryunosuke, in the Empire of Japan" to the opening cutscene? Or perhaps somewhere in dialogue?
One drawback of the unchanged names is that in Japanese there is a direct implication by their family names that Ryunosuke and Auchi are ancestors of their modern counterparts, and that others such as Susato and Barok are not. To the English-speaking audience, without the familiar American names this distinction is lost in translation, and it would be easy to assume all or nothing expecting, say, Susato to reveal ties to spirit channeling. I do not support "Americanization" or "whitewashing" for this game, and I don't expect it tonally to match the writing style of the other Ace Attorney games. However there are small compromises that could wrap the continuity up in a neat little bow without the need for pesky translation notes or assumptions that the player has prior knowledge that there series was always in Japan.
Two fantastic suggestions I saw passed around on the Court Records forum are "Ryunosuke Raito" and "Shuriken Payne". The former "Raito" accomplishes the inform-the-player-that-this-is-Phoenix's-Japanese-ancestor goal with more subtlety than an upfront explanation while also persisting through the entire game (and the sequel). It wouldn't stick out too much, as his nameplate would still say "Ryunosuke", but the profile would always be there to remind you. The latter "Shuriken Payne" is worth it just for the joke imo. As a joke character I feel that the humor is more important than accuracy, but to that end you could get away with Payne by implying that it's a title, nickname, anagram, or even just writing jokey dialogue poking fun of the absurdity of the name. Maybe write in dialogue mentioning his real name in passing so that we'll know he's Japanese.
I'm not married to any one of these ideas, but I just ask that you'd consider at least some of them. I truly believe that if Capcom were translating, they wouldn't attempt any type of drastic rewrite, but they would aim for a subtle accommodation similar to this.
You're right, it is far too late to change our position, and this has really been debated to death and beyond.
What I don't understand is - why do you need it to tie in with the main series? Except for Ryuunosuke, Auchi, the sword and a few tiny references like the name of his university - they are completely separate. DGS would work perfectly fine on its own without any connection to the main series. There is no "continuity" and I don't think a few small translation notes are a bad thing (and why are they "pesky"?).
Think of what you're asking us to do here: you want us to rewrite a story in a significant way. Adding something that wasn't the intention of the original author - and it's not just changing a pun, a cultural reference or a joke. I know people always bring up AAI2 in this situation, but you can't compare the two. AAI1 was already localized and it tied in well with the rest of the AA main series. DGS does not.
This is already enough to dismiss your suggestion, but then there's this: what if there ever was a DGS3? We can't rule it out. What if whatever changes we made would create huge problems with that story? Not to mention that "Payne" is not a Japanese name and we're not keen on any names Dowolf has come up with.
You seem to like what we did and I'm happy for that. Maybe play a little further and see if you still need it to tie in with the main series. We think it does not - it can stand on its own.
D
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Loving episode 2 so far.
Tbh, any attempts at further localisation are pretty much entirely unnecessary.
Although I do like the name 'Shuriken Payne', it's just not needed, at all.
To be honest I would imagine, if there was real demand for it, a 'localisation' patch could be unofficially made by some members as a 'mod mod'. Not that I'm suggesting such a thing, just, if there was really that big demand (which I doubt) it could be done and I'm sure you could lead the project if you wanted, lol. I doubt the translation team would have any particular moral objection to that, just they don't want to do it themselves as part of their own project...
Tbh, any attempts at further localisation are pretty much entirely unnecessary.
Although I do like the name 'Shuriken Payne', it's just not needed, at all.
To be honest I would imagine, if there was real demand for it, a 'localisation' patch could be unofficially made by some members as a 'mod mod'. Not that I'm suggesting such a thing, just, if there was really that big demand (which I doubt) it could be done and I'm sure you could lead the project if you wanted, lol. I doubt the translation team would have any particular moral objection to that, just they don't want to do it themselves as part of their own project...
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Actually, we would. We don't want our work associated with that. If you want it, you have to translate it yourself from scratch.
D
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This reply surprises me. I mean isn't that exactly what you're doing with DGS in the first place, creating an additional (and unauthorised) layer on top of it? It would be no 'morally' different for someone else to add an extra mod to your project then it is for you to add your project to Capcom's (although yours is far more useful).
I certainly wouldn't want that particular localisation project myself, I think what you're doing is great and I'm fully behind your reasons not to localise - I'm just saying, clearly you're morally fine with the concept of modifications being released that tweak a project, so... I don't see why you would be opposed to someone doing exactly the same to yours.
That's the wonderful thing about user-created content such as mods, translation patches and the like, the freedom that people have to extend or change things.
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No, it's not. Certainly, we don't have Capcom's permission to translate their game, but there is no English version of it yet and they haven't explicitly told us to stop (that would be the end of this project). But in the fan-translation scene it's common courtesy to ask permission if you want to make changes to an existing translation or want to re-translate it to another language (which we do allow for later when we're done making changes to the earlier Episodes - we are already in contact with teams who are interested in doing that).
We can't stop anyone from doing it, but we would take offense to it, since this is something we feel strongly about. It would certainly be frowned upon in the fan-translation scene.
D
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I mean, I guess I get where you're coming from. You've explicitly said no, Capcom hasn't. I suppose my point was that neither you nor a potential re-modder has 'active' consent, but I guess in the fan translation scene that isn't usually the case anyway and you could argue 'implied consent' from the fact they haven't explicitly said 'no', although I suppose it is a rather specific moral distinction.
Either way, keep up the good work.
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My point is that this idea usually comes from people that haven't played the game yet. They think the game is as closely connected to the main series as AAI was - which it is not. Most people I know of abandoned this idea when they actually played the game.
Thanks, we will. We have some nice surprises for everyone in the pipeline.
Hi, I'd just like to thank you for the amazing work so far. Ace Attorney has been one of my favorite series for well over a decade, and I was distraught when this title was not localized. The games have helped me through a lot of very tough times so to see people working so hard to bring them to everybody is wonderful. Thank you very much. I wish I had the skills to assist you because I think everyone should be able to play this game.
What about the tools only your group has access to? That exclusivity prevents most people from not only modifying your work, but modifying the game in any meaningful way.
What else do you want to modify? If you're hoping for a case-maker, our tools can't do that.
It could theoretically be used to insert fan cases if they were rigidly designed around the structure of the original (like your teaser trailer), but I agree it would be impractcal and pointless.
What I had in mind was somebody using your tools to make their own translation (from scratch).
Also consider if your tools were open source then outsiders could improve them. Maybe one day we'll get the case maker of our dreams, but it'd need a script editor and English font to build off of.
Everyone who wants to do a new translation from scratch would need a team like ours. Because there is a lot of work going in to this. You may be underestimating just how much work it is. I seriously doubt you will find enough people passionate enough about Dowolf's translation to build a team around it. Don't forget: textures, dialogue (much more than the stuff you see on YouTube), UI hacking (that's the one that is really a bitch), testing, tweaking the timing, changing control codes so they make sense in the English version, keeping a team motivated over years, ...
You may disagree, but I really doubt it.
And about the case making: use any of the existing case makers. The 3D era games hardcode a lot of stuff, you would need extensive changes to the binary (much, much more than what we do), a lot of changes to files we don't even touch in our patch and many more tools to get the job done. It's not worth the trouble.
What you get in our released patch is the concentrated, condensed version of years of research, translation, coding, editing, etc, etc... It looks easy once you get the end result of our work, but believe me - it's not.
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It's May tomorrow, can I ask what Episode 3 status is?
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