Practical differences between EmuNAND and RedNAND?

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by pustal, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. pustal
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    pustal Koalafied member.

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    As discussed here I can understand the conceptual difference, or at least its origin and that at least is a practical difference on New 3DS with 1.8GB NAND.

    Aside that is there a difference that can cause problems? Namely following Pailect's A9LH guide? My biggest concern would be in the parts where it copies RedNAND to SysNAND.

    By the way, I have previously have followed this guide. I understand that some people refer to RedNAND as EmuNAND and don't make a distinction between RedNAND and GW EmuNAND. Can someone take a look at the guide and check if it is actually using GW EmuNAND or in fact is using RedNAND?

    Thanks in advance for any and all help.

    Edit: I'm approaching the OTP dumping with and old 3DS, hence the doubts.
     
    Last edited by pustal, Apr 4, 2016


  2. astronautlevel

    astronautlevel The Young Descendent of Tepes

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    If you already have emunand, substitute every instance of "RedNAND" with "EmuNAND" in the guide and you'll be fine.

    Otherwise, just go with RedNAND as the guide says.
     
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  3. pustal
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    pustal Koalafied member.

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    I'm trying to dump OTP in an Old 3DS now, should it make a difference?
     
  4. astronautlevel

    astronautlevel The Young Descendent of Tepes

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    No. Like I said, just use RedNAND if you haven't set anything up already and use EmuNAND if you already have one.
     
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  5. pustal
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    pustal Koalafied member.

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    Alright, thank you.
     
  6. xx4xx4

    xx4xx4 Member

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    i have RXtools installed in my N3DS XL with menuhax where do i start in the guide?
     
  7. pustal
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    pustal Koalafied member.

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    If you have EmuNAND / RedNAND set up on the microSD card, part 4, if not, part 3.
     
  8. YourHero

    YourHero GBAtemp Maniac

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    So what is REDNand? Google got nothing for this thus far.
     
  9. astronautlevel

    astronautlevel The Young Descendent of Tepes

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    Redirected NAND is an EmuNAND alternative. Only practical benefit is that it has a smaller size on the 1.8 gig n3ds
     
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  10. pustal
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    pustal Koalafied member.

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    Essentially is EmuNAND but not implemented by Gateway. Red stands for 'redirected', and as far as I understand, here is just another way of saying emulated. Main difference is that saves space if you have a New 3DS Toshiba NAND. Applications seem to treat it the same way though.
     
    Last edited by pustal, Apr 5, 2016
  11. YourHero

    YourHero GBAtemp Maniac

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    Ok thats actually the one thing google did give me but it didn't sound right to me. But ok, no need for me to do this then.
     
  12. GerbilSoft

    GerbilSoft GBAtemp Addict

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    The technical difference is how it stores NAND sector 0.

    Assume we have a NAND with N sectors, with sector addresses [0, N-1].

    Gateway-style EmuNAND stores NAND sectors [1, N-1] at SD sectors [1, N-1], and then stores EmuNAND sector 0 at SD sector N.
    RedNAND stores NAND sectors [0, N-1] at SD sectors [1, N]; basically, it increases the sector ID by 1.

    While it might look like Gateway-style is more efficient, it's actually less efficient than RedNAND, since it requires a branch. RedNAND simply requires an addition for all NAND accesses.

    Since Gateway-style EmuNAND requires NAND sector 0 to be stored at SD sector N, the reserved space is always at least the size of the original NAND. The 1.8 GB NANDs don't actually make use of the last 600 MB, so this wastes space.

    With RedNAND, NAND sector 0 is stored at SD sector 1, and since the last 600 MB of the NAND isn't actually used, you can shrink it down to 1240 MB (same size as 1.2 GB N3DSes).

    tl;dr you can save around 600 MB of space on the SD card by using RedNAND if you have a 1.8 GB N3DS; for other models, it doesn't really make much of a difference. (If you use a Gateway card, you'll obviously have to use Gateway-style EmuNAND.)
     
    Last edited by GerbilSoft, Apr 5, 2016 - Reason: +tl;dr
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  13. zoogie

    zoogie simple pimp tool

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    I honestly don't care if it's a slight improvement. The important thing is that it creates a new mutually incompatible standard, and that's a bad thing.
     
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  14. LunaLogic

    LunaLogic Gimme DLDI please.

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    Still I don't know how to create a redNAND and didn't find any guide to it.
     
  15. Rosselman

    Rosselman Spooky Skeleton

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    Just use Emunand9Tool. It even can convert a EmuNAND to RedNAND.
     
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  16. pustal
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    pustal Koalafied member.

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    So far, none of the applications I used seem to make a distinction or behave differently. Dunno if they follow the system and hence read the NANDs as they are told or have code for both cases.

    Edit: Actually, now that I think of it, 3DS Multi EmuNAND Creator seemed to have a problem with GW Emunand regarding sectors, maybe it was designed for RedNAND.

    If you still need a guide: https://github.com/Plailect/Guide/wiki/Part-3-(RedNAND)
     
    Last edited by pustal, Apr 5, 2016
  17. XiaoDii

    XiaoDii Member

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    The latest release of emuNAND9 can create a redNAND, and convert a emuNAND to a redNAND.
     
    Last edited by XiaoDii, Apr 5, 2016
  18. SirByte

    SirByte GBAtemp Fan

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    How about Decrypt9? That's where we flash an emunand to our sysnand in order to get OTP...
     
  19. astronautlevel

    astronautlevel The Young Descendent of Tepes

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    Decrypt9 fully supports RedNand now.
     
  20. LinkmstrYT

    LinkmstrYT ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    You wanted to see where I live? You stalker...
    Do I need to backup the sd card before doing the conversion or no?