Permanent 3DS Save Files

[Bowser-jr]

If you can't delete, couldn't you just start a new game and over-write the save file or something?

 

[Necron]

@Zetta_x Nothing changed about the save file itself, they just don't give you the option to reset it. In Mercenaries 3D you can even corrupt the save file using the NDS Adapter plus and upont starting the game it asks you to delete it.

It still sounds like a new feature to the 3ds and how it processes saves. I'm not talking about the save file is different, I'm talking about internally how a save file is written, stored, and read from. It may be a new feature to the 3ds in which developers can utilize within games. Once a game gets corrupted, the 3ds may not recognize the save file so it bypasses what it is trying to do.

All I am saying that, internally, it may be a possibility that the way the save file is processed has been modified and if a flashcart existed it may break it because the flash card wouldn't know how to handle this new save process.

But you have a wrong basis. You're supposing that the flashcard is going to be made with the same format as we have now. To be a functional flashcard, it would need to function like a retail cart, so the save system should be the same.

 

[Zetta_x]

That's the thing, we don't know if they just simply removed all possibilities on creating a new game from the game itself or utilized a new 3ds feature that prevents the game from allowing the user to create a new save. Considering none of us has some type of developer kit for the 3ds, it's kind of hard to say. However, notice that a good number of 3ds games are using it where on other consoles it is not as popular which suggest there is something built into the 3ds firmware that allows this to be done easily.

 

[Deleted User]

@Zetta_x Nothing changed about the save file itself, they just don't give you the option to reset it. In Mercenaries 3D you can even corrupt the save file using the NDS Adapter plus and upont starting the game it asks you to delete it.

It still sounds like a new feature to the 3ds and how it processes saves. I'm not talking about the save file is different, I'm talking about internally how a save file is written, stored, and read from. It may be a new feature to the 3ds in which developers can utilize within games. Once a game gets corrupted, the 3ds may not recognize the save file so it bypasses what it is trying to do.

All I am saying that, internally, it may be a possibility that the way the save file is processed has been modified and if a flashcart existed it may break it because the flash card wouldn't know how to handle this new save process.

I doubt that it's a new feature, from what I gathered, the only new feature to 3DS game saves is that they're encrypted. Capcom would've told the press if it's a feature of the SDK to make the people criticise Nintendo instead, but they didn't even say that Mercenaries is not the only game.
Take a look at this video, it clearly shows how the developers just didn't include the delete/reset function in the menu.

 

[machomuu]

Considering none of us has some type of developer kit for the 3ds, it's kind of hard to say. However, notice that a good number of 3ds games are using it where on other consoles it is not as popular which suggest there is something built into the 3ds firmware that allows this to be done easily.

How would it suggest that? Not every game on the 3DS does this, and we can conclude that it's not a requirement that game developers make the saves permanent based on that evidence.

 

[Necron]

That's the thing, we don't know if they just simply removed all possibilities on creating a new game from the game itself or utilized a new 3ds feature that prevents the game from allowing the user to create a new save. Considering none of us has some type of developer kit for the 3ds, it's kind of hard to say. However, notice that a good number of 3ds games are using it where on other consoles it is not as popular which suggest there is something built into the 3ds firmware that allows this to be done easily.

Based on of what I read and what FAST said before, it is possible to extract the save from the 3DS cart, and the restore option may be already implemented (don't know if the tool is already updated to do that), so this should not be an issue to people with some tools (probably in the future you will have some homebrew to extract and restores saves to a 3ds cart with a ds or 3ds flash)

 

[Zetta_x]

But you have a wrong basis. You're supposing that the flashcard is going to be made with the same format as we have now. To be a functional flashcard, it would need to function like a retail cart, so the save system should be the same.

Oh no, I know that if a flashcard is ever going to be made it's going to have to act as if it was a retail game. If it were not, Nintendo would have no problem blocking it. The true question is, how possible can one be made if the saves are processed differently?

I really don't know the insides of a 3ds and it's cartridges. I assumed there is a writable memory section and then the game itself. The way flashcards worked is that the writable memory section would be a folder on the SD card and the game itself would be another folder. Then the flashcard has in-built codes that commands the DS where these are located and how they can be accessed etc to emulate saving to a retail card. However, the save process was pretty standard. It just seemed like 3ds carts were built differently or something in the firmware was designed to complicate save features which may not let flashcards that have loaded memory cards work.

I don't even know why I care, I don't plan on buying a 3ds lols

 

[machomuu]

But you have a wrong basis. You're supposing that the flashcard is going to be made with the same format as we have now. To be a functional flashcard, it would need to function like a retail cart, so the save system should be the same.

Oh no, I know that if a flashcard is ever going to be made it's going to have to act as if it was a retail game. If it were not, Nintendo would have no problem blocking it.

Y'know, like the with the DS, and we weren't able to bypass tha- oh wait.

 

[Zetta_x]

Considering none of us has some type of developer kit for the 3ds, it's kind of hard to say. However, notice that a good number of 3ds games are using it where on other consoles it is not as popular which suggest there is something built into the 3ds firmware that allows this to be done easily.

How would it suggest that? Not every game on the 3DS does this, and we can conclude that it's not a requirement that game developers make the saves permanent based on that evidence.

Because the games are from different developers and I doubt they all gathered around making their games and made a joke about not being able to save. It sounds like it's something that can easily be done when developing a game.

 

[Zetta_x]

But you have a wrong basis. You're supposing that the flashcard is going to be made with the same format as we have now. To be a functional flashcard, it would need to function like a retail cart, so the save system should be the same.

Oh no, I know that if a flashcard is ever going to be made it's going to have to act as if it was a retail game. If it were not, Nintendo would have no problem blocking it.

Y'know, like the with the DS, and we weren't able to bypass tha- oh wait.

Lmao... I'm glad we agree. I don't know if you misread my sentence lols

 

[machomuu]

Considering none of us has some type of developer kit for the 3ds, it's kind of hard to say. However, notice that a good number of 3ds games are using it where on other consoles it is not as popular which suggest there is something built into the 3ds firmware that allows this to be done easily.
How would it suggest that? Not every game on the 3DS does this, and we can conclude that it's not a requirement that game developers make the saves permanent based on that evidence.


Because the games are from different developers and I doubt they all gathered around making their games and made a joke about not being able to save. It sounds like it's something that can easily be done when developing a game.

Well that's great and all but now you're actually detaching from your "new features built into the 3DS" theory, thus also making this post invalid, as you're now contradicting yourself by saying it's on the developers make the saves permanent rather than a "new feature in the 3DS" making it happen.

QUOTE(Zetta_x @ Jul 5 2011, 06:59 PM) QUOTE(Necron N.N @ Jul 5 2011, 11:51 PM)

But you have a wrong basis. You're supposing that the flashcard is going to be made with the same format as we have now. To be a functional flashcard, it would need to function like a retail cart, so the save system should be the same.

Oh no, I know that if a flashcard is ever going to be made it's going to have to act as if it was a retail game. If it were not, Nintendo would have no problem blocking it.

Y'know, like the with the DS, and we weren't able to bypass tha- oh wait.

Lmao... I'm glad we agree. I don't know if you misread my sentence lols

I think you misread mine, I'm not agreeing with you but just the opposite.

 

[Giga_Gaia]

Devs always want more money and it shows with the ridiculously high prices for games. I mean, ds/psp/3ds games shouldn't be 39-49$ and ps3/360/wii shouldn't be 59$-69$.

They'd still make profits if they shaved 10-20$ on those prices, but no, they're a bunch of greedy ****.

They probably use piracy as an excuse, but what is causing piracy is their increase in the prices because they're greedy.

Also, I'm in canada and not europe, but seriously, I look at the price in europe and it's worse then north america. Why the **** should they have to pay more then us?

Developers are retarded and they don't do anything by logic.

 

[FluffyLunamoth]

Devs always want more money and it shows with the ridiculously high prices for games. I mean, ds/psp/3ds games shouldn't be 39-49$ and ps3/360/wii shouldn't be 59$-69$.

They'd still make profits if they shaved 10-20$ on those prices, but no, they're a bunch of greedy ****.

They probably use piracy as an excuse, but what is causing piracy is their increase in the prices because they're greedy.

Also, I'm in canada and not europe, but seriously, I look at the price in europe and it's worse then north america. Why the **** should they have to pay more then us?

Developers are retarded and they don't do anything by logic.

This is my reason for buying used. Very few games are coming out that are worth the retail price. That retail price is not what I'm willing to pay. It is not worth the game, the content, nor the time it will take to beat it. Thus I will wait until it, like EVERYTHING ELSE IN CURRENT EXISTANCE, either drops in price or I can find used for a lower price, that is closer to what it's worth. It is hard to afford games when they are constantly raising the pricetag for no reason at all, with a world economy that is STILL in the shithole. Lower the prices, and maybe I'll be more willing to support the games.

And you know the irony about this? Not only did they get the money for the game already, they bitch about it EVEN AFTER THEY BREAK MILLIONS, EVEN BILLIONS OF $$$ MADE. Sorry, until they stop being greedy, I won't support them fully.

 

[Fishaman P]

Capcom has issued a statement that they have learnt from their mistakes and will probably not feature this type of system in the future.
QUOTE(Another World @ Jul 5 2011, 02:57 AM) Perhaps it is time to let these developers know that consumers want the options of rentals, trade-ins, and resale.

FAIL

 

[darkangel5000]

I have to disagree here.
Those games don't have any limitation, they just keep some data memorized, like hiscores, unlocked items and maybe profiles, but you are not inhibited from play it trough again. Pretty much like a used car, there is a thing called " mileage " which shows how many miles your car has been driven in a lifespan, and can't be officially reset or modified, that would be illegal, because often times the price of a car is based on the mileage, but you are still able to drive it.
Plus , a used car is bound to get broken soon or later, and the user will spend a lot of money buying replacement parts that often times are only available from the official resellers. In other words, car makers make a shitload of money off a car lifespan just buy making and selling replacement parts, therefore used or new, they still make quite a profit.
The same goes for a lot of used stuff, being used , somehow diminishes the value of things.
So why do we expect games to be any different ? Pretending we got something new when it's not....
If you like new, buy new !

Besides, a big fuss is being made by people about not being able to start over.........OF COURSE you can, the game just won't reset the hiscores !
People like to get agitated over nothing..........

Ah! Then I got something wrong from the very beginning. Thanks to various topics on this permanent savegame-stuff I somehow thought, that you're only able to play the missions alone. But if it's just the high scores, that can't be reset, then I can't understand the fuzz about it. Seriously.

Also, may I excuse myself for using such a bad analogy? I'm really sorry about it then. ._.

 

[Giga_Gaia]

Devs always want more money and it shows with the ridiculously high prices for games. I mean, ds/psp/3ds games shouldn't be 39-49$ and ps3/360/wii shouldn't be 59$-69$.

They'd still make profits if they shaved 10-20$ on those prices, but no, they're a bunch of greedy ****.

They probably use piracy as an excuse, but what is causing piracy is their increase in the prices because they're greedy.

Also, I'm in canada and not europe, but seriously, I look at the price in europe and it's worse then north america. Why the **** should they have to pay more then us?

Developers are retarded and they don't do anything by logic.

This is my reason for buying used. Very few games are coming out that are worth the retail price. That retail price is not what I'm willing to pay. It is not worth the game, the content, nor the time it will take to beat it. Thus I will wait until it, like EVERYTHING ELSE IN CURRENT EXISTANCE, either drops in price or I can find used for a lower price, that is closer to what it's worth. It is hard to afford games when they are constantly raising the pricetag for no reason at all, with a world economy that is STILL in the shithole. Lower the prices, and maybe I'll be more willing to support the games.

And you know the irony about this? Not only did they get the money for the game already, they bitch about it EVEN AFTER THEY BREAK MILLIONS, EVEN BILLIONS OF $$$ MADE. Sorry, until they stop being greedy, I won't support them fully.

The problem is that games these days are way too short to be worth that price. I love jRPG and I remember on snes and ps1 era, they could last you 40 or more hours. Now, there is basically almost no jRPG that last above 15-20 hours. The only way to get 40 hours is to go for platinum trophy or 1000/1000 achievements.

FPS are way too short as well and can almost all be beaten in less than 10 hours. The online portion of them is lame and is filled with kids who are too young to even play the games. Not only that, those kids are so annoying, I'd probably hunt them and murder them if that was legal.

Also, to fully enjoy an online game, you need a mic these. For the love of god, I don't want to talk to another person that I don't even know. In fact, not only I don't want to talk to them, they are nothing to me, I just want to play the game. I actually treat those other players like bots anyway, not worth interacting with, which is why I immediatly mute anyone with a mic when I play.

 

[rastsan]

I am translating 2 nds games that have that specific option actually built in...
Did someone in planning really not think about this, or is it nintendo themselves fault as they are the ones that let it get out that way... I am curious if this really an issue for those specific developers or if this is nintendo's fault?
as this lessons nintendo's image that the latest update doesn't have a fix for this and just maybe could have...

 

[Haloman800]

This is absolutely retarded, how could they possibly think this would benefit gameplay in any way?

 

[Evo.lve]

Spinal brings up really good points, also, I think this may combat flash cards if there is every one in the future for 3DS. Something tells me this would screw up how saves load on a flash card.

Why would that screw up the way save files work on flashcards?

It wouldn't. Nothing would change on the flashcart said as the saves would still be on the flashcart, and thus we have access to the files in ways we don't on commercial carts (i.e. deleting the save via a computer or the flashcart itself)

Ok, tell me what they do different to these saves vs saves that can be deleted. Do they take away the option in game, do they use a new 3ds feature? If it is a 3ds feature (and by the sounds of it with multiple 3ds games it is), it may modify the way saves work and it may interfere with how saves are processed with flashcarts. So tell me exactly how these saves are locked down.

It's not a new feature, and there's nothing that expressly prohibits you from making a new save - they just have no "New Game" button. If you blank the save or corrupt it it will ask you to start a new save.

"ZOMG THEY TOOK A BUTTON OUT OF THE MENU OMG OMG OMG THEY'VE CHANGED THE WAY THE WHOLE SYSTEM WORKS OMG OMG OMG HACKING IS IMPOSSIBLE NOW OMGOMGOMG!!!111ONEONEONE"

...yeah... no...

 

[DJ91990]

WHAT exactly is not erasable in Blazblue CS II? I could have sworn that I saw a "Delete Save Data" option under the Options menu!