Hardware Official 3DS Technical Discussion

[TripleSMoon]

I never said 3DS was less powerful than PSP.
It's indeed more powerful, but not that much, that's why I say they have similar graphics.

Although 3DS is more powerful in some specs than Gamecube,
it's games looks worse than in GC.

Aside from the jaggies in the 3DS version, I honestly think it looks better than the GCN version... it seems a bit more detailed, and the colors are more vibrant. But that's just me.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

Spoiler

If you want exact sized screenshots the look at those:

Mario Kart 7:

Mario Kart Double Dash:

Monster Hunter 4(3DS)

Monster Hunter Freedom United(PSP)

Needless to say Gamecube's Mario Kart look much better

I never said 3DS was less powerful than PSP.
It's indeed more powerful, but not that much, that's why I say they have similar graphics.

Although 3DS is more powerful in some specs than Gamecube,
it's games looks worse than in GC.

Once again, those screenshots are flawed. Monster Hunter 4 is still early in development and the Mario Kart 7 screenshot is from E3 2010.

I have already proved that the 3DS is significantly more powerful than the PSP. It takes a large amount of processing grunt over the PSP to render Tri G twice with 3D, then again with 60FPS (and anti-aliasing if you turn off 3D).

Freedom Unite looks much worse than Monster Hunter: Tri G which I've already proven with the previous screenshots.

Monster Hunter: Tri G

Monster Hunter: Freedom Unite

You're cherry picking the worst 3DS games visually and ignoring all the games I've mentioned. Resident Evil: Revelations shows a large gap over the PSP. Monster Hunter: Tri G shows a large gap over the PSP. Heck, even Super Mario 3D Land does.

[media]http://www.youtube.c...sX0NFOo&#t=401s[/media]
(go to 6:41 for bump-mapping on the castle)

Super Mario 3D Land shows another large gap over the PSP featuring effects such as bump-mapping. It looks really good, too.

3D rendering 101, please?

Resolution plays a big part. Rendering a 320x240 image takes ONE FOURTH the power as rendering a 640x480 image. That's because there's only 25% as many pixels to render.

So it won't be uncommon to see newer handhelds with visuals as good as or better than some older consoles because they're rendering them at a much lower resolution, so they can do the same level of graphics while being weaker.

You're right with this but it isn't 320x240 (400x240 for top-screen). It actually renders at 800x240 because of 3D (1.6x more pixels for the Gamecube).

The bottom screen is 320x240, so considering both screens the 3ds actually renders 1120x480, almos the double of pixels of the gamecube o.O

 

[DiscostewSM]

The bottom screen is 320x240, so considering both screens the 3ds actually renders 1120x480, almos the double of pixels of the gamecube o.O

(800x240 + 320x240) != 1120x480
(800x240 + 320x240) = 1120x240

In pixels -> 1120x240 = 560x480
No as many pixels as the Gamecube's 640x480

Besides, the GPU isn't necessarily being used on the bottom screen, as that can be handled by simpler 2D hardware such as that used in the DS and GBA.

 

[Snailface]

The bottom screen is 320x240, so considering both screens the 3ds actually renders 1120x480, almos the double of pixels of the gamecube o.O

MathFail Alert!

Gamecube: 640*480 = 307200 pix
or even 640*576=368640 pix


3DS: 240*320 +240*800 = 268800 pix

 

[Eerpow]

The bottom screen is 320x240, so considering both screens the 3ds actually renders 1120x480, almos the double of pixels of the gamecube o.O

The bottom screen doesn't render any in game polygonal objects, it doesn't count.
The amount's of polygons the 3DS can output are on gamecube level but when you throw in lightning, shaders and special features like bump mapping the 3DS is far superior.

I'll throw in some RE:R footage since it's one of the best looking games for the system.

Off screen footage sucks btw, too bad I couldn't find any footage that do this game justice.
Second video is the best quality I could find:

Spoiler

skip to 4:40 for a more enemy crowded area.


Skip to 1:00 to skip the cut scene

This is just using one of the two cores available, even with 4xAA and online multiplayer.
The second core was locked for multitasking apps like: Browser, Cameras, Gamenotes, Online Friends Activity etc. However newer games are able to take advantage of both cores by disabling multitask features. Square Enix confirmed this some time ago.

Also given the time developers spent tinkering around with the devkit second gen 3DS games should look much nicer than current ones.

 

[EZ-Megaman]

Edited the post I made on the NSMB2 topic once I found out that the argument regarding specs was moved here.

Nintendo always focused on hardware power and they always aimed at the best graphics EXCEPT for last generation. Why? Because they could not afford it after the Gamecube and Nintendo 64 fiascos that spelled losses to the company.

I think I should just drop this here for those curious about how Nintendo designs their systems.

 

[Foxi4]

Edited the post I made on the NSMB2 topic once I found out that the argument regarding specs was moved here.

Nintendo always focused on hardware power and they always aimed at the best graphics EXCEPT for last generation. Why? Because they could not afford it after the Gamecube and Nintendo 64 fiascos that spelled losses to the company.

I think I should just drop this here for those curious about how Nintendo designs their systems.

Ah yes, pull out the Game & Watch games which were basically a quick pass-time game rather than a proper console. But yeah, you're right - they took something everybody knew and changed it into something special. China and the U.S.S.R quickly followed suit with their own designs based on the same idea. Hehe, fun.

That said, remember that at the same time Nintendo was also into the "proper" consoles business. You're still not "nullifying" my point entirely - many companies release low-end products side-by-side with high-end ones. They were actively selling Colour TV Game and already working on the NES at the time of Game & Watch's release.

 

[EZ-Megaman]

You're still not "nullifying" my point entirely - many companies release low-end products side-by-side with high-end ones. They were actively selling Colour TV Game and already working on the NES at the time of Game & Watch's release.

Yup. I could recall Nintendo trying to use specs as selling points for some of their products. For instance, the Virtual Boy adverts talked about how its graphics were good, and graphics were pretty much the main thing that makes Donkey Kong Country unique. I would say that they've been leaning on Gunpei's logic more overall, though.

 

[VMM]

Once again, those screenshots are flawed. Monster Hunter 4 is still early in development and the Mario Kart 7 screenshot is from E3 2010.

I would hardly call a E3 image flawed.
Or a sucessor.

I guess you should reconsider the definition of flawed

Freedom Unite looks much worse than Monster Hunter: Tri G which I've already proven with the previous screenshots.

Monster Hunter: Tri G

Monster Hunter: Freedom Unite

Proved?! hahahaha
Don't make me laugh
You posted a bad quality video and "screenshots" flawed and tendencious

Monster Hunter tri G(3DS)

Monster Hunter Freedom 2(PSP)

I don't see this "large gap over the PSP",
to say the truth, IMO, PSP' s screenshot looks better

You're cherry picking the worst 3DS games visually and ignoring all the games I've mentioned. Resident Evil: Revelations shows a large gap over the PSP. Monster Hunter: Tri G shows a large gap over the PSP. Heck, even Super Mario 3D Land does.

[media]http://www.youtube.c...sX0NFOo&#t=401s[/media]
(go to 6:41 for bump-mapping on the castle)

Super Mario 3D Land shows another large gap over the PSP featuring effects such as bump-mapping. It looks really good, too.

No, I'm not.
You're the one picking the top graphical 3DS games and trying to make them as a standart they're not

You're right with this but it isn't 320x240 (400x240 for top-screen). It actually renders at 800x240 because of 3D (1.6x more pixels for the Gamecube).

I guess you didn't study math well enough
800x240 = 192,000
640x480 = 307,200

 

[chris888222]

Once again, those screenshots are flawed. Monster Hunter 4 is still early in development and the Mario Kart 7 screenshot is from E3 2010.

I would hardly call a E3 image flawed.
Or a sucessor.

I guess you should reconsider the definition of flawed

Freedom Unite looks much worse than Monster Hunter: Tri G which I've already proven with the previous screenshots.

Monster Hunter: Tri G

Monster Hunter: Freedom Unite

Proved?! hahahaha
Don't make me laugh
You posted a bad quality video and "screenshots" flawed and tendencious

Monster Hunter tri G(3DS)

Monster Hunter Freedom 2(PSP)

I don't see this "large gap over the PSP",
to say the truth, IMO, PSP' s screenshot looks better

You're cherry picking the worst 3DS games visually and ignoring all the games I've mentioned. Resident Evil: Revelations shows a large gap over the PSP. Monster Hunter: Tri G shows a large gap over the PSP. Heck, even Super Mario 3D Land does.

[media]http://www.youtube.c...sX0NFOo&#t=401s[/media]
(go to 6:41 for bump-mapping on the castle)

Super Mario 3D Land shows another large gap over the PSP featuring effects such as bump-mapping. It looks really good, too.

No, I'm not.
You're the one picking the top graphical 3DS games and trying to make them as a standart they're not

You're right with this but it isn't 320x240 (400x240 for top-screen). It actually renders at 800x240 because of 3D (1.6x more pixels for the Gamecube).

I guess you didn't study math well enough
800x240 = 192,000
640x480 = 307,200

I agree on the math parts and have absolutely nothing to say about the MH, but you have to take into account that E3 vids/premieres are all unfinished and are usually not as good in terms of quality. It's like in a beta phase of a product.

 

[qlum]

Once again, those screenshots are flawed. Monster Hunter 4 is still early in development and the Mario Kart 7 screenshot is from E3 2010.

I would hardly call a E3 image flawed.
Or a sucessor.

I guess you should reconsider the definition of flawed

Freedom Unite looks much worse than Monster Hunter: Tri G which I've already proven with the previous screenshots.

Monster Hunter: Tri G

Monster Hunter: Freedom Unite

Proved?! hahahaha
Don't make me laugh
You posted a bad quality video and "screenshots" flawed and tendencious

Monster Hunter tri G(3DS)

Monster Hunter Freedom 2(PSP)

I don't see this "large gap over the PSP",
to say the truth, IMO, PSP' s screenshot looks better

You're cherry picking the worst 3DS games visually and ignoring all the games I've mentioned. Resident Evil: Revelations shows a large gap over the PSP. Monster Hunter: Tri G shows a large gap over the PSP. Heck, even Super Mario 3D Land does.

[media]http://www.youtube.c...sX0NFOo&#t=401s[/media]
(go to 6:41 for bump-mapping on the castle)

Super Mario 3D Land shows another large gap over the PSP featuring effects such as bump-mapping. It looks really good, too.

No, I'm not.
You're the one picking the top graphical 3DS games and trying to make them as a standart they're not

You're right with this but it isn't 320x240 (400x240 for top-screen). It actually renders at 800x240 because of 3D (1.6x more pixels for the Gamecube).

I guess you didn't study math well enough
800x240 = 192,000
640x480 = 307,200

actually the ress of gamecube= 640×576 max for the pal version which is 368,640 pixels

 

[Deleted_171835]

I would hardly call a E3 image flawed.
Or a sucessor.

I guess you should reconsider the definition of flawed

No shit, an image from E3 2010 doesn't count. The game came out more than a year after, that was an old build.

Spoiler: snip

Proved?! hahahaha
Don't make me laugh
You posted a bad quality video and "screenshots" flawed and tendencious

Monster Hunter tri G(3DS)

Spoiler

Monster Hunter Freedom 2(PSP)

Spoiler

I don't see this "large gap over the PSP",
to say the truth, IMO, PSP' s screenshot looks better

You know, looking for the worst blurry screenshots you can find don't prove your point. An upclose view of the character model also doesn't.

I posted a multitude of pics for Tri G and a couple for Freedom Unite to show the difference and unsurprisingly, Tri G has better visuals (more polygons, effects, better textures). I don't know why you're continuing on your one-man crusade when it should be clear as day to anyone.

Do you want an easily recognizable improvement? Look at the ground in both games. Improved texture quality thanks to more RAM.

Tri G:

Freedom Unite:

No, I'm not.
You're the one picking the top graphical 3DS games and trying to make them as a standart they're not

No shit, I'm picking the best looking games to prove my point. The entire argument is that the 3DS is significantly more powerful than the PSP which I have proven with the games I've shown featuring advanced effects, better textures and overall better visuals.


You know that Super Mario 3D Land video that you ignored, look at the castle at 6:41. That features bump-mapping.



Now look at other examples of advanced effects used by the 3DS,

That's HDR being used in Revelations.

Motion Blur.

Self-shadowing and surface shaders.

None of that is possible on the PSP. Some 3DS games also feature anti-aliasing.

I guess you didn't study math well enough
800x240 = 192,000
640x480 = 307,200

Read my post again. I said that the Gamecube has 1.6x more pixels.

 

[klim28]

From a person who played 1k+++ hrs of Monster Hunter on the PSP and almost 500hrs of Monster Hunter on the 3DS. 3DS has much better better better better graphics than the PSP ones. Trust me Because I'm seeing them both almost everyday. I guess thats a better proof than screenshots and videos posted here. Seeing for yourself is believing.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

Edited the post I made on the NSMB2 topic once I found out that the argument regarding specs was moved here.

Nintendo always focused on hardware power and they always aimed at the best graphics EXCEPT for last generation. Why? Because they could not afford it after the Gamecube and Nintendo 64 fiascos that spelled losses to the company.

I think I should just drop this here for those curious about how Nintendo designs their systems.

It's funny that the man who made this filosofy was fired by Nintendo and hired by Sony later. But I think this filosofy was more used in the handheld desings, the gameboy line was always weaker in power than its competitor but it had a reason, power saving, portability. But does Nintendo really uses this philosofy nowadays:

2005 - DS is launched with dual screen, one of them is a touch screen
2006 - Wii is launched with motion controllers
2011 - 3DS is launched with a 3D screen
2012 - Wii U will be launched with a tablet controller

In 2005/2006 touch screen and motion controllers were pretty uncommon = cutting edge technology
Built-in 3D screen for affordable price = super cutting edge technolgy, I think the most uncommon and it's really expensive to have a 3d device unless it's the 3ds
Tablet controller = pretty innovative cutting edge technology

 

[RodrigoDavy]

My point is the Yokoi's philosofy is to use old and cheap technology in new ways to make a good product, but nintendo is using new technology and sometimes developing its own in its product, therefore it doesn't use Yokoi's philosofy anymore.

 

[TripleSMoon]

that the man who made this filosofy was fired by Nintendo and hired by Sony later.

Yokoi was neither fired by Nintendo, nor hired by Sony... Did you even READ the full article besides the philosophy part?

 

[EZ-Megaman]

It's funny that the man who made this filosofy was fired by Nintendo and hired by Sony later.

He wasn't fired by Nintendo or hired by Sony. He retired in 1996, a year after the Virtual Boy was released. Sadly, he died in 1997.
Nintendo still uses his philosophy with their more recent consoles. For example, the GPU in the 3DS is around four years old. The way Nintendo's trying to be creative with this old technology on the 3DS is by adding 3D.
The Wii also used similar hardware to the Gamecube (which was 5 years old at that time) and they tried to be creative with that by adding motion controls.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

that the man who made this filosofy was fired by Nintendo and hired by Sony later.

Yokoi was neither fired by Nintendo, nor hired by Sony... Did you even READ the full article besides the philosophy part?

I read the part of the article abot the philosophy, but not the part about his life. The version I knew is that he made the Virtual boy and was fired due to the failure it was and was hired by Sony and died shortly after

 

[EZ-Megaman]

that the man who made this filosofy was fired by Nintendo and hired by Sony later.

Yokoi was neither fired by Nintendo, nor hired by Sony... Did you even READ the full article besides the philosophy part?

I read the part of the article abot the philosophy, but not the part about his life. The version I knew is that he made the Virtual boy and was fired due to the failure it was and was hired by Sony and died shortly after

Ah, I remember reading about different theories regarding this. It was confirmed by Nintendo that he left four years later than he originally planned. It was just a coincidence that the Virtual Boy failed that year. The company that he joined was Bandai, where he designed the WonderSwan.
Quotes from the article that prove this are (without the quotation marks):
"Yokoi had originally decided to retire at 50 to do as he pleased. His retirement had simply been a bit later than planned"
"Leaving with several of his subordinates to form a new company called Koto, Yokoi led the development of the Bandai WonderSwan handheld gaming machine."

Anyway, I guess we shuld stop detailing the topic at hand.
Does RE Revelations use any part of the 3DS' second ccre? If it doesn't, then the 3DS should be able to render graphics that are twice as good, in theory.

 

[Eerpow]

Anyway, I guess we shuld stop detailing the topic at hand.
Does RE Revelations use any part of the 3DS' second ccre? If it doesn't, then the 3DS should be able to render graphics that are twice as good, in theory.

No it doesn't since it's something devs just recently could take advantage of according to Square Enix.
And still it manages to have 4xAA at 60fps with online multiplayer.

It probably wouldn't look twice as good but there would definitely be some added geometry.

BTW some 3DS uses either 2x or 4x AA, and it's not limited to 2D as there are games out for the system that uses AA with 3D on.