Nintendo hates gaming

[Wintrale]

Well surely they wouldn't implement this on say puzzle games, as thats just like giving you the answer from the beggining so you wouldn't see it in a game like Braid ... surely.

One thing to realise is that it won't work for many games, anyway. How can Demo Play help you in an RPG, for example? It won't use your save or anything, so it'll merely show you how you could beat it at the optimum level with the optimum equipment and stuff. So it won't show you how to beat it at all, merely how you COULD beat it if your team were the same as the one in Demo Play. If that wasn't enough, FPS games won't work. You can't Demo Play reaction- and skill-based games. It's simply for linear games, like Silent Hill and Alone in the Dark, to show casual gamers how to progress.

QUOTE(i.Domination @ Jun 20 2009, 01:53 PM) Game: Can't play, its like a movie

Digest: Whats the point, might as well just use Game

Scene: Sounds better, but I'm sure their "specific areas of difficulty" wouldn't be anything worth trying, so might as well use Game.

I might as well go find a youtube walkthrough video or something if this becomes extensive use, since they would probably make some really hard areas to justify this function to fans.

Well, they all have their uses so I can see why they're there. I'd say the Game Mode is the most redundant of all - since the other two target specific areas of difficulty, one letting you try it yourself after watching the computer beat the section you're stuck on with the latter merely showing you how it's done. How many games have video walkthroughs? Is this any different?

 

[jan777]

I might as well go find a youtube walkthrough video or something if this becomes extensive use, since they would probably make some really hard areas to justify this function to fans

there's a point there

play game, get stuck, fire up your pc, search youtube, wait for the clip to load, watch it, play the game again, get stuck again, watch walkthrough again, play game again again

why not just watch the demo and save some time
----------
and you could probavly disable it for all your hardcore needs

 

[antwill]

I don't see how it'd be implemented into Alone in the Dark when the feature to pretty much just skip the entire scene is already there. They probably wouldn't bother with that. But yeah there'd be quite a lot of games it wouldn't work in. I still don't think it's that great of an idea though, rather than giving them the answers they should just stick to hints that will nudge them in the right direction and at least challenge them a little to work it out.

 

[Wintrale]

I don't see how it'd be implemented into Alone in the Dark when the feature to pretty much just skip the entire scene is already there. They probably wouldn't bother with that. But yeah there'd be quite a lot of games it wouldn't work in. I still don't think it's that great of an idea though, rather than giving them the answers they should just stick to hints that will nudge them in the right direction and at least challenge them a little to work it out.

And risk them losing patience? Nintendo want to get them interested in these games without making them easier, so merely implementing hints all over the place will more than likely just end up making the majority of casual gamers give up entirely. If they're shown how to do something instead of only hinted, they'll be more inclined to actually complete the game. Just consider the skill growth they would incur with this thing, basically teaching them how to play real videogames through example.

 

[CockroachMan]

To be honest, I don't mind it at all....It's like cheats in games....Some people use it some don't, I never cheat, because it ruins the game for me, so would this, so I'm not going to use it, however, I don't mind having the option if there really is a situation that might require it..

I literally don't have any feelings toward it, it surely won't ruin the game for me, but it won't make it better either..

Doesn't the fact that Narin will be rendered redundant make you sad Toni?

Because it makes me sad.

Very sad indeed.

Narin won't be redundant.. cheats are not just to make the game easier.. they exist to make the game more fun! Demo mode doesn't substitute big head mode, infinite ammo, god mode and stuff like that..

 

[PettingZoo]

Seems a bit like cheating. Though if this truly is going to be implemented into new games, there should be a system which implements a cheating status/lower score on completed levels using this technique or maybe only allowed on "Easy" modes of games. IMHO I don't really like this idea as if a played gets stuck in the game, what is the whole point of that problem created in the game. No one should need this, if all else fails, consult the internet.

As I said, it's there to ease casual gamers into core games. Show them how we complete levels, so that they can then learn how to play games like we do. Any core gamer that uses this Demo Play should be ashamed of themselves. As for consulting the internet, I'd imagine it's pretty overwhelming for a 40 year old guy who hasn't touched videogames for almost 20 years to sign up to forums and embarrass himself by posting about how he's stuck and needs help. If I had the choice between asking complete strangers for help and being given an option that would provide it automatically, I'd definitely choose the latter in their shoes.

Any self-professed core gamer who uses Demo Play should be ashamed of themselves for being so weak. But then again, they'd be the type who cheats and hacks their games so it's not surprising.


It shouldn't matter jack shit about casual gamers or not, if a casual gamer wants to get into hardcore games then they should find out the answer by doing it themselves. It is not overwhelming for anyone regardless of their age to sign up to a forum and ask questions, and even if they don't want to do that they can browse through Gamefaqs, Youtube and various other sources. If a casual gamer wants to use this "Demo Play" to become a hardcore gamer, that is not the right way to go. Anyone who uses "Demo Play" to accomplish tasks should be ashamed of themselves, casual gamer or not.

In the end if a casual gamer uses this, there are pretty high chances of them to simply beat the entire game, thus gaining hardly no skill and rendering the games purpose useless.

QUOTE(Wintrale @ Jun 20 2009, 11:08 PM)

And risk them losing patience? Nintendo want to get them interested in these games without making them easier, so merely implementing hints all over the place will more than likely just end up making the majority of casual gamers give up entirely. If they're shown how to do something instead of only hinted, they'll be more inclined to actually complete the game. Just consider the skill growth they would incur with this thing, basically teaching them how to play real videogames through example.

If people lose patience of a game then it's their own fault, they will eventually come back to playing the game because they have already bought it. If a casual gamer want's help they can use the internet, if they didn't pay attention to a tutorial at the start of the game which most games have these days or read the game booklet, then it is their own damn fault. There are so many resources for help and walkthroughs on games, this functionality seriously in my honest opinion is a big waste of space.

 

[CockroachMan]

It shouldn't matter jack shit about casual gamers or not, if a casual gamer wants to get into hardcore games then they should find out the answer by doing it themselves. It is not overwhelming for anyone regardless of their age to sign up to a forum and ask questions, and even if they don't want to do that they can browse through Gamefaqs, Youtube and various other sources. If a casual gamer wants to use this "Demo Play" to become a hardcore gamer, that is not the right way to go. Anyone who uses "Demo Play" to accomplish tasks should be ashamed of themselves, casual gamer or not.


What's the difference in letting the game give you the answer or looking it on gamefaqs or youtube? So, everyone that looked for an answer on gamefaqs should be ashamed? I really can't see much difference here, they're just bundling a Walktrough with the game!

Like said before, Nintendo is trying to reach a new market, a new market with people that have no idea what Gamefaqs is, and never participated in forums.

QUOTEIn the end if a casual gamer uses this, there are pretty high chances of them to simply beat the entire game, thus gaining hardly no skill and rendering the games purpose useless.

Gaining skill is not the only purpose of game.. in fact, with the exception of multiplayer games.. I never played anything to get more skillful. Some games have the purpose to tell you a story, those games would only benefit from that. It really sucks when you want to know the end of the story, but simply can't beat a level.

 

[jalaneme]

gone were the days of super mario bros on the nes and when gaming was cool, now we don't have to use the control pad, a computer does it for you, most games today are interactive movies anyway, this is just the beginning.

 

[p1ngpong]

Seems a bit like cheating. Though if this truly is going to be implemented into new games, there should be a system which implements a cheating status/lower score on completed levels using this technique or maybe only allowed on "Easy" modes of games. IMHO I don't really like this idea as if a played gets stuck in the game, what is the whole point of that problem created in the game. No one should need this, if all else fails, consult the internet.

As I said, it's there to ease casual gamers into core games. Show them how we complete levels, so that they can then learn how to play games like we do. Any core gamer that uses this Demo Play should be ashamed of themselves. As for consulting the internet, I'd imagine it's pretty overwhelming for a 40 year old guy who hasn't touched videogames for almost 20 years to sign up to forums and embarrass himself by posting about how he's stuck and needs help. If I had the choice between asking complete strangers for help and being given an option that would provide it automatically, I'd definitely choose the latter in their shoes.

Any self-professed core gamer who uses Demo Play should be ashamed of themselves for being so weak. But then again, they'd be the type who cheats and hacks their games so it's not surprising.


It shouldn't matter jack shit about casual gamers or not, if a casual gamer wants to get into hardcore games then they should find out the answer by doing it themselves. It is not overwhelming for anyone regardless of their age to sign up to a forum and ask questions, and even if they don't want to do that they can browse through Gamefaqs, Youtube and various other sources. If a casual gamer wants to use this "Demo Play" to become a hardcore gamer, that is not the right way to go. Anyone who uses "Demo Play" to accomplish tasks should be ashamed of themselves, casual gamer or not.

In the end if a casual gamer uses this, there are pretty high chances of them to simply beat the entire game, thus gaining hardly no skill and rendering the games purpose useless.

Yeah fair enough its not as bad as I first thought, but at the same time having walkthroughs on tap with the game isn't going to turn people in better gamers at all like zoo said. I might have expected this from someone like EA or whoever, but Nintendo? Its sickening, whats the point in making a game and then including an option to remove all challenge and discovery from it? It just shows the direction Nintendo are heading in these days really.

I mean could you imagine a Zelda or Metroid or similar game with this built in?

ITS HERESY I TELLS YA!!!

QUOTE(CockroachMan @ Jun 20 2009, 02:12 PM)

Narin won't be redundant.. cheats are not just to make the game easier.. they exist to make the game more fun! Demo mode doesn't substitute big head mode, infinite ammo, god mode and stuff like that..

Now I happy again!

 

[antwill]

It shouldn't matter jack shit about casual gamers or not, if a casual gamer wants to get into hardcore games then they should find out the answer by doing it themselves. It is not overwhelming for anyone regardless of their age ... Anyone who uses "Demo Play" to accomplish tasks should be ashamed of themselves, casual gamer or not.

There are so many resources for help and walkthroughs on games, this functionality seriously in my honest opinion is a big waste of space.

I have to agree with you there, none of us had this crap back in the day and look how we turned out, i'm pretty sure its safe to say most of us were either casual gamers turned hardcore gamer or just a casual gamer and we all managed. If anything video gamers lately have been getting spoilt, everything hand fed to them and then always expecting more to make the game easier.

 

[frantier123]

I dun see why Nintendo "hates gaming" with this. Just because they help you to complete a level if you can't complete it dosen't mean they hate you to play game. You still can continue the difficulty stage should you find that you are getting "pro". Besides, Nintendo didn't say that you MUST use the demo play, so you still can play your Mario without this demo play idea.

I, however, finds this demo play interesting. I think this can be an alternative to pause the game, just in case you need to have your dinner or something, then you can sit infront of your television, watching your mario or whatever jumping around while enjoying your food, the continue the stage after your dinner

 

[PettingZoo]

It shouldn't matter jack shit about casual gamers or not, if a casual gamer wants to get into hardcore games then they should find out the answer by doing it themselves. It is not overwhelming for anyone regardless of their age to sign up to a forum and ask questions, and even if they don't want to do that they can browse through Gamefaqs, Youtube and various other sources. If a casual gamer wants to use this "Demo Play" to become a hardcore gamer, that is not the right way to go. Anyone who uses "Demo Play" to accomplish tasks should be ashamed of themselves, casual gamer or not.


What's the difference in letting the game give you the answer or looking it on gamefaqs or youtube? So, everyone that looked for an answer on gamefaqs should be ashamed? I really can't see much difference here, they're just bundling a Walktrough with the game!

Like said before, Nintendo is trying to reach a new market, a new market with people that have no idea what Gamefaqs is, and never participated in forums.

QUOTEIn the end if a casual gamer uses this, there are pretty high chances of them to simply beat the entire game, thus gaining hardly no skill and rendering the games purpose useless.

Gaining skill is not the only purpose of game.. in fact, with the exception of multiplayer games.. I never played anything to get more skillful. Some games have the purpose to tell you a story, those games would only benefit from that. It really sucks when you want to know the end of the story, but simply can't beat a level.

I'm pretty sure if a casual gamer doesn't know what Gamefaqs is, best chance they would simply Google how to do it and either Youtube or Gamefaqs would be the first to pop up. The shameful part is that it is already packaged with the game, using "Demo Play" in my understanding is you taking a shit upon the game designer who put as much effort as he/she could into a certain level's face and then rubbing it in.

 

[Wintrale]

It shouldn't matter jack shit about casual gamers or not, if a casual gamer wants to get into hardcore games then they should find out the answer by doing it themselves. It is not overwhelming for anyone regardless of their age to sign up to a forum and ask questions, and even if they don't want to do that they can browse through Gamefaqs, Youtube and various other sources. If a casual gamer wants to use this "Demo Play" to become a hardcore gamer, that is not the right way to go. Anyone who uses "Demo Play" to accomplish tasks should be ashamed of themselves, casual gamer or not.

In the end if a casual gamer uses this, there are pretty high chances of them to simply beat the entire game, thus gaining hardly no skill and rendering the games purpose useless.

If people lose patience of a game then it's their own fault, they will eventually come back to playing the game because they have already bought it. If a casual gamer want's help they can use the internet, if they didn't pay attention to a tutorial at the start of the game which most games have these days or read the game booklet, then it is their own damn fault. There are so many resources for help and walkthroughs on games, this functionality seriously in my honest opinion is a big waste of space.

I would reply fully, but what's the point? You think watching a video walkthrough on YouTube is acceptable while watching the same video, but played by one of the developers, on your Wii is heresy.

 

[Law]

Well surely they wouldn't implement this on say puzzle games, as thats just like giving you the answer from the beggining so you wouldn't see it in a game like Braid ... surely.

One thing to realise is that it won't work for many games, anyway. How can Demo Play help you in an RPG, for example? It won't use your save or anything, so it'll merely show you how you could beat it at the optimum level with the optimum equipment and stuff. So it won't show you how to beat it at all, merely how you COULD beat it if your team were the same as the one in Demo Play. If that wasn't enough, FPS games won't work. You can't Demo Play reaction- and skill-based games. It's simply for linear games, like Silent Hill and Alone in the Dark, to show casual gamers how to progress.

Don't use those games as examples, as I said on page 1, games like that have incredibly simplistic puzzles. Either square emblem in square hole, or for Alone in the Dark, broken sword blade and broken sword hilt on shield. Or key in door. Or push bookshelf in front of window.

If you need help beating those, you really shouldn't be playing videogames. They are some of the most simplistic survival horror games out there.


They might as well just put a "GameFAQs" button in every game, so when pressed it just launches the Wii's Web Browser and takes you to the appropriate page on GameFAQs.

Although I really couldn't care less about this system, the only way it could be implemented properly is if games actually started to become challenging.


Edit: Devs should cram levels full of secrets and power ups and shit that people wouldn't be able to find if all they used was Demo play. I'm guessing Demo Play will be a straight "from point A to point B" view of the level, whilst bypassing the junctions that take you to points C, D, E, F and possibly G, therefore missing out on the exploration factor and secrets. That's what it should be, anyway.

 

[Wintrale]

Don't use those games as examples, as I said on page 1, games like that have incredibly simplistic puzzles. Either square emblem in square hole, or for Alone in the Dark, broken sword blade and broken sword hilt on shield. Or key in door. Or push bookshelf in front of window.

If you need help beating those, you really shouldn't be playing videogames. They are some of the most simplistic survival horror games out there.


Although I really couldn't care less about this system, the only way it could be implemented properly is if games actually started to become challenging.

It was more using them as examples of linear games, than their puzzles. So it'd work in maybe something like Assassin's Creed (go here, hide there, wait for this opening, crawl through this, climb up that, wait for your target to pass under you, jump down and kill), but not something that has variables that would mean either your progress isn't on par with what you're being shown or that the enemies placements you see aren't necessarily the same you'll encounter when you play through it. The only purpose those would serve would be to show the casual gamer how to approach a certain boss if said boss has a weakness or a specific pattern that must be used to defeat them.

 

[Law]

Don't use those games as examples, as I said on page 1, games like that have incredibly simplistic puzzles. Either square emblem in square hole, or for Alone in the Dark, broken sword blade and broken sword hilt on shield. Or key in door. Or push bookshelf in front of window.

If you need help beating those, you really shouldn't be playing videogames. They are some of the most simplistic survival horror games out there.


Although I really couldn't care less about this system, the only way it could be implemented properly is if games actually started to become challenging.

The only purpose those would serve would be to show the casual gamer how to approach a certain boss if said boss has a weakness or a specific pattern that must be used to defeat them.

To find out a pattern, you dodge the bosses attacks for roughly five minutes or so until you get it down, if it has a specific weakness that weakness is usually hinted at, or you could just try a variety of weapons on them until you see one that seems to do slighly more damage than the other. But all a weakness does is allow you to kill a boss quickly, even without exploiting that weakness if you have the pattern down you shouldn't have any problems dodging his attacks, thereby not taking damage.

Take the boss fight at the end of MGS2 against those Metal Gear RAYs as an example, when they fire rockets all you have to do is keep running, when they fire the machine gun in the semi circle shape all you have to do is dodge over it. The only real problem is when having 2 firing rockets at you whilst you have to shoot one in the leg with a missile for its weak spot to open up, but even if you just shoot its head straight away without making it show it's weak point it will still do a significant amount of damage, and takes less time therefore you have more time in which to dodge the attacks.


I have nothing against this system, by the way. You're just using really poor examples. Wait for the actual creators to release some examples of what it can do before assuming what it's going to do.

 

[Wintrale]

To find out a pattern, you dodge the bosses attacks for roughly five minutes or so until you get it down, if it has a specific weakness that weakness is usually hinted at, or you could just try a variety of weapons on them until you see one that seems to do slighly more damage than the other. But all a weakness does is allow you to kill a boss quickly, even without exploiting that weakness if you have the pattern down you shouldn't have any problems dodging his attacks, thereby not taking damage.

Take the boss fight at the end of MGS2 against those Metal Gear RAYs as an example, when they fire rockets all you have to do is keep running, when they fire the machine gun in the semi circle shape all you have to do is dodge over it. The only real problem is when having 2 firing rockets at you whilst you have to shoot one in the leg with a missile for its weak spot to open up, but even if you just shoot its head straight away without making it show it's weak point it will still do a significant amount of damage, and takes less time therefore you have more time in which to dodge the attacks.

Er... Why are you explaining this to me...? Your entire post is basically trying to tell me something I've known for 15 years. I won't be using Demo Play, I have no need for it. I know why it's being implemented, I know what the purposes for it are. I'm explaining them, nothing more. I condone of this for no reason other than it will mean more core games for the Wii, none of which will lose any challenge since casual gamers are being given alternative methods to beat the levels we can beat normally.

I honestly don't get why everyone is acting like this is the end of the world. Would you rather Nintendo didn't bother trying to get casual gamers more interested in core games without having to sacrifice the challenge or depth of those games to make them more accessible? This isn't a feature we will use, so there's no reason for anyone to be so negative towards it. It isn't affecting your gaming in any way, outside of giving you more games of a higher difficulty to enjoy.

 

[Law]

To find out a pattern, you dodge the bosses attacks for roughly five minutes or so until you get it down, if it has a specific weakness that weakness is usually hinted at, or you could just try a variety of weapons on them until you see one that seems to do slighly more damage than the other. But all a weakness does is allow you to kill a boss quickly, even without exploiting that weakness if you have the pattern down you shouldn't have any problems dodging his attacks, thereby not taking damage.

Take the boss fight at the end of MGS2 against those Metal Gear RAYs as an example, when they fire rockets all you have to do is keep running, when they fire the machine gun in the semi circle shape all you have to do is dodge over it. The only real problem is when having 2 firing rockets at you whilst you have to shoot one in the leg with a missile for its weak spot to open up, but even if you just shoot its head straight away without making it show it's weak point it will still do a significant amount of damage, and takes less time therefore you have more time in which to dodge the attacks.

Er... Why are you explaining this to me...? Your entire post is basically trying to tell me something I've known for 15 years. I won't be using Demo Play, I have no need for it. I know why it's being implemented, I know what the purposes for it are. I'm explaining them, nothing more. I condone of this for no reason other than it will mean more core games for the Wii, none of which will lose any challenge since casual gamers are being given alternative methods to beat the levels we can beat normally.

I honestly don't get why everyone is acting like this is the end of the world. Would you rather Nintendo didn't bother trying to get casual gamers more interested in core games without having to sacrifice the challenge or depth of those games to make them more accessible? This isn't a feature we will use, so there's no reason for anyone to be so negative towards it. It isn't affecting your gaming in any way, outside of giving you more games of a higher difficulty to enjoy.

See my edit. And stop acting like a bag of dicks, because nobody cares.

The "casual gamer" shouldn't need it explaning to him, because a lot of these things is common sense, unless Nintendo is thinking of bringing out a "games for retards" line of games. The disc space it would probably take up could be used for better things. Like I said in the edit though, YOU do not know what the system is going to do, nobody knows for sure what it's going to do OR what it's going to be like, all I'm saying to YOU is to stop using shitty examples, I'm not explaining anything YOU might not already know, but things that a "casual" gamer should know.

 

[Master Mo]

Hmm, not a bad idea... Especially because they won`t force anybody to use it. So if someone really needs help he has the option to use something like this.

But if I need help with a game a think I stick to gamefaqs or use codes, which are rarely needed by me

 

[Wintrale]

See my edit. And stop acting like a bag of dicks, because nobody cares.

The "casual gamer" shouldn't need it explaning to him, because a lot of these things is common sense, unless Nintendo is thinking of bringing out a "games for retards" line of games. The disc space it would probably take up could be used for better things. Like I said in the edit though, YOU do not know what the system is going to do, nobody knows for sure what it's going to do OR what it's going to be like, all I'm saying to YOU is to stop using shitty examples, I'm not explaining anything YOU might not already know, but things that a "casual" gamer should know.

How am I acting like a bag of dicks? What am I actually doing wrong other than defending something because people are jumping on the hate bandwagon without even reading the patent properly, which outlines pretty much all the features of the software? If anything, you're the one acting like a bag of dicks, calling all my examples shitty when you only care about ripping into the software without actually considering what it offers. If my examples are so shitty, why don't you offer some better ones?

Why are you so against Nintendo promoting the development of more titles like MadWorld, The Conduit and Red Steel 2? That's all this does. All it does is tell developers "Make those great games and we'll add a bit of software to the titles that will make casual gamers interested in them". Where does it say that they're turning all their games into ones only retards can, or will, play? I can't believe I'm seeing this - people actually against the growth of the core market on the Wii. I'm honestly surprised. Really damn surprised.