New Abortion Law Wave

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by cots, May 20, 2019.

  1. zomborg

    zomborg Makin Temp great again

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    What makes abortion any different from any other form or birth control?
    Using a condom or birth control pill usually takes place before conception. Even though I do not classify them as superior or condone them, still they are used to prevent conception. Whereas, abortion on the other hand is used after conception to end life. One prevents the life process from ever starting while the other terminates the life process after it has begun. Those who do not value life apparently cannot grasp this concept. It's like you are blinded to the value of human life?

    Man is the dominant species on this planet and not without good reason.
    For instance, here in America we place high value on our pets. Many treat them as family members or even treat them better than family. Do you consider yourself to be more valuable than a pet dog, cat or hamster? Is your life more important than a wild squirrel you may chance to meet in the woods? If a choice came down to killing you who had committed no crime or a rabid wolf and that had been killing children in town and they chose to end your life, would you feel as though it was an unfair decision that they chose you over a wild wolf?
    Well here in America, even though we place our animals on such a high pedestal, most would value their life much more significantly over an animal. Especially when the human life in question is highly educated with many degrees.

    Man has dominion over this earth for many reasons. Not the least of which is he is the superior intellect. You've never seen nor are you likely to ever see a group of elephants sitting around debating over why they should value their unborn offsprings life because they are not capable. No other species on our world can ever be capable of establishing dominion except man.

    Humans are much more than just the sum of their parts. More than just a grouping of atoms. They are defined by more than just their ability to suffer/endure suffering.

    Life and the beginning of life is easy to determine for those who are willing to open their eyes. Some prefer to deny it and remain blind.
     
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  2. cracker

    cracker Nyah!

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  10. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Why should I adopt the point of conception (or possibly implantation) as a notable one for this ethical position? You say open your eyes and I would like to believe I have. I have read hundreds of philosophies from ancient times (what is a man being answered by a plucked chicken by Diogenes questioning Plato being a good example to begin with) to now and would like to believe I have a more than superficial understanding of the relevant biology. There is no consensus among those, much less an easy answer or answer without edge cases.

    The animal analogies are continuing to not do a lot for me as far as illustrating a broader point or highlighting a relevant one here.

    "birth control ... I do not classify them as superior or condone"
    Yet you seemingly promote abstinence. From a functional level it seems no different.

    "You've never seen nor are you likely to ever see a group of elephants sitting around debating over why they should value their unborn offsprings life"
    I hope to live to the point where species uplifting is a thing but OK. I have seen a hamster eat its young when it felt threatened though, and I have seen mating seasons delayed by drought or lack of food in other things.


    "Especially when the human life in question is highly educated with many degrees."
    So experiences and investment in a thing are valuable? What then does something that never experienced anything, or computed anything of note to themselves or the world at large have in that equation?
     
  11. TerribleTy27

    TerribleTy27 GBAtemp Regular

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    I'm against abortion and I wish it never happened, but I think the fallout from this law is going to be way worse then what these legislators are thinking.

    How did that phrase go . . .

    Safe, legal, and rare.

    That's the phrase all laws surrounding conception should be framed around.
     
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  12. Fates-Blade-900

    Fates-Blade-900 GBAtemp Regular

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    First, we all know the world is too messed up to just trust people, I know that, you know that, what people need to know is the criminals know that too, they can be very smart, It's the women's job to protect themselves from rapist's, and do their best to avoid being a victim, I don't think it's that hard to do honestly, if they are one, the baby should never have to suffer in those cases because it wasn't it's fault.

    Not so, in the Bible God wants to keep all the wicked alive so they can change, he doesn't want to destroy ANY of them (2 Peter 3:9 EXB), but he'll have to if the wicked continue to: be homosexuals, murder, steal, lie, .etc because he can't have any of that in his kingdom, the Bible is the truth.

    Truth is at the end of the day we'll all have different feelings about abortion, some'll be okay with it others won't , the real question is: is it right? And what's right in society is set based on the majority of people and how they feel (even though no one should have the authority to do that), and it's causing lots of problems, so it can't be the right to do it this way, everyone having different opinions on something this important is proof, the truth is, the only thing that can: find out what's right, can help fix any problem, and can unite everyone to do the right thing is God through his word The Holy Bible. <The Truth
     
    Last edited by Fates-Blade-900, May 21, 2019
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  13. Kunty

    Kunty Newbie

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    Sure Linda, the bible is the truth. Lmao.
    Stay pressed <3
     

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  14. cracker

    cracker Nyah!

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    It's the embryo's job to protect itself from being aborted. :rolleyes:
     
  15. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    That's a new twist on "like taking candy from a baby".
     
  16. zomborg

    zomborg Makin Temp great again

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    I guess what it comes down to is this. Those who value human life for which I firmly stand. I place a level of high importance on each and every human life. Even those unwanted by our society.
    Versus
    Those who feel human life has no more significant value than any other grouping of atoms on this earth. Apparently for which you and many others stand.
    I do not care if the scientific research says that it's not even considered alive until a certain point. I do not care what roe vs wade says. I stand for life and I fight for life and to me life starts the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg. From my perspective, from that moment on, it is murder if you abort.
    To me each and every human life is special and precious and has a purpose. A purpose he/she will not be able to achieve if wicked men and women have their way.
    I am thankful and proud of the Alabama decision to pass such a law and I truly hope many more such laws are passed.
    It is indeed an horrible day we live in when we find ourselves having to fight to protect the unborn from humankind. It is monstrous and evil. One would think over time we would have grown wiser but we have instead grown more foolish. It's like people have reverted back to a primitive mindset despite their higher education. It grieves me to call myself a member of a mankind as barbaric as we have become.
     
    Last edited by zomborg, May 21, 2019
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  17. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    That is a false characterisation of myself at least, and something I would wager a substantial sum on being the case for most of the others in this thread and the world at large.

    So that is a radically different position to that which the laws, philosophies of laws, ethics boards and many others contemplating the matter hold. You are free to adopt such a position but you have yet to elaborate on why I should adopt the same position, much less convince me of its merit, at which point much of the rest of your position would logically follow.
     
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  18. TerribleTy27

    TerribleTy27 GBAtemp Regular

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    Out of curiosity, when do you believe an embryo obtains the basic rights we normally ascribe to adults or kids? When does it cross the 'human' line?
     
  19. TerribleTy27

    TerribleTy27 GBAtemp Regular

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    This. This on so many levels. You can't just tell people to stop doing the monkey. For better or worse a lot of these kids are growing up in environments where doing the double Dutchman is encouraged. And deep-set cultural assumptions like that don't change overnight.
    Personally, I don't think it's my place to judge. If there ever come a time when there is 'substantial sex liberation', well, that's really none of my business, as long as the sperm never touches the egg. Go wild.
     
  20. Xzi

    Xzi A terrible fate fills you with determination

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    Let's be frank about this: abortion is a necessity created by an over-zealous capitalist system. If every pregnant woman was guaranteed the resources she needed to raise her child, the abortion rate would be at/near zero, except in cases of rape or incest. Forcing people who are already below the poverty line to be burdened with a child they can't afford and can't care for properly is just going to make things a lot worse. Basically: if Republicans really cared about lowering the abortion rate, they'd be implementing more social safety nets for mothers who need them. Making it illegal will only result in even more desperation, and back-alley abortions.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, May 22, 2019
  21. Undwiz

    Undwiz GBAtemp Regular

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    abortion should only be legal if you was raped or if you have health issues that could kill you(only if you found that out after that is)...... Sex is a choice that can come with having a baby. can get Aids from sex also... sure the hell can't abort that LOL.. The whole "My Body My Choice" thing is stupid. the moment you agree to sex you agree to what could happen, be it a Baby or a STD... you make that risk on you own... and like Aids you should have to live with it. Hate to compare Aids with Babys, but that how Pro-abortion people treat Babies they don't want.
     
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  22. Rolf12

    Rolf12 Member

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    That's such a fantastic and fundamental view. Categorical and judgemental at the same time.

    First of all: are you a woman?
    I'm not and do not feel I am entitled to tell them how to live their lives or handle unwanted pregnancies. It is important that people who want to tell other people how to live their lives based on some moral setup should be kept out of legislation.

    With that out of the way; upper limit for abortion needs to be well thought over. 18 weeks perhaps? Most
     
  23. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    The standards in most of Europe do well for me. Free and clear until pain responses/central nervous system development and whatnot (usually several months in and most people would know), after that you would want a medic to want to sign off on it and it would usually be for risk to the carrier or that the embryo is unlikely to lead a good life. The latter part has a lot of grey area and while I would consider several choices as bloody stupid (ex maybe being if you let an aggressive cancer spread for 6 months rather than abort I would consider that stupid) I would similarly be against compelling it in cases where people are able to choose.


    It is still a fair time sink and cuts into career progression and time for running around doing what you like after it is born. Similarly the poorest members of society still manage to squeeze out the kids as it stands now, even in places with ready access to such things. Unless welfare gets to be increased to "fob it off on a nanny" levels then...

    It is an outcome that is possible, however we don't not prescribe penicillin because going somewhere and getting scratched carries a risk of infection. If we have the tools, time and talent to sort the problem then why not offer it?
     
  24. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    Alyssa Milano is on a #sexstrike because of anti abortion thinking this will own Republicans, but she’s owning herself because thats exactly what republicans want. No sleeping around to create unwanted pregnancies.

    In Texas the tried to pass a bill to fine men $100 each time they masturbate to own men and show what it’s like have laws telling them what they can do with their body.


    I don’t think these people actually talked to a religious conservative. Because religious people are against masturbation. These aren’t arguments against the religious pro life right. They’re in support.


    That’s what the left does, they own themselves and eat their own because they don’t understand the republican position.


    There was research done by Jonathan Haidt that liberals were less accurate at predicting at how republicans vote and republicans more accurate at how liberals vote. Rep understands libs more then libs understand Rep. And it shows more often then not. They get things wrong about them, or misrepresent arguments, or they argue points no one even brought up to virtue signal, or don’t understand the nuance.

    That’s what happens when they ban conservatives because hate speech is all around us, oh my god!





    I’m pro choice. I think it respects both sides to some degree, without laws that support only one side completely. People that don’t see it a bad thing can get it. People that see it as a horrific act against humans can not get it. It won’t completely satisfy the rights goal to save all unborn babies, but it can at least satisfy their own beliefs with their own family.
     
    Last edited by SG854, May 22, 2019
  25. TerribleTy27

    TerribleTy27 GBAtemp Regular

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    Hmm... Personally I believe they get it as soon as the sperm hits the egg (do you kill a braindead patient who'll recover in 6 months?), but in cases where the embryo could live a terrible life or endangers another human life there's definitely a lot of grey area. As for compelling it, I one hundred percent agree. It's only a sad attempt to bandage a symptom of a much larger problem.
     
  26. TerribleTy27

    TerribleTy27 GBAtemp Regular

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    I um... Your right about @Undwiz being judgemental, but don't do the 'are you x' argument. I don't professionally study ethics but does that not mean we can't discuss why slavery is wrong? Many of the people who helped get rid of slavery in Britain (can't think of the guys name) weren't slave owners, or slaves, but they still saw gross human rights violations and helped stop it.


    And as for the 'tell them how to live their lives, sure. It's not any of our business if it just involved the woman.

    BUT, if you think that an embryo is human, then we're talking about mass murder on a ridiculous scale. It doesn't just involve a woman. This is something that needs to be discussed.
     
  27. WeedZ

    WeedZ Possibly an Enlightened Being

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    Braindead people dont recover. Hence the "dead" part
     
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