ROM Hack Korg DS-10 Hacking.

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Fraesh said:
Pici said:
Does the game work on your ds ?
i have a R4, when i launch the game ,i have a weird japaense sentence and I can't do anything
Had the same too with hacked (older) R4 firmware on my M3 Simply, i got the newest firmware and voila working great

EDIT: btw, WTF?? there is only ONE sample and this is a sinus sound, ONE!!! the rest is effects! there are no drums, only effected sinus sound!! Never used a real synth? so if you hack this one sound it wouldnt make much sense o0
Indeed, it works well. I tried he game 5 minutes but i'm too lazy, i don't think i'll touch it again.
 
playallday said:
After looking at Korg DS-10 it looks like you maybe can; The file system is very easy to hack.

EDIT: We need a Hex Hacker and I'm not one.
Is that for strings? Cause there's a tool for guitar hero custom songs that extracts strings from the arm9, maybe edit that program a little, and actually get custom sounds goin? Cuz like u can use korg for club music, but its limited, I want full club with all kinds of sounds, cuz i've gotten one full minuet with one of my songs, and now I'm stumped, I've run out of stuff to put in
wacko.gif


Anybody wanna hear one of my songs? It's the starting I'm still working on it...
 
Why would you fiddle around trying to make the DS-10 (which does what it's supposed to do excellently) do something it isn't intended to do, when you can just go download NitroTracker and easily input your own samples?
 
I don't believe this is possible. In FL Studio, I can get a full set of drums from the 3xOSC generator. One of the reason the Korg DS-10 is so small when compressed would be that it uses the same functions with different variables to produce each sound, including the drums.

As much as I would love to load the FPC drum set in, I don't think it's possible unless someone wants to take a TON of time editing it.
 
valyr said:
Nope never used a synth lol prefer real instruments

That's a pretty ignorant statement. You've clearly never looked at or heard a real analog synth. Just because the sounds are created electronically, that doesn't mean it isn't a real instrument. Are you saying a Hammond B3 is not a real instrument? It runs mechanically, but the sound is created electronically, yet it is one of the most used, most versatile and timeless instrument in modern music. It is used in everything from jazz to hard rock. I know this is extremely over-simplified (I know, I play Hammond and other synthesizers), but it gets the point across.

A real synthesizer takes an extreme amount of skill and a fine ear. Not only does it require all the same knowledge it takes to play a piano, it also requires knowledge of different waveforms, filters, oscillators, etc. Just because you can't understand it, doesn't make it a real instrument.[/rant]

The Korg DS-10 is not meant to be a sequencer or a drum machine. If that's what you are looking for then just don't bother. This is meant to simulate a true analog synthesizer. It may be possible, but why would you want to turn something like the DS-10 into something completely different (read: NitroTracker)? Would you want Super Mario Bros. to play like Legend of Zelda? No, because then it wouldn't be Super Mario Bros.
 
underpressure116 said:
valyr said:
Nope never used a synth lol prefer real instruments

That's a pretty ignorant statement. You've clearly never looked at or heard a real analog synth. Just because the sounds are created electronically, that doesn't mean it isn't a real instrument. Are you saying a Hammond B3 is not a real instrument? It runs mechanically, but the sound is created electronically, yet it is one of the most used, most versatile and timeless instrument in modern music. It is used in everything from jazz to hard rock. I know this is extremely over-simplified (I know, I play Hammond and other synthesizers), but it gets the point across.

A real synthesizer takes an extreme amount of skill and a fine ear. Not only does it require all the same knowledge it takes to play a piano, it also requires knowledge of different waveforms, filters, oscillators, etc. Just because you can't understand it, doesn't make it a real instrument.[/rant]

The Korg DS-10 is not meant to be a sequencer or a drum machine. If that's what you are looking for then just don't bother. This is meant to simulate a true analog synthesizer. It may be possible, but why would you want to turn something like the DS-10 into something completely different (read: NitroTracker)? Would you want Super Mario Bros. to play like Legend of Zelda? No, because then it wouldn't be Super Mario Bros.


Good man, good man indeed.
 
I started learning basics of synths (like envelopes, etc) but what I lack is music theory, rather than synths. Knowledge of what note to play instead of how cool the sound of the notes are. which I lack heavily and hate to learn classical music theory.
 
Well, you don't necessarily need classical theory in order to play sufficiently to have fun. I know all my theory, but it really is not essential to play for fun. Just learn chord theory and scales (circle of 5ths make this much easier). Once you know how to play all the different chords and scales, learn different chord progressions and create your melodies out of the scales you've learned. You don't necessarily need to know what finger goes on the B, which finger goes on the D#, and what finger goes on the F#, just where the next note is from your root (in this case the B) and the next note above that. Here's some examples that show you HOW to create the chord instead of telling you WHAT the chord is:

Major chord: You start with your root (this is the note that you will build your chord from). We'll pick C natural. From your root the major third is 5 keys above it (including the root). So C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E. E is your third. Then the fifth (which will complete your major chord) is a minor third above that. A minor third is 4 keys as opposed to 5. E, F, F#/Gb, G. G is your fifth, therefore your C Major chord consists of C, E and G. Now apply this to any other root and you can play any major chord (I.E. root=F means third=A and fifth=C).

Minor Chord: Start with a root (we'll use C again for consistency). It is almost the same procedure as a major chord, but reversed. As in, the third is only four half steps above the root (C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb) and the fifth is five half steps above that (Eb, F, F#/Gb, G).

The root and the fifth will always be the same between a major and minor chord. What makes the difference is the third which you play a half step lower in a minor chord. C E G becomes C Eb G.

Now, once you learn your scales, you can play just about anything. A major scale also starts with a root (once again we will use C). From the root the progression goes: whole step, whole step, half step, whole, whole, whole, half. So C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. As practice, take any random note an apply the same formula. It will be tough at first, but it will get into your fingers eventually.

A minor scale is a little more tricky. There are three types of minor scales: Natural, Harmonic, and Melodic. A minor scale is relative to another major scale. The root of the scale begins on the sixth scale degree of its relative major scale. The relative minor scale to C Major (the scale we just discussed) would be A. From here the natural minor progression proceeds as follows: Whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole, whole or A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A. A natural minor scales means exact that, it is natural. No modifications. A harmonic minor scale is slightly different. It is basically the same except you sharp the seventh note in the scale, the G. So a harmonic minor scale is whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole + half (minor third), half or A, B, C, D, E, F, G#, A. And the final minor scale, the melodic minor, is the trickiest. In this scale, the sixth and seventh degree are sharped as you ascend the scale, but not as you descend. So in A, the scale is A, B, C, D, E, F#, G#, A on the way up and A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A on the way down.

That is a good stepping stone for setting you on the right path to basic playing. Once you have a firm grasp on all that, there is little else that you must learn to achieve a sufficient level of playing. All that is left is chord progressions, pentatonic scales, some more chord theory and basic rhythm techniques and you will be able to play nearly any song well enough to keep you entertained forever.
wink2.gif


EDIT: Certain notes are labeled as both a sharped note and a flat note. These are called Enharmonics. This means that they are the same note, but the name changes depending on what key you are in. D# is actually Eb when you are in C minor but is D# when you are in F#. The Circle of Fifths will also help you greatly when learning how different keys work.
 
/salute Underpressure

My one tip on music theory, don't make a transition like C major to E major, because there are too many differences between the notes. C major to G Dominate or D Dorian is much better because it's technically still the same scale.

I've never extensively used a synthesizer. I make dance music in FL Studio, I compose stand tunes in Finale, and I pretty much play everything in a jazz combo, but now I've got another thing to conquer.
 
gosp said:
/salute Underpressure

My one tip on music theory, don't make a transition like C major to E major, because there are too many differences between the notes. C major to G Dominate or D Dorian is much better because it's technically still the same scale.

I've never extensively used a synthesizer. I make dance music in FL Studio, I compose stand tunes in Finale, and I pretty much play everything in a jazz combo, but now I've got another thing to conquer.


Gosp, this is a good tip for beginners in theory, but once you really get into theory you'll understand that using out of scale tones and key changes is a very effective composing technique (see: jazz). The really important thing is to experiment!
 
I said it before and I'll say it again. The Korg DS-10 is a synthesizer, NOT a sequencer. You can't just hack sounds in. As mentioned already, nitrotracker does what people are carrying on about anyway. Just download samples off the net and stick them in nitrotracker. If it's the sequencing interface that entices you, then...wait a while. I'm sure somebody will come along and make a homebrew app that suits your fancy. Yes, making a whole new app makes more sense, and is more feasible, than hacking Korg DS-10.
 
underpressure116 said:
Well, you don't necessarily need classical theory in order to play sufficiently to have fun. I know all my theory, but it really is not essential to play for fun. Just learn chord theory and scales (circle of 5ths make this much easier). Once you know how to play all the different chords and scales, learn different chord progressions and create your melodies out of the scales you've learned. You don't necessarily need to know what finger goes on the B, which finger goes on the D#, and what finger goes on the F#, just where the next note is from your root (in this case the B) and the next note above that. Here's some examples that show you HOW to create the chord instead of telling you WHAT the chord is:

Major chord: You start with your root (this is the note that you will build your chord from). We'll pick C natural. From your root the major third is 5 keys above it (including the root). So C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E. E is your third. Then the fifth (which will complete your major chord) is a minor third above that. A minor third is 4 keys as opposed to 5. E, F, F#/Gb, G. G is your fifth, therefore your C Major chord consists of C, E and G. Now apply this to any other root and you can play any major chord (I.E. root=F means third=A and fifth=C).

Minor Chord: Start with a root (we'll use C again for consistency). It is almost the same procedure as a major chord, but reversed. As in, the third is only four half steps above the root (C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb) and the fifth is five half steps above that (Eb, F, F#/Gb, G).

The root and the fifth will always be the same between a major and minor chord. What makes the difference is the third which you play a half step lower in a minor chord. C E G becomes C Eb G.

Now, once you learn your scales, you can play just about anything. A major scale also starts with a root (once again we will use C). From the root the progression goes: whole step, whole step, half step, whole, whole, whole, half. So C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. As practice, take any random note an apply the same formula. It will be tough at first, but it will get into your fingers eventually.

A minor scale is a little more tricky. There are three types of minor scales: Natural, Harmonic, and Melodic. A minor scale is relative to another major scale. The root of the scale begins on the sixth scale degree of its relative major scale. The relative minor scale to C Major (the scale we just discussed) would be A. From here the natural minor progression proceeds as follows: Whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole, whole or A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A. A natural minor scales means exact that, it is natural. No modifications. A harmonic minor scale is slightly different. It is basically the same except you sharp the seventh note in the scale, the G. So a harmonic minor scale is whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole + half (minor third), half or A, B, C, D, E, F, G#, A. And the final minor scale, the melodic minor, is the trickiest. In this scale, the sixth and seventh degree are sharped as you ascend the scale, but not as you descend. So in A, the scale is A, B, C, D, E, F#, G#, A on the way up and A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A on the way down.

That is a good stepping stone for setting you on the right path to basic playing. Once you have a firm grasp on all that, there is little else that you must learn to achieve a sufficient level of playing. All that is left is chord progressions, pentatonic scales, some more chord theory and basic rhythm techniques and you will be able to play nearly any song well enough to keep you entertained forever.
wink2.gif


EDIT: Certain notes are labeled as both a sharped note and a flat note. These are called Enharmonics. This means that they are the same not, but the name changes depending on what key you are in. D# is actually Eb when you are in C minor but is D# when you are in F#. The Circle of Fifths will also help you greatly when learning how different keys work.

in one word,
I love you.
wub.gif


I'm still reading your explanations fully but in the mean time, I wanted to ask you how to should I select notes to improvise upon a chord that you taught.
my main concerns are these: which chord should I use after current one, another Major? another Minor? or to be more specific, WHICH minor? an A? B? how to select? what if I want to have a "happy" progression or in contrary, what if I want a dark mood.

and latter, how to select notes from, how does scales and chords relate.

I have a 5 year electric guitar background but what stopped me from creating more is theses things, I can write a background on root of E (which I barely know what that statement means, I just know that first note should be E) and then Improvise on the same key in Pentatonic scale but thats all, I donno how to more that background chord into other things or etcetra.

another thing about playing on background is with my harmonica, I went to some site and they said that the song is on key of C and you need a harmonica on key of (I forgot what exactly was the key) like G and that amazed me, shouldnt we always be on our key? like when the background is on C, we should play from C, right?

I don't know the words to thank you enough, sorry, but theses information are invaluable to me.
 
test84 said:
in one word,
I love you.
wub.gif


I'm still reading your explanations fully but in the mean time, I wanted to ask you how to should I select notes to improvise upon a chord that you taught.
my main concerns are these: which chord should I use after current one, another Major? another Minor? or to be more specific, WHICH minor? an A? B? how to select? what if I want to have a "happy" progression or in contrary, what if I want a dark mood.

and latter, how to select notes from, how does scales and chords relate.

I have a 5 year electric guitar background but what stopped me from creating more is theses things, I can write a background on root of E (which I barely know what that statement means, I just know that first note should be E) and then Improvise on the same key in Pentatonic scale but thats all, I donno how to more that background chord into other things or etcetra.

another thing about playing on background is with my harmonica, I went to some site and they said that the song is on key of C and you need a harmonica on key of (I forgot what exactly was the key) like G and that amazed me, shouldnt we always be on our key? like when the background is on C, we should play from C, right?

I don't know the words to thank you enough, sorry, but theses information are invaluable to me.

Well, there are thousands upon thousands of different chord progressions. There are also tons of resources out there. If you google "common chord progressions" you should be able to find ample information. The most basic and commonly used progression is a I IV V progression. This means the root or tonic chord of the scale (In the key of C, the I is C), the major chord based on the fourth scale degree (in this case, F) and the also the Fifth (G). So the progression is C major, F major, then G major. For improvisation you would want to use a basic 12 bar blues. Then you solo using the different scales within whatever key you are in. If you are on A minor you can solo on any of the notes in the C major scales, A minor, A minor/major pentatonic, A Blues (just a modified pentatonic) among other more advanced scales and modes.

Harmonizing scales can be slightly tricky. When you are in the key of C major, the scale degrees are C Major, D Minor, E Minor, F Major, G Major, A Minor, B Diminished and C Major. This formula applies to all major scales. Major (I), minor (ii), minor (iii), major (IV), major (V), minor(vi), diminished(vii°), major(I). So starting in Bb the chords go: Bb Major, C minor, D minor, Eb major, F major, G minor, A diminished, Bb Major. Minor scales changes it a little bit depending on what type of minor you are in. If you are in a natural minor scale (or Aeolian mode) you just rearrange everything starting on the relative minor of the scale, or the vi (vi vii° I ii iii IV V vi or i ii° III iv v VI VII i). If you are in a harmonic minor scale, you must sharp the seventh degree, so every chord that contains the seventh degree must compensate for that. Therefore the scale is as follows: i ii° III+ iv V VI vii° and the i in the minor key is the vi in it's major key, so it could be rewritten as vi vii° I+ ii III IV V vi. + denotes an augmented chord which means you must sharp the Fifth degree of the chord, as in C E G becomes C E G#/Ab. These scales are built from whatever key you start in. The Circle of Fifths is useful for learning more about keys. I suggest this article to learn more about the Circle of Fifths.

Now harmonicas are interesting. There are several different types of harmonicas out there. The most commonly used on in the west is the blues harp or Diatonic Harmonica. Diatonic Harmonicas are basically meant to play in only one key, therefore you must use a different harmonica for a different song. The tuning here is a little funky. Most harmonica is played in second position or Crossed Harp, therefore in a different key. Here is a good tutorial for learning this different tuning.

I think that's everything you needed covered. A lot of this is terminology. Once you learn the different terms for these things it becomes easy to learn as more information than you can possibly imagine is available online. I hope this helps you. If you have any other questions I'm more than willing to offer my support again. Enjoy.
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what is the best way to record the music off of the ds with? So far ive being using a guitar chord with 2 adapters. Is there a better way? Is there a decent way to record two ds's at once?
 
This is my first post but I couldn't resist. I agree it would be a whole different app with samples and sequencing. Now that I've been playing with DS-10 for a bit I think there is something pretty major that prevents it from being a true performance instrument and not just a toy (or comp notepad).

There are two basic modes for playing music (btw I only don't speak Japanese so I haven't read all the terms in the manual).

One is a pattern making mode which allows you to do all the kaoss stuff and tweak in realtime while each pattern is playing. Each pattern is basically a measure with up to 16 parts -- very short in other words. You can create up to 16 patterns and, if you're pretty quick, do some tweakin in one and then flip to the pattern selector and change patterns for more tweakin. Sounds pretty cool but can get old pretty fast.

To piece the patterns together so they play in the order you want, you need to switch to Song mode. That causes all sounds to stop. While the song is playing, if you click on the editor, you are then switched back to whatever pattern was playing. To go back to Song mode, the music has to stop again.

So IMHO, the best hack for this would be one that allows all the synth/pattern/kaoss editors to work in Song mode. That way you could get a pretty complex piece of music going while tweakin it in realtime. In its current state, the DS10 can get pretty boring if you're "performing" with just a single pattern playing at any one time.

chrisL
 
I've been a studio keyboardist and arranger since I was a teenager. I have a Bachelor of Music in Composition and also studied at the New England Conservatory, but I don't get to verbalize what I've learned very often. That's why it's a pleasure to log onto gbatemp, one of my favorite game forums, and find posts by people hungry to learn about pragmatic music theory. Korg might be partly responsible for inspiring this conversation (I love that company), but the ideas, enthusiasm and discoveries belong to you.

To me, composing music has always felt similar to playing a game.

Your questions about matching scales to chords can be answered in several ways: according to traditional tonal harmony, renaissance modal harmony, jazz theory and free-tonal harmony. In the end, it comes down to learning the names of things -- scales, chords, intervals and progressions -- understanding relationships between chords, and trusting your own ear, which is the key to what makes you unique. If you find relationships that are uncommon, and look at scales in your own way, that isn't a liability in an original musician. It's actually an advantage.

Here's a little exercise for you: find a slow meter and play two chords for four counts each. It doesn't matter what chords you choose. If you can, record yourself playing the chords repeatedly.

Now look at your chords horizontally: take them apart note by note. Write them down, either on music paper or as letters. Then arrange the notes into a scale. Your answer: That scale will work for both chords.

Say that your first chord is F-G-C and your second chord is E-A-D. Let's combine them: F-G-A-(B or B-flat)-C-D-E: Voila.

Notice the two notes in parentheses: This scale degree wasn't part of the chords. You can choose to: (1) Leave it out entirely, creating a gapped scale of six notes, (2) add a B-natural or (3) add a B-flat. How do you determine which to use? Play all three scales and decide which sounds best to you. If you've recorded or looped the chords, try all three scales against them.

Even when a scale has been found, you'll notice that certain notes don't sound good against the chords, particularly on strong beats. Other notes only sound good when they're approached or left in a particular way. The melodic context of a note in a scale is called its *tendencies*. In a C-Major scale, the *traditional* tendencies of the notes work out like this: D-C, F-E, A-G, B-C. But writing original music often puts you in the unique position of defining tendencies on your own terms: Strong melodic shapes can create tendencies of their own, so that notes resolve in ways that are particular to your music and your sound. Listen to traditional Balinese gamelon music and you'll hear what I mean: Melodic tendencies are as strong as those in music by Mozart, but the shape of those tendencies is so different as to seem alien by comparison. Hearing gamelon music at the World Paris Exhibition was what made Ravel vow to become a composer: He knew instantly that this new (to him) sound awoke a voice in him, that he would have something distinct to contribute that was not to be found in traditional harmony.

The fundamental key to music is this: It is all based on tension and release. Every rhythm, every melodic leap and step, every combination of notes, every change in timbre, every gradation of loud and soft -- all are used to create contours of tension and release: shapes that increase and decrease in psychological intensity over time. If you create tension, find ways to resolve it and ways to keep it going. Do the same with release. Tension and release are at the heart of music, fiction and poetry. Every art that rides time finds a way to master these.

If you're watching an old-school horror flick, you'll hear a lot of dissonance, wide melodic leaps, startling rhythms and abrupt contrasts from loud to soft. That's because the composer is trying to create as much tension as possible. In ambient music, the opposite is often true: you'll hear small steps in the melodies, pleasing chords, fewer dynamics and comparatively little change -- all to create a sense of release to help people relax.

Again, there is no correct level of tension and/or release -- all have their purpose. It is always a question of consistency and taste.

Anyway.

I've been playing with the DS-10 all weekend and absolutely love it. It's the best mobile composition solution I've found so far. Song mode is ass, because it's entirely loop-based and forces you to calculate ways to connect each "pattern" (i.e., measure) instead of letting you play through them spontaneously, but in the days of the MS-10, that's how sequencers worked. I'd bow to the vintage-ness of it all if Korg hadn't included three Kaoss pads per part, which allow for automated mixing within patterns and throw the whole enterprise into a much later period of workstation development. If Korg allows that, then they should make all of the controls available in pattern mode work in song mode, too, and add continuous recording over barlines as a mode within Song Mode. After all, Logic, ProTools, Ableton Live and Cubase have done that for fifteen-to-twenty years.

The first and most important hack to be accomplished with the DS-10? IMO, a MIDI extraction utility, which would cull MIDI sequences from the DS-10's save files to be refined with PC software. Ultimately, I'd like to be able to pass files back and forth from DS-10 to PC tracker.

I don't think a hack that allows through-composed tracking on the DS-10 is likely -- that would be really involved work, and the DS-10 is meticulously thought out. It is more likely that Korg might add that feature in a later DS package -- esp. if the DS-10 does as well as it should.
 
hey guys I am new to this site and was interested to see all the info question on the Korg DS 10. I was wondering if anybody that actually serious about music should consider the actual Korg product, more pro version that the nintendo DS version is from, it may satisfy all types of drum sample solutions but if all of this is to come up with it on the Korg DS 10 then well great I hope someone comes up with all the great suggestions Ill be just as pleased for all there efforts just thought I share that info if someone was nt awarehttp://www.korgkaossilator.com/
 

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