Islamaphobia

[Lazycus]

Yes Prophet, we know you hate the U.S.A./Western civilization/capitalism but isn't it a bit much to blame it for everything wrong in the world?

I do enjoy your 'dam the river' example. It reminds me of the Tigris. I'm not sure it's a good example of the western world being the architect of global suffering though.

Remember the good ole U.S. of A. has only been around 232 years.

Do you think you can make a change in the U.S.A. or will you be leaving for Africa or some other location soon?

 

[Prophet]

Hate the U.S.A? I am the U.S.A. My people built her, my people have shed blood for her in countless wars. My uncles, my grandfather, my people; they are America. So no I don't hate her. I hate capitalism and oppression. I hate corruption, I hate the bureaucracy but I don't hate my country. At times I despise what she has become, but the intentions that she was founded under were pure.

I don't place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the U.S. , colonization is the true culprit and that far out dates the U.S. What I feel does make the modern western world less forgivable for it's actions is the pretense that is used to veil intention and history. I would prefer we were more up front about our goals, however brutal or barbaric. Morality and capitalism can not sit at the table together, it's that simple. The state of the world is a burden that all nations share some blame in. But if the capitalist agenda continues to reign, then the world will never change. People will die not because there isn't enough food, but because the "bottom-line" is worth more than their lives.

As far as leaving, I'll never stay away from long. The change must come from within. The only question is this: Can anything be salvaged or does the whole nation have to be reduced to ash so that it may rise anew? Either way, something will eventually give way...

 

[A4NoOb]

I hate corruption, I hate the bureaucracy but I don't hate my country. At times I despise what she has become, but the intentions that she was founded under were pure.

By the sounds of this you would hate communism and ANY totalitarian society than democracy. As the famous saying goes, democracy is a horrible government until you look at the rest. But I would like to see examples where you back up your overly exerted philosophical analysis of the Western society.

ProphetHow can we even speak of oppression? Last time I checked America was the master of it. You see the only difference between our tactics and their's is this: The Muslim extremist will show you the knife before he brings it to your throat. We on the other hand are more overt in our delivery of the blade. Ask yourself this, which has claimed more lives; The fires set by Islamic extremists or the trade embargoes we use to choke-out the nations that don't fall into line with our views.

...
Muslim extremists show people their knife before they kill them? What kind of outrageous statement is that? Terrorists pose as innocent civilians all the time and blow themselves up on a bus or a building or anywhere. In what way would you find that "honorable" enough to show their knife? How are they "showing their knife" when they pose deliberately as 'innocent interviewers' and blow up Ahmed Massoud? How do you find ANYTHING honest in terrorist actions? Please at least be a little expository in your assertions.

 

[Hitto]

Prohpet, I don't know how old you are, but you need to travel...

Okay, let's say we all live 2000 years ago. You would probably say how evil Rome is and how its military expansion rapes the world (it did). But their achievements far outweigh the bad, with notable influences that help us even today; And *my* logic is flawed? You DO know what computers and the internet were originally built for, right? The first to build bombs, and the second to have a communication system that would survive those bombs! Yeah, it's rotten, but fifty years later we have access to nuclear power and the internet in the public domain. You're looking to put blame on something? Blame the times we live in.

Sigh... I dunno, maybe what I'm trying to say is that you're a spoiled brat. Let's leave it at that.

A4NoOb : I forgot to tell you something, don't rely too much on our media to paint a fair picture. Before I went to Africa, all I'd seen of it were either animal documentaries, and not a single news item that didn't contain starving kids or violent uprisings. And you know... Yeah, shit happens there, but imagine if all you saw about your own country on the news, every day was about homeless people, jesus camps, morbidly obese people participating in hot dog eating contests, and rednecks? And what if it's the same in other countries? Guess what, it is! Here in France, I can tell you the media definitely loves to snob America. I think the last time I'd heard of america that wasn't totally depressing was the coverage of burning man. So I don't even wanna start on dictator-owned media. Any way, what I'm trying to say is don't panic and paint a picture too black.

 

[kikuchiyo]

To wit:
A4NoOb and Lazycus
Islam is evil, Muslims are evil. There is nothing good about Islam.

I think I, westside, and test84 are proof enough to the contrary. If you don't think so, you need to go see the world. I've lived in the U.S., Japan, and Bangladesh - people are just people. Even Muslims.

 

[mastermanna123]

*Walks into topic...*
*Angry ppl are staring at me >_> ...

 

[mastermanna123]

I hate corruption, I hate the bureaucracy but I don't hate my country. At times I despise what she has become, but the intentions that she was founded under were pure.

By the sounds of this you would hate communism and ANY totalitarian society than democracy. As the famous saying goes, democracy is a horrible government until you look at the rest. But I would like to see examples where you back up your overly exerted philosophical analysis of the Western society.

ProphetHow can we even speak of oppression? Last time I checked America was the master of it. You see the only difference between our tactics and their's is this: The Muslim extremist will show you the knife before he brings it to your throat. We on the other hand are more overt in our delivery of the blade. Ask yourself this, which has claimed more lives; The fires set by Islamic extremists or the trade embargoes we use to choke-out the nations that don't fall into line with our views.

...
Muslim extremists show people their knife before they kill them? What kind of outrageous statement is that? Terrorists pose as innocent civilians all the time and blow themselves up on a bus or a building or anywhere. In what way would you find that "honorable" enough to show their knife? How are they "showing their knife" when they pose deliberately as 'innocent interviewers' and blow up Ahmed Massoud? How do you find ANYTHING honest in terrorist actions? Please at least be a little expository in your assertions.

*facepalmheaddesk*
its a figure of speech
i think he means that muslims dont react with the violence as quick. They show warning and caution before action, opposed to the US just jumping in. but in a way both sides are wrong in their own way.

 

[Eternal Myst]

???? ???? ?? ??????

 

[Westside]

???? ???? ?? ??????

?????? ??

I'm sure you can write that in English...

 

[Eternal Myst]

???? ???? ?? ??????

?????? ??

I'm sure you can write that in English...

Don't take me seriously.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[A4NoOb]

To wit:
A4NoOb and Lazycus
Islam is evil, Muslims are evil. There is nothing good about Islam.

I think I, westside, and test84 are proof enough to the contrary. If you don't think so, you need to go see the world. I've lived in the U.S., Japan, and Bangladesh - people are just people. Even Muslims.

I don't think you even read my posts. At all. No where am I talking about Islam, and I am not talking about Muslims, I'm talking about extremists. But obviously since you have a knack at labeling people, you think that the facts I present have no correlation to the opinion I am making.
QUOTE(mastermanna123 @ Jul 6 2008, 11:18 AM) *facepalmheaddesk*
its a figure of speech
i think he means that muslims dont react with the violence as quick. They show warning and caution before action, opposed to the US just jumping in. but in a way both sides are wrong in their own way.

Of course it's a figure of speech, I never took it literally o.O
What is sounds like though is that terrorists are open about their aims and reveal their actions to their "victims" both of which are not true at all.

 

[Lazycus]

To wit:
A4NoOb and Lazycus
Islam is evil, Muslims are evil. There is nothing good about Islam.

I think I, westside, and test84 are proof enough to the contrary. If you don't think so, you need to go see the world. I've lived in the U.S., Japan, and Bangladesh - people are just people. Even Muslims.

Where did I say anything about Islam or Muslims being all evil? Just because you're a racist with a signature that shows you as such don't try to include me as a hateful person. I think that's what you're trying to do with the "To wit:" but I'm not sure you've used it correctly.

People are not just people. Every religion has a percentage of extremists who will gladly kill you and justify it in the name of their god. Some religions have a higher percentage than others. Most religions are divided into factions who will gladly kill over their differences in their views of 'their religion' and 'their god'.

I think most people in the world are good people no matter what their religion/race/origin/etc. Every group has their share of idiots. Unfortunately many of those idiots rise to power and manipulate the good people to do evil things in the name of the 'group'. Those idiots deserve to be identified as such and have their hateful actions exposed and prevented and be punished for them. I think that was the intention of the original poster to say that no group should be immune to having their hateful actions pointed out no matter if they are a minority or majority group. Hate is hate. Take a good luck at your signature and evaluate whether it is an objection to hate or just promoting more.

 

[Prophet]

...
Muslim extremists show people their knife before they kill them? What kind of outrageous statement is that? Terrorists pose as innocent civilians all the time and blow themselves up on a bus or a building or anywhere. In what way would you find that "honorable" enough to show their knife? How are they "showing their knife" when they pose deliberately as 'innocent interviewers' and blow up Ahmed Massoud? How do you find ANYTHING honest in terrorist actions? Please at least be a little expository in your assertions.

*facepalmheaddesk*
its a figure of speech
i think he means that muslims dont react with the violence as quick. They show warning and caution before action, opposed to the US just jumping in. but in a way both sides are wrong in their own way.

Yes I mean that purely figuratively. The Muslim extremist sets a fire because a cartoonist depicted Muhammad (pbuh). Thats clear cut reasoning, they are showing you the knife. I'm not speaking on the morality of the action, I'm simply saying they use less of a guise. I'm also not arguing that Islam is some how more "good" or purer than western world, I am simply saying that our own immorality is so great that we are in no position to point fingers. We are far from worthy enough to be casting any stones; thats my point and thats it. We are not humanitarians, we are serving no greater good. We ruled the world, if it's their turn now then we should just move aside. Otherwise American vanity and it's sense of entitlement are going to be the death of us.

I hate corruption, I hate the bureaucracy but I don't hate my country. At times I despise what she has become, but the intentions that she was founded under were pure.

By the sounds of this you would hate communism and ANY totalitarian society than democracy. As the famous saying goes, democracy is a horrible government until you look at the rest. But I would like to see examples where you back up your overly exerted philosophical analysis of the Western society.

The seeds of corruption sprout forth from the hearts of man. It is inescapable. The charge I lay at the feet of our society is this: The bureaucrat holds no qualm when he cloaks the corruption and sells it to you as democracy.

QUOTE(Hitto @ Jul 6 2008, 03:24 PM)

Prohpet, I don't know how old you are, but you need to travel...

Okay, let's say we all live 2000 years ago. You would probably say how evil Rome is and how its military expansion rapes the world (it did). But their achievements far outweigh the bad, with notable influences that help us even today; And *my* logic is flawed? You DO know what computers and the internet were originally built for, right? The first to build bombs, and the second to have a communication system that would survive those bombs! Yeah, it's rotten, but fifty years later we have access to nuclear power and the internet in the public domain. You're looking to put blame on something? Blame the times we live in.

Sigh... I dunno, maybe what I'm trying to say is that you're a spoiled brat. Let's leave it at that.

Nice to see this post is at least written in a less degrading format.

So the end justifies the means? Only through war and conquest are we capable of advancing our society? Okay, well if a Muslim extremist comes to your door and goes “BOOM”; please rejoice. Be happy in the milliseconds before it all goes black. Perhaps your death is serving some future greater good.

Whether the “achievements far outweigh the bad” is relative. Your statement is the type of thing that only comes from the mouths of people who's society sits atop the fruits of conflict and have subsequently forgotten the cold sting of burdened shoulders. And maybe that's why I don't feel so scared about the prospect of Islam-ification. Maybe the world is ripe for change, a passing of the baton may be in order. Surely this prospect doesn't scare you, after all it's just history repeating itself, the same type of history you found it “smart” to cite. Nations rise and fall, the boot of one people upon the necks of another. Are you prepared to come out at the bottom? Or does your logic hide a caveat; Do the “achievements far outweigh the bad” only when you and yours can claim victory?

I would argue that I'm not a “spoiled brat” but to do so would require me to speak of my humanitarian actions and in my eyes that would diminish the reason that I do said actions. So rather than drag something that is of pure intention down into the muck I'll simply allow for your criticism. To address your question of age: I'm 21.

Lastly, I'd like to apologize to everyone. In having conversations like this, it is hard not to use generalizing terms simply because they are convenient. I in no way mean to draw blanketed conclusions of Westerners, Muslims or any peoples. The inability to separate the will of the people from the will of the loudest people, is perhaps the greatest tragedy of the global community.

 

[WelshLadGriff]

I have no quarrel with any of this topic, but i'm posting nonetheless. People have opinions about the way they think the world should be lived. I'm not too bothered about any of this, but to be honest, I hate terrorists.

Why? I think the answers in front of you. All we get out of them is shit because they like nothing better than screaming 'Allah' and before you know it there's half of your colleauges dead. Examples of this? 9/11. Oh, remember the bus in the UK 2 years ago? Yeah.

End statement? Fuck Terrorist and their shit-colord turbans.

This is my opinion. Go on. Feel free to call me racist because they are the only race of scum that i cant stand. All other races are cool. African-American. Japanese. You should be proud that your a part of your race.

 

[Eternal Myst]

I have no quarrel with any of this topic, but i'm posting nonetheless. People have opinions about the way they think the world should be lived. I'm not too bothered about any of this, but to be honest, I hate terrorists.

Why? I think the answers in front of you. All we get out of them is shit because they like nothing better than screaming 'Allah' and before you know it there's half of your colleauges dead. Examples of this? 9/11. Oh, remember the bus in the UK 2 years ago? Yeah.

End statement? Fuck Terrorist and their shit-colord turbans.

This is my opinion. Go on. Feel free to call me racist because they are the only race of scum that i cant stand. All other races are cool. African-American. Japanese. You should be proud that your a part of your race.

Terrorists are a race.

Why I never knew that

???? ????

 

[Extreme Coder]

To wit:
A4NoOb and Lazycus
Islam is evil, Muslims are evil. There is nothing good about Islam.

I think I, westside, and test84 are proof enough to the contrary. If you don't think so, you need to go see the world. I've lived in the U.S., Japan, and Bangladesh - people are just people. Even Muslims.

*Ahem* Muslim here too, you know..

 

[A4NoOb]

Yes I mean that purely figuratively. The Muslim extremist sets a fire because a cartoonist depicted Muhammad (pbuh). Thats clear cut reasoning, they are showing you the knife. I'm not speaking on the morality of the action, I'm simply saying they use less of a guise. I'm also not arguing that Islam is some how more "good" or purer than western world, I am simply saying that our own immorality is so great that we are in no position to point fingers. We are far from worthy enough to be casting any stones; thats my point and thats it. We are not humanitarians, we are serving no greater good. We ruled the world, if it's their turn now then we should just move aside. Otherwise American vanity and it's sense of entitlement are going to be the death of us.

So please explain me the "clear cut reasoning" when they blow up Ahmed Massoud? When they blow up innocent civilians? When they target the Twin Towers on 9/11? Actually, in essence I agree with you, terrorist intentions are rather obvious. Terrorists live to invoke terror and fear among the public. All to gain more and more power.


QUOTEThe seeds of corruption sprout forth from the hearts of man. It is inescapable. The charge I lay at the feet of our society is this: The bureaucrat holds no qualm when he cloaks the corruption and sells it to you as democracy.

Very nice, elegant words yet I do not see what facts and evidence you use to substantiate such assertions.

 

[xcalibur]

I have no quarrel with any of this topic, but i'm posting nonetheless. People have opinions about the way they think the world should be lived. I'm not too bothered about any of this, but to be honest, I hate terrorists.

Why? I think the answers in front of you. All we get out of them is shit because they like nothing better than screaming 'Allah' and before you know it there's half of your colleauges dead. Examples of this? 9/11. Oh, remember the bus in the UK 2 years ago? Yeah.

End statement? Fuck Terrorist and their shit-colord turbans.

This is my opinion. Go on. Feel free to call me racist because they are the only race of scum that i cant stand. All other races are cool. African-American. Japanese. You should be proud that your a part of your race.

You are a fucking dick.
First of all, your assumption that all terrorists are muslim couldn't be any further from the truth.
You don't call the tons of missiles sent into palestine by Isreal to kill leaders of opposing extremist parties but instead killing and destroying the lives of many innocent palestinians terrorrism?
I feel this is just as bad as 9/11 and happens even more frequently.

The definition of Terrorism is:

Terrorism means activities against persons, organizations or property of any nature committed by an individual or individuals acting on behalf of any foreign person or foreign interest: 1. that involve the following or preparation for the following:
a. use or threat of force or violence; or
b. commission or threat of a dangerous act; or
c. commission or threat of an act that interferes with or disrupts an
electronic communication, information, or mechanical system; and

2. when at least one of the following applies:
a. the effect is to intimidate or coerce a government or the civilian
population or any segment thereof, or to disrupt any segment of the
economy; or
b. it appears that the intent is to intimidate or coerce a government,
or further political, ideological, religious, social or economic
objectives or to express (or express opposition to) a philosophy
or ideology.

This is a general expression. It could apply to anyone.
It does not say TERRORISTS ARE SHIT-TURBAN WEARING ARABS WHO SCREAM ALLAHU AKBAR AND BLOW YOU AND THEMSELVES UP OUT OF SPITE.


And one part strikes out to me in that quote

or to express (or express opposition to) a philosophy
or ideology.

Wouldn't you agree that the palestinians who you so tactly defined as shit-wearing allahu akbar screaming terrorist, get killed, murdered and have their lives destroyed on a daily basis. The palestinians also believe that Jerusalem is their holy city and it is occupied by israelians who refuse to even share? Wouldn't you express opposition to that? A group of "infidels" who keep you away from your HOLY land.


Also, you have to understand that Islam glorifies death in for the sake of allah. You have so many young men all wanting to go to heaven and do what is right by their god no matter what it takes and then we have older men who corrupt them and brainwash them into believing that what their doing is right. Thats why most suicide bombers are muslim, because its the only religion that promises you good after a death like that.

Also, I resent the fact that people assume all muslims are violent. How come no one has accepted that every group of people has its extremes? Do all teenagers have unprotected sex and have kids only because there is a high teen pregnancy rate? Are all adults murderers, adulterers, commit fraud, pedofiles, only because there are so many sick people out there?

I have lived my whole life as a muslim and I'm pretty sure that besides praying 5 times a day and not drinking, I don't do things any different than you.


You're just a scared ignorant fool who hasn't done any research into the matter.

QUOTE(Prophet @ Jul 6 2008, 03:41 PM)

Yes I mean that purely figuratively. The Muslim extremist sets a fire because a cartoonist depicted Muhammad (pbuh).

Not the extremist party. Its very clear in our religion that those who curse the prophet should be killed immidiatly.
And those pictures depicting the prophet were extremely offensive.

 

[B-Blue]

I feel so sad reading this topic

Very sad that people think this way, it's not fair at all.

BTW, Thank you Xcalibur, you wrote exactly what I wanted to say.

 

[Eternal Myst]

I feel so sad reading this topic

Very sad that people think this way, it's not fair at all.

BTW, Thank you Xcalibur, you wrote exactly what I wanted to say.

Yeah I know seriously it reminds me of what happened to me last month.

With all these people thinking every Muslim is a terrorist.