Islamaphobia

[A4NoOb]

As some of you more politically-active know, this word (for the syndicate of Canadian Human Rights) describes the hatred and bigotry of people aimed toward the degradation of Islamic camaraderie. Recently, this is shown through the discussions of Islam in Canada who viciously attack Mark Steyn for an article in MacLeans magazine. More precisely, the head of the Canadian Islamic Congress has sued MacLeans magazine on grounds of hate speech and inciting discrimination of the Islamic populous.

Now let me refrain from claiming Canada’s serious denigration of civil rights regarding freedom of speech, but question the premise of this "hate speech". No quote from the article has been singled out in direct relationship with inciting readers to hate the common Islam. No blurp, no opinion and no distortion of facts have been even interpreted as "hate speech". What these prosecutors are describing as "hate speech" are the unequivocal facts presented throughout the article that lead to an irrevocable conclusion. Statistics, percentages, quotes from imams themselves have been taken into this article and it's jurisdiction to put together a relatively accurate statement that Islam is numerically taking over.

No, these people are claiming "hate speech" because MacLeans has refused to produce an editorial in response. Let's put this into perspective, a private media is told that it is obligatory to provide an article from an alternative source. What free speech is there when you are DEMANDED to produce an editorial that isn't under your discretion? Instead of going to many other willing free press such as Toronto Star, Globe & Mail, Calgary Star, National Post or Ottawa Citizen (which they scrupulously did do), they decided to single out MacLeans and force them to post what they wanted. Yes folks, this is Canada for you.

These "moderate, educated scholars in Islam" show their true faces when they directly avoid debates. In the entire time Mark Steyn has been attacked for his article being called a radical, neocon, Islamaphobic, racist, fascist or nazi, (which in themselves are synonymous to hate speech) he has not once declined a free open debate with these aggressors. In a recent TVO debut regarding this fiasco, it became apparent that the option for a debate was declined by these very “prosecutors” (3 students who filed the lawsuit). How peculiar and ironic considering these same people "support" freedom of speech.

In conclusion you may speculate "why is the title 'Islamaphobia'?". It is a hoax, one giant hoax used by these politically correct activists to silence freedom of speech and censor factual evidence. Discrimination (and incitement of it) has become a means to condone factual information in order to placate a certain growing minority. Ultimately it shows that people prefer to be happy and ignorant than knowledgeable. Who cares about the facts, it's discrimination because it's the inconvenient truth!

 

[The Worst]

long post is loooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg

 

[kikuchiyo]

And poorly thought out to boot.

 

[A4NoOb]

And poorly thought out to boot.

Well I was afraid that this was going to be trolled, but what's "poorly thought out" about it. I'm at least supporting it with facts.

 

[Lazycus]

Read kikuchiyo's sig and then consider the merit of his "poorly thought out" comment.

 

[A4NoOb]

So I was using derogatory slang? Where? I'm not even stereotyping.

 

[kikuchiyo]

I usually try not to feed the trolls, but...

I was almost with you until the last few paragraphs. If you don't think Muslims are being discriminated and harassed since 2001, you're obviously not Muslim.

As for "so-called moderate Muslims," you've obviously got an agenda to push. Moderate Muslims are busy being moderate. Lives, families, jobs. You know, the normal stuff.

As for my signature, it's far more valid than your original post.

 

[gizmo_gal]

I'm sorry but what sort of response exactly where you hoping for with this topic?

 

[Hitto]

I usually try not to feed the trolls, but...

I was almost with you until the last few paragraphs. If you don't think Muslims are being discriminated and harassed since 2001, you're obviously not Muslim.

As for "so-called moderate Muslims," you've obviously got an agenda to push. Moderate Muslims are busy being moderate. Lives, families, jobs. You know, the normal stuff.

Now, far be it from me to encourage flamewars or hating your neighbor, but we CANNOT keep playing "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU, YOU HORRIBLE RACIST" when they actually have a point and facts to back it up.
Here in France, the situation is - kinda - under control. We *did* need a law to refrain muslim girls from wearing a scarf in public school and at the same time, that law forbade the jews from wearing kippas, sikhs from wearing turbans, christians from wearing crosses even as medallions, it was a law against proselytism in general. Then, the whole mahomet caricatures didn't cause as much uproar as in denmark or the rest of the world. I *will* admit that I cringe whenever I see a scarfed young girl in the street. As much as when I see one kid and his rabbi father, all dressed in black, during a hot summer day. Fucking superstitions...
I'm against religion as a whole, but I don't think ANYBODY wants to bother the awesome and peaceful Baye Fall Muslims from Senegal, or the gentle, moderate muslims from Indonesia. BUT, when you go to their country, you respect THEIR rules... I have NEVER, EVER seen a miniskirt in Iran or in Gaza. Most other "muslim" countries I visited are much more laid back and westernized, and more than they'd like to admit. (But don't kiss your girlfriend in public!) Is it racist to expect the same from OUR guests? What is racist about hating fundamentalists? What is racist about hating those assholes who cover up their women in burqas and beat them up "because it's allowed and recommended in the coran"?

Now, to make everybody agree on at least SOMEthing : mark steyn is a troll. It's his JOB. He'll say outright disgusting shit (just wiki him) just to make people talk about him and sell some books. But islamic fundies also have their agendas to push. Which they DO.

 

[Panzer Tacticer]

Yawn, and yet again the word racist is applied when it has nothing to do with race, or last time I checked Islam was a religion.

And while I would like to discuss this particular topic in depth, I don't have so much time in my day, to write a post that will only get deleted later.

I'll settle for just saying I have nothing nice to say about this "religion of peace".

I also have nothing nice to say about any spoiled brat special interest group that feels there every facet of their belief is more special than anyone else's.

If they don't want to be ordinary Canadians, let them get out of my country.

I hear the USA is real happy to tolerate their every whim.

 

[Westside]

Yawn, and yet again the word racist is applied when it has nothing to do with race, or last time I checked Islam was a religion.

And while I would like to discuss this particular topic in depth, I don't have so much time in my day, to write a post that will only get deleted later.

I'll settle for just saying I have nothing nice to say about this "religion of peace".

I also have nothing nice to say about any spoiled brat special interest group that feels there every facet of their belief is more special than anyone else's.

If they don't want to be ordinary Canadians, let them get out of my country.

I hear the USA is real happy to tolerate their every whim.

Sorry, but you never have been discriminated as a Muslim before. I have modern views on this religion, I don NOT believe in the holy war and such. I am rather passive actually. However, even then, I have been called a "sand n****" before, just because I have an Islamic name, not because of how I look even. I have been brought up in this religion, and it has heavily influenced my culture. It is no longer just a religion. Back in the Canadian army, soldiers would purposely wear a towel around their head around me and speak pseudo-arabic just to piss me off. My Christian military instructors forced me to say I believe in God and his son Jesus Christ, because I was the only Muslim there. Discrimination or not? You decide.

 

[A4NoOb]

I usually try not to feed the trolls, but...

I was almost with you until the last few paragraphs. If you don't think Muslims are being discriminated and harassed since 2001, you're obviously not Muslim.


And when did I say this? I call Islamaphobia a hoax when it no longer targets genuine religious bigotry and targets the truth and facts. That was why I brought up this issue.


QUOTEAs for "so-called moderate Muslims," you've obviously got an agenda to push. Moderate Muslims are busy being moderate. Lives, families, jobs. You know, the normal stuff.

As for my signature, it's far more valid than your original post.

Your signature is irrelevant if that's what you mean. If I want to name call people then that's fine, but it sounds as though you are justifying people sent to jail for making their own opinion.

 

[Trolly]

Every time you say "Jap" I get to say "Stupid White Bigoted Cracker." As in, "Man I can't read this Jap release!" "Then wait for the Stupid White Bigoted Cracker release in a month, rere."

You may have some deep reason for this, such as the term 'Jap' having a bad history, but as far as I can see it's just a shortening of 'Japanese'. Which part of that is meant to be offensive? If someone called me a Brit, hell I wouldn't care at all. Sorry if I'm getting under your skin, but how is that offensive?

And unfortunately my concentration waned before I finished the first paragraph. All this fighting between countries and all this racism is so pointless, I just don't bother reading about it any more to be truthful. If someone started insulting white people I'd leave them to it tbh, why should I be bothered? It's not as if it's a very personal insult (though I guess you could argue some people take their culture and race personally - not something I particularly understand).

 

[kikuchiyo]

Jap is offensive - there is history behind it - the proper shortening of Japan or Japanese should be JPN. Western people don't understand how minorities are dehumanized, especially during a war.

As for Muslims, I never said I want anyone to go to jail - bigoted idiots like Mark Steyn should be allowed to speak their mind. Like I said, I was WITH you until the last few paragraphs of your original post. The first part said that Macleans shouldn't be singled out, which I fundamentally agree with.

Your last two paragraphs are obviously anti-Muslim, for no good reason, as is your follow up post. When did I say I want anyone to go to jail?

Regarding Panzer Tatics's post, if you find nothing redeemable about Islam, you don't know much about Islam. That's all. But in America, for better or worse, we have freedom of speech - not bowing to every whim like you say. This would be a non-case in the U.S. For better or worse, Canada has hate speech laws - as a society Canada made that decision. Either change the law or move somewhere else, because you don't like the way Canadian society is structured.

 

[Prophet]

I agree Mark Steyn should not be legally silenced, but I wouldn't shed a tear if he and his kind fell ill. To legally silence him would be an action constructed and implicated simply to placate Islamic opponents of his views. This does not beget change, its just an example of a bureaucracy twisting in on itself to accommodate those that would possibly set said bureaucracy a-flame. I love when people like Mark Steyn wave their bigotry in the town square. It only serves to motivate the minority (or oppressed majority) to galvanize. Nothing does a better job of converting the "moderate" into the dually faithful, as does the banter of hate mongers. And yes Steyn is a hate monger, read and watch:

http://vladglebov.com/2008/03/08/mark-stey...uralism-part-i/

He might very well be right, the world might be ripe for a Islam-ification in the coming years. The problem is that he uses terms like "It’s the end of the world as we’ve known it" and empowers division with “The question for today’s Europe is whether the primary identity of their fastest-growing demographic is Muslim or Belgian, Muslim or Dutch, Muslim or French.” He is in turn proposing (without ever out and out saying so) that we do something to stem the coming tide of Islam.

My question is simply this: Why? If Islam is to become the worlds new unified overlord then who are we to stop it? Who are we to even complain? How many years has the western world imposed it's will across the globe? Do we really think we are hated for our overwhelming kindness? No. Collectively we have been terrible shepherds (especially as of late) upon the world stage. And yes the Islamic agenda to follow may be just as despicable and just as epidemically hate inducing, but who are we to talk? If Islam's rein is as inevitable as Steyn touts, than he is not peddling a solution, but rather he is raising a banner and silently calling for blood shed.

I don't personally know how an overwhelming Islamic presence at the table will effect the lives of most people over the world. What I do know is this: I'm a black man in America, it can't get much worst for me and mine.

Edit: "Jap" has many negative connotations attached to it; most of which are rooted in post pearl-harbor propaganda designed to ready the American people for the nations entry into WWII. It was and should still be considered offensive.

 

[A4NoOb]

http://vladglebov.com/2008/03/08/mark-stey...uralism-part-i/

He might very well be right, the world might be ripe for a Islam-ification in the coming years. The problem is that he uses terms like "It’s the end of the world as we’ve known it" and empowers division with “The question for today’s Europe is whether the primary identity of their fastest-growing demographic is Muslim or Belgian, Muslim or Dutch, Muslim or French.” He is in turn proposing (without ever out and out saying so) that we do something to stem the coming tide of Islam.

My question is simply this: Why? If Islam is to become the worlds new unified overlord then who are we to stop it? Who are we to even complain? How many years has the western world imposed it's will across the globe? Do we really think we are hated for our overwhelming kindness? No. Collectively we have been terrible shepherds (especially as of late) upon the world stage. And yes the Islamic agenda to follow may be just as despicable and just as epidemically hate inducing, but who are we to talk? If Islam's rein is as inevitable as Steyn touts, than he is not peddling a solution, but rather he is raising a banner and silently calling for blood shed.

I sincerely hope this opinion is not taken the wrong way as I will not generalize but substantiate with facts. There is enough violent muslims in the world that oppress people for their types of views. Whether you are gay, anti-muslim, or even just a citizen you are a target of extremism. When a teacher calls a teddy bear Mohammad, people riot outside her house screaming death threats. When Pope Benedict quotes 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus, churches are burned and nuns are killed. When a danish cartoon makes a joke, Lebanon is in flames. And what I believe is scarier is that countries like Jordan or Lebanon have a significant portion of people that support extremism http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248

Concordantly if it's not extremism you're afraid of then it's "muslim scholars" seeming to find any type of Islamaphobic speech and prosecuting you for it. Bridgett Bardot fined for 24 thousand dollars for criticizing the slaughter of animals in an Eid Sacrifice. Finnish Blogger was sentenced to two years in jail for his "incitement". Digressing you may blame this on EU Constitutions but these prosecutors are just as much to blame.
http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2008/0...rdot-convicted/
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_s...sh-blogger.html

These are just some of the facts Mark Steyn takes into account when making his opinion. When he was attacked during the TVO debut, I found him NOT to be the biggest bigot out there. If anything he was more tolerant than the Islamic "scholars" who interrupted him and threw snide comments to him under their breath.

 

[Prophet]

There is enough violent muslims in the world that oppress people for their types of views.

How can we even speak of oppression? Last time I checked America was the master of it. You see the only difference between our tactics and their's is this: The Muslim extremist will show you the knife before he brings it to your throat. We on the other hand are more overt in our delivery of the blade. Ask yourself this, which has claimed more lives; The fires set by Islamic extremists or the trade embargoes we use to choke-out the nations that don't fall into line with our views.

 

[Hitto]

Oh, come on, the great american satan is an old, tired and overused troll.
Shut the fuck up, really. Without this "horribly opressive capitalist regime", you wouldn't even be talking shit on the internet.
The reality of it is that most muslim immigrants in decent, liberal democracies fled their SHITTY countries FOR A GODDAMN REASON. And most of the time, the young ones who don't know whether they are french/american/whatever or Algerian/turkish/pick a shitty dictatorship that pretends it's a western liberal democracy are the most fundamentalistic of all. The parents? They're desolate to see the young generation act so spoiled and stupid.

Example? The other day, I see a big mama africa, "normally-veiled", pushing her baby in its cart, and her fully-burqua-veiled-like-the-goddamn-fist-of-the-north-star teenage daughter, and what does the little CUNT say?

"I want my man to come from the bled!" (that would mean maghreb. Tunisia, Morocco, Algeria, Libya... Yeah, great fucking countries with a record of defending human rights and spreading wealth all around for the people!)

There were SO MANY things WRONG with this sentence! first, "I", if you're a strictly religious woman, DOES NOT EXIST! Neither does "Want"! You're a fucking BITCH and that's all you will ever be, deal with it or become an apostate! "My man" meant "my husband", and "to come from the bled" meant SHE NEVER WENT THERE! Else she would realize how good she had it here in europe!

And of course, the big mama said "yeah, right... do that... you'll see..." as she chuckled.

Thing is, as long as coca-cola, television, free speech and rock'n'roll exist, NOTHING can beat capitalism. Get this through your thick, "oh I'm such a rebel, I hate the USA!!!" skulls.

Fucking rebellious kids. It won't score you chicks, I'm telling you right now.

Disclaimer : I went to most of what I call "shitty countries", so I can safely say that they are. Don't take anything for granted. Tap water? HAHA! Phones? HAHA! Toilets? HAHA! Food that isn't rice? MWAHAHA! (on a positive note, they are retrogamers to the max.... Lots of super nintendos in senegal, saudi arabia, and libya as far as I saw them.)

 

[Lazycus]

Jap is offensive - there is history behind it - the proper shortening of Japan or Japanese should be JPN. Western people don't understand how minorities are dehumanized, especially during a war.

There is nothing offensive about using "JAP" as an abbreviation for a game release. For you to equate it to racist hate speech (as you do in your signature) is just silly and shows you really have issues.

Do you have any understanding of world history at all? Do you understand the origins of WWII at all? If "Western people" didn't understand how minorities were dehumanized they sure were given the extreme lessons by the Japanese and Germans in WWII. These blanket statements you make are just laughable. Why do you have such problems with "Western people" and "white(s)"?

 

[Prophet]

Shut the fuck up, really. Without this "horribly opressive capitalist regime", you wouldn't even be talking shit on the internet.

You're logic is so skewed that I almost feel like letting it sit there untouched, certain that anyone who read it would recognize it as ethnocentrism at it's worst. Western civilization has raped the globe. It is then no surprise that it has became the advanced civilization that it is. Our opulent comfort comes at the expense of all those that have been grinded upon, as we moved to secure said opulent comfort. Your logic is flawed. You can't assume that the success of America is independent of the state that much of the world is left in. You can not argue that "Without capitalism" we'd all be in the dark. You are arguing backwards. Is it not possible that without the advent capitalism that the world as a whole would be equally or even more advanced then we are now?

Let me simplify. There are two small settlements: one upstream, one down stream. One day the upstream dwellers decide to build a dam, this will allow them to cultivate a greater span of their own land hence leading to civilization advancement. Now all of a sudden the down stream dwellers start moving into the Upstream settlement. They come openly angered, mad that their land is in shambles; but rather than face death by drought they come to join the upstream settlement. Even as the down-streamers settle into their new lives in the now thriving land of the up-streamers, it is quite apparent that they remain bitter.

This is my question: Would the upstream natives, the builders of the dam that killed their neighbors land -- casting them into drought to raise their own comfort... These upstream natives, would they be right to skip justification of their actions and simply tell those that migrate from downstream, "Shut the fuck up, really. Without this dam you'd still be down stream etching out a living -- There's no water down there."

This would of course make no sense, the up-streamers are the architects of the suffering wrought upon downstream inhabitants. They can not cite said suffering, as the reason for the disenfranchised to be thankful or beholding to them. So, yes maybe if it wasn't for the "horribly oppressive capitalist regime" I wouldn't have Internet access, I'd still be in Africa. Maybe I'd even go to bed a little bit less full, but what I can assure you of is this: The Africa that would exist without the cold grasp on the western world, would be an Africa foreign to us all. The western world is the architect of the suffering wrought upon much of the world. You can not cite said suffering, as the reason for the disenfranchised to be thankful or beholding to your views.

I would touch on the disgusting parts of your post, but my point is made and your lack of care only serves to further punctuate my own argument.