Hardware Hacking Homebrew Feedback Misc Is a Nintendo Switch NVMe mod possible?

[Dominator211]

I don't take it as a knock at all and I really hope both come true one day...
That said, I don't think this would count as "pretty large" tho. Sorry I don't have my switch with me to show it plugged in...

View attachment 306690

this actually helps a bit becuase I have no idea how big a m2 SSD is compared to the switch Lmao

 

[gudenau]

I have not really read the thread, only skimmed so forgive me for what I might have missed.

I did look into adding thunderbolt to the Switch before, it is theoretically possible since there are the two PCI-e interfaces. One has four lanes and the other has a single lane. (This was covered, just being clear.)

What I am not sold on however is what interfaces the Wi-Fi actually connects to. It could be using a single lane on the PCI-e x4 interface to spite us. It could also be using the x1 interface like a sane person would design. The PCI-e stack on the Switch seems reasonable enough to add drivers to, you would likely need to have a chip to exploit the bootrom so you can load off of the NVM-e drive if you write drivers for it, I am pretty sure that the bootrom doesn't have a way to directly boot from a NVM-e device.

I do have some very interesting ideas for things that could be done if we can access the PCI-e lanes, I have asked around about it a little before and it doesn't seem to be a well traveled path.

Thunderbolt would be a bit of a pain because of how hard it is to get the driver chips and the documentation for said chips; last I checked was about 6 months ago so this might have changed by now. Would be very interesting if you could make a thunderbolt dock that has something stupid like a 10Gb ethernet card in it.

 

[esmith13]

this actually helps a bit becuase I have no idea how big a m2 SSD is compared to the switch Lmao

this 2280 would extend about 15mm above the top of the switch I believe. A shorter M.2 drive would be completely undetectable from a front view of the console. So long as you're not an 800 pound gorilla, your hands shouldn't be large enough to touch the drive while playing either since across the horizontal plane it only covers the center 26mm of the console (the PCB is 4mm wider than the M.2 drive itself).

 

[Dominator211]

I have not really read the thread, only skimmed so forgive me for what I might have missed.

I did look into adding thunderbolt to the Switch before, it is theoretically possible since there are the two PCI-e interfaces. One has four lanes and the other has a single lane. (This was covered, just being clear.)

What I am not sold on however is what interfaces the Wi-Fi actually connects to. It could be using a single lane on the PCI-e x4 interface to spite us. It could also be using the x1 interface like a sane person would design. The PCI-e stack on the Switch seems reasonable enough to add drivers to, you would likely need to have a chip to exploit the bootrom so you can load off of the NVM-e drive if you write drivers for it, I am pretty sure that the bootrom doesn't have a way to directly boot from a NVM-e device.

I do have some very interesting ideas for things that could be done if we can access the PCI-e lanes, I have asked around about it a little before and it doesn't seem to be a well traveled path.

Thunderbolt would be a bit of a pain because of how hard it is to get the driver chips and the documentation for said chips; last I checked was about 6 months ago so this might have changed by now. Would be very interesting if you could make a thunderbolt dock that has something stupid like a 10Gb ethernet card in it.

I like this, this is good. This was an unforeseen alternative to what I am recommending here if we can tap the PCIe Lanes you can do a lot more than just using an NVMe drive on the switch. Adding thunderbolt would also be theoretically possible, that just gets me hyped to think about it. The Tech is there, we just gotta figure out how to use it. As for the Wifi chip, CTCtaer is pretty certain that is being used on the x1 connection. I would say the word is about as good as any for right now. You do bring up an interesting point with the Bootrom on the chip. There would definitely need to be modifications done software side for this to work. My buddy mentioned and reminded me that there would probably need to be a marrying procedure for the switch to even recognize the SSD. I guess that would come after modifying the bottom. This modification could also be put into a CFW no? However with all that I still do believe it to be possible, just look at all we have done so far. (Vita Games on Switch)

this 2280 would extend about 15mm above the top of the switch I believe. A shorter M.2 drive would be completely undetectable from a front view of the console. So long as you're not an 800 pound gorilla, your hands shouldn't be large enough to touch the drive while playing either since across the horizontal plane it only covers the center 26mm of the console (the PCB is 4mm wider than the M.2 drive itself).

This is also good to know, I'm not saying one couldn't shoehorn 2280 in there but I was thinking 2260 at the largest.



I know this is a lot to read guys and I'm super duper sorry about that, just trying to be thorough.

 

[gudenau]

I like this, this is good. This was an unforeseen alternative to what I am recommending here if we can tap the PCIe Lanes you can do a lot more than just using an NVMe drive on the switch. Adding thunderbolt would also be theoretically possible, that just gets me hyped to think about it. The Tech is there, we just gotta figure out how to use it. As for the Wifi chip, CTCtaer is pretty certain that is being used on the x1 connection. I would say the word is about as good as any for right now. You do bring up an interesting point with the Bootrom on the chip. There would definitely need to be modifications done software side for this to work. My buddy mentioned and reminded me that there would probably need to be a marrying procedure for the switch to even recognize the SSD. I guess that would come after modifying the bottom. This modification could also be put into a CFW no? However with all that I still do believe it to be possible, just look at all we have done so far. (Vita Games on Switch)


This is also good to know, I'm not saying one couldn't shoehorn 2280 in there but I was thinking 2260 at the largest.



I know this is a lot to read guys and I'm super duper sorry about that, just trying to be thorough.

Yeah you would just need to add a driver and tweek the FS implementation to use the NVM-e drive instead. The PCI-e driver stuff looks fairly normal, so a driver port shouldn't be super hard. Knowing Nintendo there will be something weird that makes the software a huge pain though.

 

[Dominator211]

Yeah you would just need to add a driver and tweek the FS implementation to use the NVM-e drive instead. The PCI-e driver stuff looks fairly normal, so a driver port shouldn't be super hard. Knowing Nintendo there will be something weird that makes the software a huge pain though.

I dont know anything about that for certain. We wont know until we get to that point.

 

[gudenau]

I dont know anything about that for certain. We wont know until we get to that point.

Horizion is pretty modular I have have done some research into this, I am saying things based on my observations and knowledge of computers.

 

[Dominator211]

Horizion is pretty modular I have have done some research into this, I am saying things based on my observations and knowledge of computers.

As am I, I think the next stage in the progression of switch modifications is figuring out how to tap into that PCI-E Lane. I think it would be on the same level as overclocking. We've deduced that its possible, very difficult yet possible I guess the next step is actually doing the modification.

 

[gudenau]

As am I, I think the next stage in the progression of switch modifications is figuring out how to tap into that PCI-E Lane. I think it would be on the same level as overclocking. We've deduced that its possible, very difficult yet possible I guess the next step is actually doing the modification.

The hard part will be getting the traces exposed.

Theoretically we could use SATA as well, but I don't exactly remember what pins are used for what and the capabilities of the pin muxers.

 

[Dominator211]

The hard part will be getting the traces exposed.

Theoretically we could use SATA as well, itbut I don't exactly remember what pins are used for what and the capabilities of the pin muxers.

I got a buddy of mine in Scotland who does a lot of iPhone board work I explained it to him sent him the screenshots of my conversation with CTCaer and he said it's very much do able with some possible work around depending on how some things turn out. In the AM over there he is going to pull out a board and test it. If anyone wants a more technical answer I will be happy to give it.

 

[gudenau]

I got a buddy of mine in Scotland who does a lot of iPhone board work I explained it to him sent him the screenshots of my conversation with CTCaer and he said it's very much do able with some possible work around depending on how some things turn out. In the AM over there he is going to pull out a board and test it. If anyone wants a more technical answer I will be happy to give it.

I didn't say impossible. The traces might not even be exposed by the substrate too. If that's the case then it's next to impossible.

 

[Dominator211]

I didn't say impossible. The traces might not even be exposed by the substrate too. If that's the case then it's next to impossible.

From what CTCaer has told me it doesn't sound like the case. We will know in several hours hopefully. Maybe my Buddy can even run a dry test for us

 

[evil_santa]

whether an nvme mod works in the end is an open question. but we are learning something and that alone should drive us.
Ctcaer also mentioned that with an nvme port it would also be possible to connect an external graphics card. crazy but awesome.

So I'll put together what I know about it.
The switch uses the Tx1 chip like the Nvidia Jetson Tx1.
Data sheets exist for this.
Datasheet

balika also has all the board layers of the erista/light switch on its website. there you could follow the traces.
@KreativDax did the work for it. thank you again for that.
http://balika011.hu/switch/

probably there are still some interesting things to find in the leak...

But Ctcaer is like a wiki for switch.

 

[gudenau]

whether an nvme mod works in the end is an open question. but we are learning something and that alone should drive us.
Ctcaer also mentioned that with an nvme port it would also be possible to connect an external graphics card. crazy but awesome.

So I'll put together what I know about it.
The switch uses the Tx1 chip like the Nvidia Jetson Tx1.
Data sheets exist for this.
Datasheet

balika also has all the board layers of the erista/light switch on its website. there you could follow the traces.
@KreativDax did the work for it. thank you again for that.
http://balika011.hu/switch/

probably there are still some interesting things to find in the leak...

But Ctcaer is like a wiki for switch.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo uses a custom substrate, if true the pinouts are different.

 

[evil_santa]

I'm pretty sure Nintendo uses a custom substrate, if true the pinouts are different.

Yes, the PCB with its traces is of course different from that of the Jetson. but I can not imagine that the GPU pins were changed.

If anyone wants a more technical answer I will be happy to give it

I'm very interested on a technical answer.

 

[Dominator211]

whether an nvme mod works in the end is an open question. but we are learning something and that alone should drive us.
Ctcaer also mentioned that with an nvme port it would also be possible to connect an external graphics card. crazy but awesome.

So I'll put together what I know about it.
The switch uses the Tx1 chip like the Nvidia Jetson Tx1.
Data sheets exist for this.
Datasheet

balika also has all the board layers of the erista/light switch on its website. there you could follow the traces.
@KreativDax did the work for it. thank you again for that.
http://balika011.hu/switch/

probably there are still some interesting things to find in the leak...

But Ctcaer is like a wiki for switch.

I have been in contact with him all day. When I have the time I will consolidate and post some of our conversations as long as I get his permission

 

[Dominator211]

Yes, the PCB with its traces is of course different from that of the Jetson. but I can not imagine that the GPU pins were changed.


I'm very interested on a technical answer.

I will do a follow up post tonight discussing my findings

 

[gudenau]

Yes, the PCB with its traces is of course different from that of the Jetson. but I can not imagine that the GPU pins were changed.


I'm very interested on a technical answer.

The GPU is on the die, it wouldn't be exposed via pins on the chip.

 

[Dominator211]

The GPU is on the die, it wouldn't be exposed via pins on the chip.

Alright I guess it’s on me to explain everything that know right now to be “Fact”

Firstly I know with almost no doubt that the PCIe x4 lane exists.

Second, in order to get access to these lanes one would need to desolder the Tegra X1 and find (I believe) 2 specific pins. This was told to me by CTCaer himself.

Next one would have to run special wires from those 2* pins to outside the socket. Once this is done l, you can re-solder the Tegra X1. This is already proving to be not for the faint of heart. Not all hope is last however I have a good friend of mine in Scotland who is an expert on board level repairs. I explained it to him and sent him the messages between CTCaer and myself and he was able to make sense of it. He said it would be very straight forward for him to do and he is curious enough that he is going to start looking for Switch boards that he has in order to test with. I will update here when I have news on his findings.

Once you have these wires out from underneath the X1. A NVMe slot will need to be soldered to the ends of them. This is also pretty straightforward soldering wise. (At least to my friend). Then you have a working NVMe slot connected to your Switch!

I also have information regarding the software side if things. For at least the start all of the possible outcomes for what could be connected to this slot will have to be done through Linux.

At least for the storage of games on HOS according to CTCaer it is damn near impossible. The amount of work needed to be done in order to get such a thing to work in HOS would require “a month of work or more” to get working. Not to mention these changes would need to be tested and rolled out for EVERY. SINGLE. VERSION. if HOS in existence. From 1.0.0 to 14.1.1. They would need to be tested and rolled out. This in itself is a insane amount of work. This is all according to CTCaer. After this, I’ll be honest the conversation went off the rails a little bit and I will leave it at that. I hope to release all of the correspondence with CTCaer with his permission so stay tuned for that.

If you have any questions or misc items feel free to ask me and I will do my best to try answer them or have them answered!

I hope this is what you were looking for @evil_santa

 

[gudenau]

Alright I guess it’s on me to explain everything that know right now to be “Fact”

Firstly I know with almost no doubt that the PCIe x4 lane exists.

Second, in order to get access to these lanes one would need to desolder the Tegra X1 and find (I believe) 2 specific pins. This was told to me by CTCaer himself.

Next one would have to run special wires from those 2* pins to outside the socket. Once this is done l, you can re-solder the Tegra X1. This is already proving to be not for the faint of heart. Not all hope is last however I have a good friend of mine in Scotland who is an expert on board level repairs. I explained it to him and sent him the messages between CTCaer and myself and he was able to make sense of it. He said it would be very straight forward for him to do and he is curious enough that he is going to start looking for Switch boards that he has in order to test with. I will update here when I have news on his findings.

Once you have these wires out from underneath the X1. A NVMe slot will need to be soldered to the ends of them. This is also pretty straightforward soldering wise. (At least to my friend). Then you have a working NVMe slot connected to your Switch!

I also have information regarding the software side if things. For at least the start all of the possible outcomes for what could be connected to this slot will have to be done through Linux.

At least for the storage of games on HOS according to CTCaer it is damn near impossible. The amount of work needed to be done in order to get such a thing to work in HOS would require “a month of work or more” to get working. Not to mention these changes would need to be tested and rolled out for EVERY. SINGLE. VERSION. if HOS in existence. From 1.0.0 to 14.1.1. They would need to be tested and rolled out. This in itself is a insane amount of work. This is all according to CTCaer. After this, I’ll be honest the conversation went off the rails a little bit and I will leave it at that. I hope to release all of the correspondence with CTCaer with his permission so stay tuned for that.

If you have any questions or misc items feel free to ask me and I will do my best to try answer them or have them answered!

I hope this is what you were looking for @evil_santa

PCI-e x4 requires 4 pairs of data lines for both directions plus a pair for the clock at minimum. So that is at least 18 wires.

All of the power ones can be derived elsewhere, the detection, SM and JTAG pins I am unsure of.