i'm learning japanese, sharing what i'm learning!

[Bob Evil]

test84, what is your name? ... I'll write it in katakana for you.

 

[solarsaturn9]

I was solving an exercise from Genki and I got a problem with Katakana:
how do you write these in Katakana: (I was going to write my name)
Ai
Di
Gh
Dr
with katakana? (seperately)

Ai = ??
for Di it depends on the pronunciation of the word it is being used in
(ex: Dai sound as in Diagonal, or Di as in Digital, etc... )
for the Dee sound = ??
for Gh it depends on the pronunciation of the word it is being used in
(ex: ghost, and ghastly would be written using different Katakana, ???? and ????? )
for the Dr sound it depends as well
(ex: Drain and Drama.... ???? and ??? )
in general for Dr it would be ? followed by an R/L sounding katakana ( ????????? )

You cant really write out two letters and assign them katakana because it depends on what the context of the letters. Katakana is an alphabet to either emphasize words originally from the Japanese language or to write foreign loan words like ????? ( arubaito ) which means a part time job coming from the German word Arbeiter ( ? not sure how to spell the German word )

 

[Bob Evil]

You cant really write out two letters and assign them katakana because it depends on what the context of the letters. Katakana is an alphabet to either emphasize words originally from the Japanese language or to write foreign loan words like ????? ( arubaito ) which means a part time job coming from the German word Arbeiter ( ? not sure how to spell the German word )

I tried to tell him that

 

[kikuchiyo]

You cant really write out two letters and assign them katakana because it depends on what the context of the letters. Katakana is an alphabet to either emphasize words originally from the Japanese language or to write foreign loan words like ????? ( arubaito ) which means a part time job coming from the German word Arbeiter ( ? not sure how to spell the German word )

I tried to tell him that

Well, that said there are two footnotes:
A) It's English romaji that's irregular, not katakana (that was unclear from the posts). Katakana is super regular (that's why, as I said elsewhere, it's easier for me to read katakana Bangla as opposed to romanized Bangla).

B) If you live here, katakana is for a lot of different reasons; some people like signing their names in katakana because it's the easiest to write (an ex was like this). It is often used in novels and mail to not to emphasize, but to break up would otherwise be a long string of hiragana.

 

[solarsaturn9]

You cant really write out two letters and assign them katakana because it depends on what the context of the letters. Katakana is an alphabet to either emphasize words originally from the Japanese language or to write foreign loan words like ????? ( arubaito ) which means a part time job coming from the German word Arbeiter ( ? not sure how to spell the German word )

I tried to tell him that

Well, that said there are two footnotes:
A) It's English romaji that's irregular, not katakana (that was unclear from the posts). Katakana is super regular (that's why, as I said elsewhere, it's easier for me to read katakana Bangla as opposed to romanized Bangla).

B) If you live here, katakana is for a lot of different reasons; some people like signing their names in katakana because it's the easiest to write (an ex was like this). It is often used in novels and mail to not to emphasize, but to break up would otherwise be a long string of hiragana.

I can dig that. Katakana for names is also easier to read because sometimes handwriting + kanji = chicken scratch..... sometimes even native speakers have a hard time reading chicken scratch kanji =P

 

[Unchi-san]

I can dig that. Katakana for names is also easier to read because sometimes handwriting + kanji = chicken scratch..... sometimes even native speakers have a hard time reading chicken scratch kanji =P
[/quote]

I totally understand. I can't read my mom's writing alot of the time. I prefer big, bubbly hiragana and kanji rather than "caligraphy"-looking words.

 

[Jarvik7]

The reason they picked tsu was that there is no partical that you write as tsu.

Basicly the reason for its exsitense was that the japanese realized that in a syllabary system you cant write long consonants and since japanese use it there was a need to add this to the writing language , this need only arrouse as katakana(as it was intreduced as an official writing system before hiragana { used by females only at that time}) became an official writing system . The problem was that by the time that katakana was considered an official writing language the common solution was to write a tsu to indicate a long consonants fallows .

It probably would have been different if it was up to the administration to decide what to use to indicate that.

That's some nice reasoning, but it's wrong. It was written as a ? and later as ? because the ? sound is what normally triggers a geminate in compound words. Take for example these:

?? ????????=??????? (this also undergoes ??)
????????????
???????????????????

The premodern writers were simply writing out the separate ???? for each ?? with the ?? shorthand. The shrinking of it to ? is a much later development.

I haven't taken the time to search my ???? but I have an inkling that ?? lacks geminate sounds altogether and that they are a carryover from Chinese. Any/most exceptions to the above are probably a result of borrowing/coining after the use of ? was established as general practice for geminates. There are many other examples of pre-modern ?? usage not being phonetic by sticking very closely to the grammar. Japanese grammar actually became less logical (in that much was hidden) due to the ???? & post-WWII reformations that made reading itself simpler.

Keep in mind that Japanese never had an "official standard" of any sort until the late 19th century. The closest thing would be writing in classical Chinese, which was what was used for official documents of state for the majority of Japan's history. Writing in the vernacular (aka Japanese) was the reserve of bored aristocratic women and poets up until the ????, at which point some ?? started writing fiction. The writing of Japanese varied widely person to person (see "hentaigana" on wikipedia or similar for one example).

 

[Zombie_X]

I took Japanese for 4 1/2 years and I ain't that good at it.

 

[Raisingod]

The reason they picked tsu was that there is no partical that you write as tsu.

Basicly the reason for its exsitense was that the japanese realized that in a syllabary system you cant write long consonants and since japanese use it there was a need to add this to the writing language , this need only arrouse as katakana(as it was intreduced as an official writing system before hiragana { used by females only at that time}) became an official writing system . The problem was that by the time that katakana was considered an official writing language the common solution was to write a tsu to indicate a long consonants fallows .

It probably would have been different if it was up to the administration to decide what to use to indicate that.

That's some nice reasoning, but it's wrong. It was written as a ? and later as ? because the ? sound is what normally triggers a geminate in compound words. Take for example these:

?? ????????=??????? (this also undergoes ??)
????????????
???????????????????

The premodern writers were simply writing out the separate ???? for each ?? with the ?? shorthand. The shrinking of it to ? is a much later development.

I haven't taken the time to search my ???? but I have an inkling that ?? lacks geminate sounds altogether and that they are a carryover from Chinese. Any/most exceptions to the above are probably a result of borrowing/coining after the use of ? was established as general practice for geminates. There are many other examples of pre-modern ?? usage not being phonetic by sticking very closely to the grammar. Japanese grammar actually became less logical (in that much was hidden) due to the ???? & post-WWII reformations that made reading itself simpler.

Keep in mind that Japanese never had an "official standard" of any sort until the late 19th century. The closest thing would be writing in classical Chinese, which was what was used for official documents of state for the majority of Japan's history. Writing in the vernacular (aka Japanese) was the reserve of bored aristocratic women and poets up until the ????, at which point some ?? started writing fiction. The writing of Japanese varied widely person to person (see "hentaigana" on wikipedia or similar for one example).

My old japanese teacher reasoning not mine but thanks for the explantion.

 

[yzx571]

??

?????????????????

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[kikuchiyo]

??

?????????????????

?????????????????????????

I think you mean ?? not ??
I often make that mistake when typing quickly.

 

[Helix94]

How do you guys type in these characters? Is there some type of English AND Japanese keyboard?

 

[Cermage]

How do you guys type in these characters? Is there some type of English AND Japanese keyboard?

as far as i know, the japanese use a keyboard with the english lettering as well

for windows you can install the japanese language pack which will allow you to write out the romaji in word or another program and it will change it into characters as you type it.

 

[Vidboy10]

A person from Iran wants to learn Japanese?
What a small world.

 

[Digeman]

A person from Iran wants to learn Japanese?
What a small world.

Because people from Iran can't have the same interest as other people around the world right? Their only interest should be bellydancing yea?

(note the sarcasm)

 

[Vidboy10]

A person from Iran wants to learn Japanese?
What a small world.

Because people from Iran can't have the same interest as other people around the world right?

They can.
Just I find it awkward how somebody in the middle east could Like japan.
And having a member from Iran on the Temp is kinda awkward when you think about it.

 

[warbird]

I haven't taken the time to search my ???? but I have an inkling that ?? lacks geminate sounds altogether and that they are a carryover from Chinese. Any/most exceptions to the above are probably a result of borrowing/coining after the use of ? was established as general practice for geminates. There are many other examples of pre-modern ?? usage not being phonetic by sticking very closely to the grammar. Japanese grammar actually became less logical (in that much was hidden) due to the ???? & post-WWII reformations that made reading itself simpler.

Never studies classical japanese, but I'm pretty sure sure gemination existed long before modern times in Japanese. E.g. when conjugating verbs, like kiru -> kitta. Unless I'm misunderstanding you..

 

[test84]

Can I plz haz teh topic back?

 

[iPikachu]

topic is yours?

Just I find it awkward how somebody in the middle east could Like japan.
And having a member from Iran on the Temp is kinda awkward when you think about it.

how would it be awkward?

 

[OmerMe]

topic is yours?

Just I find it awkward how somebody in the middle east could Like japan.
And having a member from Iran on the Temp is kinda awkward when you think about it.

how would it be awkward?

Haven't you heard? Everyone in the middle east live in the desert, rides on a camel, lives in a tent and does nothing but smoke and trade women.

Or whatever people think about the middle east.