How do you feel about abortion?

[spotanjo3]

Actually I agree, but I get the feeling this was a sarcastic comment.

I know but I am saying it anyway. LOL!

And this thread is no point of return. It needed to be end. More drama. Jeez!

 

[deinonychus71]

In summary there is only one thing agree,

We should ABORT this thread. It makes me loose hope in people


Don't waste your time man. These people are crazy, there is no arguing with people like this, it is a waste of time. I am thankful that I live in Chile and that even though there are a lot of socialist here, they are not as insane as these people.

Some people I know are literally afraid of Americans because of how cold they are, some are armed to the teeth and others are satanic abortists pieces of shit (the way people see them here).

Cheers.

I'm born and raised European. European countries legalized abortion. No point spitting your hate on Americans for that. I know that's the popular thing to do in the black & white world we live in today, but that just makes a very poor argument.

Your whole argumentation is "morality", but this "morality" is basically a repeat from a book that you read (or not) and decided that it was truth for everyone and there was no way it could be questioned. And that weights nothing for whoever thinks pragmatically.
Morality has changed, the world changes as it's freeing itself from superstition, and abortion is now considered a right for women.

Science isn't just another religion, it is backed up by facts and understanding of our world. Your beliefs however are backed up by obscurantism.
Science proves that a fetus isn't capable to feel and isn't a person till much later during pregnancy. Facts, which means it can't just be countered by opinion, even less a religious one.

There you have it. You can still choose to insult people who aren't adopting your views, but you're barely more than a preacher at this point.

Don't cry in a few decades when the world will be so overpopulated that actual people will die everyday of disease, lack of proper food and weather conditions because you'd rather focus on the yet-to-live rather than the living.
Whole species need saving right now, that's a critical battle to fight if you're looking for something to bitch at against Americans and the occidental world.


One final thing. NOBODY takes abortion lightly, as a casual thing. It is NEVER a "GREAT" experience, a great thing to do. It is always painful. But it's sometimes necessary.

 

[nashismo]

What you think is wrong and what I think is wrong doesn't necessarily have to be the same thing. People disagree on right and wrong all the time.

There is right and there is wrong, there is love and there is hate, there is evil and there is goodness. This has been since the beginning, is not a matter of "opinion". Only hypocrites go around the bushes and look for reasons to excuse their unmerciful acts.

 

[Xzi]

You know what? I was thinking the same thing this morning! I mean, I would be OK with someone admitting something is wrong, and yet CHOOSING to follow that path (maybe a satanist would fit that) accepting the consequences. What pisses me off is people trying to bend whats wrong and excusing it like is OK and a good thing.

Necessity =/= 'good thing.' This is why I think pro-lifers are out of touch with reality. They literally believe people be out here getting abortions every other day because it feels good.

Ultimately I think both sides are just trying to be empathetic, but we disagree on who deserves the empathy. Pro-choice people empathize with the teenage mother who can't afford a child and doesn't want to go through childbirth, whereas pro-life people empathize with the fetus and prioritize its rights over the mother's, often regardless of circumstance.

 

[nashismo]

Necessity =/= 'good thing.' This is why I think pro-lifers are out of touch with reality. They literally believe people be out here getting abortions every other day because it feels good.

Ultimately I think both sides are just trying to be empathetic, but we disagree on who deserves the empathy. Pro-choice people empathize with the teenage mother who can't afford a child and doesn't want to go through childbirth, whereas pro-life people empathize with the fetus and prioritize its rights over the mother's, often regardless of circumstance.

I child to be, a person to be, wether he/she suffers or not when he/she is aborted is not what I discuss (I know you are not speaking of that now but still). The point is that the person to be, has all the right to exist as anyone else, to experience this life for good or for worse, we were given this opportunity and I think they should have that right too.

 

[sarkwalvein]

One final thing. NOBODY takes abortion lightly, as a casual thing. It is NEVER a "GREAT" experience, a great thing to do. It is always painful. But it's sometimes necessary.

That's what I fear actually. People thinking of it like just a walk in the park, not something to think about seriously, not something that should be discussed. I don't like that easy going way out of people nowadays that refuse to think about things seriously and discuss things.

TBH, I don't like the idea of abortion but I think it should be legal, making it illegal makes things worse really. But I fear people trivialize it.

 

[Phenj]

It is ok, 3 months limit.

 

[notimp]

I child to be, a person to be, wether he/she suffers or not when he/she is aborted is not what I discuss (I know you are not speaking of that now but still). The point is that the person to be, has all the right to exist as anyone else, to experience this life for good or for worse, we were given this opportunity and I think they should have that right too.

And this right is exclusive and should exist regardless of potential consequences, outcome, suffering, social preassure - from the moment of conception?

In europe this isn't even a point of question any longer. We gave you the last six months before birth - then your argument counts. Before that - we dont act by a single word of what you are proposing.

As entire societies by the way.

I'm growing tired of always having to explain to deranged americans, that their believes are ancient - compared to the entire rest of the developed world.

If I'm allowed to bring in our societal standards - I pronounce everyone even questioning the need for abortion rights a radical nutter, and call it a day - because that would be how the discussion goes over in most of the civilized world.

No FOX news where I'm from, I'm afraid. No Gretchen Whatchamacallit, and far less old men wanting to control young womens sex life, by telling them to look at the conservative blonde on TV. Not even one pitcher of sweet peach tea if I'm honest. We hate that stuff.

No school shootings either, I might add, we dont give assault rifles to minors.

 

[sarkwalvein]

If I'm allowed to bring in our societal standards - I pronounce everyone even questioning the need for abortion rights a radical nutter, and call it a day - because that would be how the discussion goes over in most of the civilized world.

That's not a discussion. Discussions should always exist in a civilized world, otherwise it's just a totalitarian echo chamber dystopia.

 

[notimp]

Morals dont replace rational thought. Thats the end of discussion.

People trying to win this on moral grounds - simply cant. Religion says 'its a sin'. They cant win "more better" on moral grounds. Now half of the people in here try to do "mo better", by saying - but I'm more liberal, I allow it in the case of rape.

Is that a discussion?

And still based on humanistic considerations, you tell those people - to go suck on their morals - we'll still do whats the right thing to do here. As an educated people actually writing laws (Which I'm not, come to think of it.. ). Not based on what any moral position, or god, or their feelings want us to do.

People have to learn, that "morals" are not what should guide judgement, and if this is the first time they are presented with that thought, so be it. Ever trying to educate folks.

They can fiddle around moral reasoning until the sun goes down, we are not changing abortion law, based on those notions.

At least not in the civilized world. And if the US wants to become more like the middle east - so be it. Lets make friends with China then. Leave them to their FOX news.
--

Here is what morals are at the end of the day.

Social guidelines on how people should behave in the opinion of a community. Most often, so the community can replicate or grow bigger as a result.

Church saying that birth control and abortion is sin again? Guess what - they gain a member for life with every new child that is born into their communities. Huh. Quick - ask the man with the vow to never have sex in his life what to do with my child to be. Huh. He'll ask his four pro lifer friends, to give me a Powerpoint on the other options I'd have as a women unsure if she is ready to take on the responsibilities of motherhood.

At what point do you say eff those morals, I'm doing whats right instead? (Give women an actual opportunity to decide, give them options (legal), give them assistance if they request it, give them privacy as well. Also protect the rights of the unborn child (not a legal person), after a reasonable amount of time. Don't make considering an abortion an absolute (SIN! murder!). Minimize harm. For everyone, not just the child.)

 

[sarkwalvein]

You're missing the point. What I told you, just another one of my fears in these times, is that you should not ban or cut out discussions, the only thing you do when you cut discussions abruptly without reaching a conclusion that convinces the parts is to alienate people.

If you put yourself on a high pedestal and avoid talking of topics you consider obvious, those "uncivilized" people you cut discussion with grow in number and grow disconformed, and thus even in this beautiful "civilized" Europe e.g. the amount of anti-vac idiots grow strong every day. Good work on the let them talk avoid discussion policy.

 

[Deleted member 412537]

Alongside parenthood, society should also embrace/invest more in tubal ligation and getting a vasectomy. So that perhaps the negative effects of abortion can be put to rest. But no, the whole world would rather pick and choose what's right or wrong. Wonderful. :/

 

[nashismo]

Morals dont replace rational thought. Thats the end of discussion.

People trying to win this on moral grounds - simply cant. Religion says 'its a sin'. They cant win "more better" on moral grounds. Now half of the people in here try to do "mo better", by saying - but I'm more liberal, I allow it in the case of rape.

Is that a discussion?

And still based on humanistic considerations, you tell those people - to go suck on their morals - we'll still do whats the right thing to do here. As an educated people actually writing laws (Which I'm not, come to think of it.. ). Not based on what any moral position, or god, or their feelings want us to do.

People have to learn, that "morals" are not what should guide judgement, and if this is the first time they are presented with that thought, so be it. Ever trying to educate folks.

They can fiddle around moral reasoning until the sun goes down, we are not changing abortion law, based on those notions.

At least not in the civilized world. And if the US wants to become more like the middle east - so be it. Lets make friends with China then. Leave them to their FOX news.
--

Here is what morals are at the end of the day.

Social guidelines on how people should behave in the opinion of a community. Most often, so the community can replicate or grow bigger as a result.

Church saying that birth control and abortion is sin again? Guess what - they gain a member for life with every new child that is born into their communities. Huh. Quick - ask the man with the vow to never have sex in his life what to do with my child to be. Huh. He'll ask his four pro lifer friends, to give me a Powerpoint on the other options I'd have as a women unsure if she is ready to take on the responsibilities of motherhood.

At what point do you say eff those morals, I'm doing whats right instead? (Give women an actual opportunity to decide, give them options (legal), give them assistance if they request it, give them privacy as well. Also protect the rights of the unborn child (not a legal person), after a reasonable amount of time. Don't make considering an abortion an absolute (SIN! murder!). Minimize harm.)

Aren't you from Japan? Also, I am not an american, I am south american, I am chilean, it is there in my flag. You hide yourself like all hypocrites do on flags that are not yours, and you hardly now how to write in proper english.

I respect my english bros, so I try and write discernible sentences at least, and also try not littering the thread with walls of text, which seem to be your expertise.

All your walls of texts are full of stereotypes and pre-conceive notions of realities that exist only in your brain.

 

[FAST6191]

One final thing. NOBODY takes abortion lightly, as a casual thing. It is NEVER a "GREAT" experience, a great thing to do. It is always painful. But it's sometimes necessary.

I am going to have to be the dissent here. It is a procedure I assign about as much moral turpitude to as having a filling or something -- would have been better had you not gobbled all those sweets but easy enough to sort so why make a big deal? As far as being painful that might depend upon the method and timeframe, but a chemical one I can see being no big deal at all.

 

[notimp]

Also, here is your prospect sample case, you were missing so far.

Young teen gets pregnant, because her boyfriend wanted sex and so did she. Her boyfriends parents offer to pay for the abortion, because they have bigger plans for their boy. Her father will call her a slut for the first six months after giving birth. For the first year, if it isnt a boy. Her neighbors start talking as soon as her belly starts to grow - and really, what if the father doesnt accept responsibility - I mean she a young single mother? At that age? Grandmother died last year. Goodbye to your notions of getting a higher education, the money is not there.

And now think about our uneducated friends in here, championing the notion of "but I am pro life" and also "I never needed a higher education" and "teenage girls should fuck less".

I mean - what discussion?

Just because FOX news tells that, that pro life is good - it doesnt make the actual issue at hand less problematic.

So how do you deal with that?

By building "morality councils" that decide in each case if a women is allowed to have an abortion?

By asking rape victims if they have been raped sufficiently?

By making abortions illegal in your state?

Eff this. Watch less FOX news folks. Thats your solution right there.

Oh and what a wonderful baby it could have been. Pet hair. Pinch cheek. Thank you for your wonderful morals. They've added so much flavor.

 

[sarkwalvein]

I think you are missing a little thing, most the people you're discussing don't even live in s country where FOX news even exists. I don't know why you go once and again to the FOX rhetoric.

PS: and the other guy, ad hominem kills your credibility.

 

[orangy57]

I don't know why anybody here even gets into arguments about this, like most of the people on this forum are dudes anyway so why would a woman getting rid of a fetus even affect you? It's the woman's choice whether to keep a baby or not. That clump of cells fetus has no rights until it can actually be alive and form a thought, it's literally the equivalent to a house plant for the first 21 weeks of gestation. The argument against abortion is just a huge circlejerk backed up by zero facts or evidence.

 

[FAST6191]

I don't know why anybody here even gets into arguments about this, like most of the people on this forum are dudes anyway so why would a woman getting rid of a fetus even affect you? It's the woman's choice whether to keep a baby or not. That clump of cells fetus has no rights until it can actually be alive and form a thought, it's literally the equivalent to a house plant for the first 21 weeks of gestation. The argument against abortion is just a huge circlejerk backed up by zero facts or evidence.

While you and I might agree on timeframes and rationales thereof then if it is an issue of morality, and while I will ultimately dismiss any moral concerns from the basic early stage act there is still plenty of scope to initially ask the question, then anybody can form an opinion on it and engage in debate. Such is generally how this all works. I much prefer if people bring evidence or a consistent line of logic to the debate rather than going with emotion or "just me" but hey.

"has no rights until it can actually be alive and form a thought"
Fetal abuse cases can come fairly early on. I will have to look up the specific timeframes but it need not be tied to abortion timeframes.

 

[DRAGONBALLVINTAGE]

yeah, you do. Because abortion isn't after X weeks (depends a little from place to place) But nowhere (in the western world) can you get a legal abortion when "you can give birth any moment"

Thought this thread died

 

[Deleted User]

If you had sex with a family member and you didnt pull out,then go for it.