How do you feel about abortion?

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Fair enough, if I took you too literally I apologise, tone is difficult to discern in text.

Yes well, maybe I am not the best comedian out there, I admit it. Take care and please try to understand, it is my point of view and it may be different as I am chilean, maybe it can help somehow.
 
Here's more comedy: You would make a good american politician. No argumentation whatsoever beside "I'm righteous and your moral is shit" with nothing but an escalation of violence.
It's just... funny, that the people who always pretend having the moral high ground are continuously attacking actual arguments with ad hominem.

Kind of a SJW... but of the extreme opposite of the political spectrum.

Fight the arguments, not the people.
 
As a non-religious person, women have the right to abort. It's their body, so it's their choice, and theirs alone. (I can't believe I even have to say that, but yeesh, here we are...)

That's true. Now, they are called murderers anyway. Since it is part of their body and they are guilty of killing unborn. And yes, they are absolutely wrong, period.
 
Last edited by spotanjo3,
Here's more comedy: You would make a good american politician. No argumentation whatsoever beside "I'm righteous and your moral is shit" with nothing but an escalation of violence.
It's just... funny, that the people who always pretend having the moral high ground are continuously attacking actual arguments with ad hominem.

Kind of a SJW... but of the extreme opposite of the political spectrum.

Fight the arguments, not the people.

Ad hominem means attacking on a personal level right? Well, sadly I am not a hypocrite, and people appreciate that from me, there are no 2 sides of the coin in me.

And it is not about attacking just because, it simply pisses me off to witness such irresponsible arguments. Life does not belong to you, even if it is only fetus, he has the right to live! I mean for the love of God aren't you people humanitarian?

And I am totally a jerk sometimes so I cannot say I am good, but at least I believe in something better and that I can be better. In the end what separates us from highly intelligent computers is our ability to love, if you don't have that, you are no better than the latest i7, or i9 :O
 
Last edited by nashismo,
Ad hominem means attacking on a personal level right? Well, sadly I am not a hypocrite, and people appreciate that from me, there are no 2 sides of the coin in me.

And it is not about attacking just because, it simply pisses me off to witness such irresponsible arguments. Life does not belong to you, even if it is only fetus, he has the right to live! I mean for the love of God aren't you people humanitarian?

And I am totally a jerk sometimes so I cannot say I am good, but at least I believe in something better and that I can be better. In the end what separates us from highly intelligent computers is our ability to love, if you don't have that, you are no better than the latest i7, or i9 :O

I think you inadvertently hit the nail on the head with where the views digress. It's humanitarian, but a non sentient blob of cells isn't human, but the mother is and she should be able to choose if she wishes to endure the trauma turning those into a human is going to take on her. Until the brain forms its no more a person than a bacteria is.
 
I think you inadvertently hit the nail on the head with where the views digress. It's humanitarian, but a non sentient blob of cells isn't human, but the mother is and she should be able to choose if she wishes to endure the trauma turning those into a human is going to take on her. Until the brain forms its no more a person than a bacteria is.

But that's not the point, it is not what he is, but what he will be! And this is not metaphorical or like we all come from star dusts then we should take care of dust and be loving with dust particles hahhhaha no.

What I mean is that this fetus will "effectively" become a person! No doubt about it. Also, and this is something else, but hardships is what molds our character, is what takes the worst OR the best from us! And believe me, most of the time, people are better than what they thought they were going to be.

Hardships developes love, how can you call having a baby a trauma! Then you are surprise when I use the ad hominem thing? But even then, like I said, only through difficulties and hardships a man or woman can mold his character, can find new meaning for his life, can love with a love he didn't know he had. And so many other beautiful things that come not from easy things, but from difficult situations.

Everything has a reason to exist in this world. Sometimes when I see the 1 world country's people, they are so de attached from reality, and this makes them cold, incapable of understanding simple things. Maybe is because you've always had it all, maybe, in in a way your societies hide the bad crap, that YOU as individuals should take care of personally. And THAT would make you better people.

If following this logic, I would be OK with abortions as long as the mother herself opens his womb and take his baby with her own hands. Do you understand why I say this?
 
Last edited by nashismo,
Under that rationale every time a woman ovulates and doesn't get herself pregnant thats also murder since that could potentially be a human. I also don't agree with your premise that everything has a reason to exist, what reason? Why should something that only has the potential to be a human take priority over actual human woman?

It's not a detachment from reality, it's going by literal reality. At that point it is not a human life, it's a small collection of cells that have the potential to become that. So the reality is as in real observable facts, that there is no person there yet.

I call it a trauma in the literal sense, the process of growing a human is physically traumatic to the mothers body.
 
Under that rationale every time a woman ovulates and doesn't get herself pregnant thats also murder since that could potentially be a human. I also don't agree with your premise that everything has a reason to exist, what reason? Why should something that only has the potential to be a human take priority over actual human woman?

It's not a detachment from reality, it's going by literal reality. At that point it is not a human life, it's a small collection of cells that have the potential to become that. So the reality is as in real observable facts, that there is no person there yet.

I call it a trauma in the literal sense, the process of growing a human is physically traumatic to the mothers body.

What reason? Learning, something you haven't, at least not by someone (in this case me) trying to convince you. Only through real experiences people learn.

If a woman would be made abort herself with her means, then and only then she would realise if she is doing something wrong or something right, by real experience, VERY real.

I guess then I disagree mostly with the automatization of abortion, this makes people irresponsible and unfeeling. But in every sense and in everything in life this automatization is bad for societies and well, try to understand my last post, read it well, it comes from my entire life of learning, I give that to you freely I guess. Maybe it helps someone reading at least.
 
Not agreeing is not the same as not learning. I've learnt another point of view, that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Blindly following what others say is the opposite of learning since you wouldn't be thinking for yourself. You have an opinion and from your standpoint it is correct, I appreciate that. However I simply don't believe there is a reason for everything, that implies there is a design which again I don't believe there is. Stuff just happens, some good, some bad, some in between. I simply don't believe that something with only the potential for life should get priority over the mother who is already an actual life.
 
Last edited by spectral,
Not agreeing is not the same as not learning. I've learnt another point of view, that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Blindly following what others say is the opposite of learning since you wouldn't be thinking for yourself. You have an opinion and from your standpoint it is correct, I appreciate that. However I simply don't believe there is a reason for everything, that implies there is a design which again I don't believe there is. Stuff just happens, some good, some bad, some in between. I simply don't believe that something with only the potential for life should get priority over the mother is is already an actual life.

Ok, but you know that the learning part is not the important thing I was trying to explain. In essence is that we should "accept" all in life and not hide from it or run from it (or let a government do it for us). Taste the bitter, and taste the sweet, and only then you will appreciate one over the other.

Well take care then, I believe that we can be better and above all, discover new things, me, sure, but also you.
 
Last edited by nashismo,
Ok, but you know that the learning part is not the important thing I was trying to explain. In essence is that we should "accept" all in life and not hide from it or run from it. Taste the bitter, and taste the sweet, and only then you will appreciate one over the other.

Well take care then, I believe that we can be better and above all, discover new things, me, sure, but also you.

You see thats the point. You see it as life, I dont. At that point its not a life and I don't think it should garner the same rights purely on potential. Once it has grown to the point where it is a life, thats another matter entirely.
 
You see thats the point. You see it as life, I dont. At that point its not a life and I don't think it should garner the same rights purely on potential. Once it has grown to the point where it is a life, thats another matter entirely.

You are still not understanding me ;) I get all profound sometimes hahaha. You are fixed on the abortion thing and where life begins etc. I am going beyond that whole discussion.

I am not calling you a fool or anything, is only that you really don't understand me at all hahhaha, but that's ok, even in spanish some people don't understand me, only the most wise hahahha or the most fool :)
 
You are still not understanding me ;) I get all profound sometimes hahaha. You are fixed on the abortion thing and where life begins etc. I am going beyond that whole discussion.

I am not calling you a fool or anything, is only that you really don't understand me at all hahhaha, but that's ok, even in spanish some people don't understand me, only the most wise hahahha or the most fool :)

I understand where you are trying to come from I think. Part of the problem really is me, I am a very literal personality type. I don't believe there is a reason behind existence, meaning of life stuff.
 
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Life does not belong to you, even if it is only fetus, he has the right to live!
Thank you for taking the time to publicly figure out what ad hominem means. I enjoyed it very much.

The fetus has not the right to live against the decision of the parent in the first (depending on where you live) three months. While we do see them as living, we dont count them as individual human beings with inseperable rights yet. We allow abortion.

Stop this feaver dream of yours, where you shout "I'm saving babies!", while women have been proven to go through insufferable length to end pregnancies they dont want to carry out. Like applying preassure to the womb until they have a miscarriage. Like killing themselves.

This is the other side of the coin you refuse to look at while still gloating "I'm saving babies lifes!".

By all reasonable accounts you are saving a piece of organic mass, who has yet to develop any sensory ability or consciousness. And what you are doing by playing theres only one side of the coin on that - is to refuse women any right to end pregnancies in a reasonable timeframe, after a considerable amount of deliberation.

Furthermore. If you play idiot hardliner on this (life, life, LIFE), and want to safeguard life from the moment of conception - you really drive women into "judgment tribunals" of what counts as rape and what does not - where 50% of your hardliner friends would 'allow' abortion because they want to feel reasonable as well. And cause more harm in the process.

Furthermore. If you see 'power relationships' playing into sex and procreation at all, you are refusing women recourse on what has to happen with their bodies, from them moment of conception. Thats a freaking bad idea as well.

Furthermore. If you've saved another unwanted child, to then be able to live a life of neglect and abuse - thats on you as well. Anything that somehow lessens the likelyhood of this happening, for the child, for the parents, for the future children of the child, within certain parameters, where we agree on not having to protect the childs life over the decisions of the mother about her own body - is good, not bad.

If you neglect all that, and that making abortion illegal will not make it go away. You are a terrible person, a worse parent, and not even a very good human being. Reasoning - because you dont show empathy with people equally, and because you are unable to retreat from an extreme position, even though people tell you - you are wrong legally, ethically, humanistically, factually (just looking at the process, and how many you would be "saving" by making abortion illegal) even morally (thats a what the majority thinks thing), and still cant back away from a position, thats soley guided by a feeling.

Without holding the empathy of looking at all the other feelings involved.

If you somehow - have convinced yourself, that everything relating new life is rosey, plushy, positive, a miracle, gods creation, wonderful and uplifting - consider looking at other parts of the occasion again. I wish everyone for this to be the case. For giving birth to be the uplifting miracle everyone should experience it as. But we have to look at the cases where those are not the feelings involved - and try to minimize those.

Not even by all means. The opposite. We still try to convince mothers who want to have an abortion, to think about it for a reasonable amount of time, to consider the alternatives, to consider whats best for her child, we give support to her and her unborn child if need be. As a society. But we are humane enough to consider it her decision and her body ultimately. And not yours or the one of your religious friends ('He has the right to live!'). At least not up to a point. And the point is chosen to protect the new human being, from the moment where most of us would consider it becoming a cognisant human being, and not just a bunch of cells.

And yes - we drew a hard line there. That should not be moved lightly.

Now go on to tell teenagers who to have sex with and when again. You're kind is so good at that. Its really like you've found a calling.

If you ever get a concept, of the child being part of the mothers body for 9 months, and the mothers decisions affecting whatever happens to her child as well - and a combined concept, that if that spirals into despair, no one is helped - you've undersstood our side of the argument. You simply cant devide them, and put the unborn child separate for the childs sake. You have no idea what women will take upon themselves to decide what happens to their bodies in less than ideal situations like that. We try to deal with that in a way thats at least somewhat reasonable.
 
Last edited by notimp,
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People talking about parasites now, it is disgusting, you people are disgusting. You are a minority though, no matter how much you yell that abortion is OK, it won't make it right. Is like someone screaming the sky is green, it won't change the fact that is blue.

Normal good people will continue to do what's right and you pieces of shit will continue to do horrible things, and it is OK, it is a free world, but don't make me swallow your shit and say it tastes good, because it doesn't. Is the only metaphor I could come up with right now and fits perfectly.

Edit: I dont know why I keep getting notifications of this putrid thread with putrid people on it, when I've unsubscribed/unwatch plenty of times already.


I would direct you to this graphic regarding abortion, by 19 years old more than 1 in 50 girls have had an abortion.

Abortion rates have been increasing rapidly since the 70s and thankully more of the world drops it's authoritarian views and legalises it. Republic of Ireland case in point.

I'm going to try and dig up an enlightening article I saw by a young lady who got pregnant to experience and document the process of abortion. Fascinating stuff.
 

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Propaganda is powerful.

A big part of the issue is also that these days people use political terminology poorly.

Conservatives have traditionally been liberal (case in point being the Republican party in the US opposing slavery). The opposite of conservative is progressive. And true liberals interested in classical liberalism are libertarians. i.e. what many call conservative.

Yet many in these times, apparently including you, consider liberals and conservatives opposites.

I have no idea how this flip happened.
 
I would direct you to this graphic regarding abortion, by 19 years old more than 1 in 50 girls have had an abortion.

Abortion rates have been increasing rapidly since the 70s and thankully more of the world drops it's authoritarian views and legalises it. Republic of Ireland case in point.

I'm going to try and dig up an enlightening article I saw by a young lady who got pregnant to experience and document the process of abortion. Fascinating stuff.

Do you now how to turn notifications off for replies? I cannot find it. Thank you.
 
Do you now how to turn notifications off for replies? I cannot find it. Thank you.
Click bell in top corner, near bottom is "Alert Preferences".

Then on that page you can alter general alert preferences.

On left side look for "People you ignore".

Click that and enter names to ignore people (and associated alerts) selectively.
 
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A big part of the issue is also that these days people use political terminology poorly.

Conservatives have traditionally been liberal (case in point being the Republican party in the US opposing slavery). The opposite of conservative is progressive. And true liberals interested in classical liberalism are libertarians. i.e. what many call conservative.

Yet many in these times, apparently including you, consider liberals and conservatives opposites.

I have no idea how this flip happened.
Sure, I agree with your first point, many people do indeed throw terms around. It's a natural reaction for people to categorize things without much thought.
However, your brief overview of some historical use of such terms was hardly supporting of your claim and is, quite frankly, ironic, as you boldly define large groups, "true liberals", without considering the nuance of political alignment. Isn't such gate-keeping part of using political terminology poorly?
Also, I would love for you to quote me where I said liberals and conservatives are opposites, because I don't remember posting that.
 

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