Help me understand the lore!

Discussion in 'General Gaming Discussion' started by Sonic Angel Knight, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. Sonic Angel Knight
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    Sonic Angel Knight GBAtemp Legend

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    This post is simple, basically i seem to be such a odd gamer, liking stuff no one else, not understanding things others do, making fool of myself. (Yes i admit it, i am human and you are too) Bottom line is there somethings i don't understand about the populairty and following of some games. So here is my space to just ask "WHAT THE HECK"

    Basically I'll be adding a list of games, the list are games i may not completly understand or know the seriousness behind. For example is Metroid other M. I'll list a game. (updates will be added in future) And i want anyone with personal experience to tell me what am i missing from that game. Before anyone thinks i am asking dumb questions, if that is how you feel then please don't post here, this is a gaming discussion, i didn't do this to start a debate or some war. I am honestly curious.

    First off is Metroid other M, Why do people hate it? Was the gameplay bad, awful or just not fun?

    Second is Super smash bros melee, I honestly think people play that game more seriously than Brawl or smash Wii U/3DS What so special about it that even over 15 years later people have more passion for it than the later two?

    Third, Hyrule warriors, If i understand correctly, is a reskined clone of a series of games called Dynasty warriors, Which also had another game Dragon Quest Heroes. What draw people to a game like this? Is mostly just mashing buttons and destroying bunch of enemies. Excuse me if i overlooked something important, but that is why i am asking anyone to tell me.

    Fourth, Pokemon obsessios? Is probably way more than any other game on earth, and i remember how final fantasy used to be everyone important RPG game for the most part.

    Remember is just trying to under stand things.:teach:
     
  2. TheVinAnator

    TheVinAnator GBATemp's Greatest Vin

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    NO COFFEI!
    1. I've asked and it's apparently because samus just turns in a weird way like she gets all emotional and it's over reactive and just very different (I loved it though)

    2. IMO I've only recently played it for the first time very recently. The graphics hold up, there are awesome and funny techniques and it's just the style of play I'd say I love the game MYSELF! It really is just balancing and the stages are awesome too and all the techniques they still had.

    3. Not too sure. I mean it has a nice story it has so much content and the gameplay is great. It really is all about the combos and the real time strategy. People love the part about having to make sure you know where your going and how you are under pressure. And the combos just trying out the endless possibilities and seeing what cool moves you do and how many enemies you can rack up for a score.

    4. I'd say it's the way it works and all the nostalgia. It's also how it is aimed at kids so that's where it racks up many sales too. It's all about playing it when you were younger and like every other rpg exploring. Although it's also competitive and endless fun with friend! I mean that's all I can really think of
     
  3. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    1. metroid other M is mostly received bad because it broke with people's expectations. Samus was always the silent protagonist, so players filled in their own idea of who she was and why she acted that way. I may be generalizing, but I think most of us expected her to be akin to Ellen Ripley (alien series): strong, independent, acting alone...that sort of stuff. Other M showcased a whole different aspect. It also broke some basic rules of storytelling, so even if all the other things were perfect, people would've criticized it for that. And unfortunately enough, the gameplay wasn't great either.
    2. can't say (I would guess that people defend what they've practiced most, but I honestly can't say).
    3. I haven't played it, but I would guess the power fantasy: being able to mash through huge amounts of enemies.
    4. the recent pokemon rage has me baffled, to be honest (it's insane to see how many people go out and about...and certainly NOT just kids). Note that this isn't the first game that involves geocaching (meaning: finding a certain spot in Real Life), but it may be the first one involving a mayor franchise. In any case: it went viral to a downright absurd degree. My girlfriend plays this, and I can't but notice how it uses lots of the elements that make recent sandboxes so fun/addicting. But I doubt the majority plays it for the actual lore. And comparing it to final fantasy is...certainly beside the point at this time in history.
     
  4. Sonic Angel Knight
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    Sonic Angel Knight GBAtemp Legend

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    Well Since i am here now, I am surprised i got some responses. :)

    So from what i see here is that people critized a story that they don't understand, according to some sources, it was nintendo who made the story and protrayed her that way, and not team ninja (Co producers of the game) Decision for this is obscure, that there been probably metroid stories we don't understand or truly know since i bet not most people know the whole story, the ones that do probably read the manga, or other media (If there is any) not just play the game. Back in the day, story telling through game play was kept very minimum, to even know what the story was about or why you are going on this adventure (playing the game) it was in the manual. Besides that, the story was put in between Super metroid and Metroid fusion if i understand corrrectly. Is true that while making stories and putting them in random places in the games plot timeline can create plot holes that don't make sense at all if not done conrrectly i also don't understand why people can't just make sequals in order that they are produced.

    Yes i understand that most metroid games were more like "Send her into the planet, traverse the labrynith of the world and gather upgrades to unlock the secrets further inside, defeat the bosses and acomplish the mission." This one had different approach as to just have her working with a team and have her restricted to using her abilites when given permission made little more sense than starting with a over powered character or having to find them again. It did make her look silly but it is what it is. We get to see a back story that probably most players didn't know yet, and presented in the same style of the More notable Ninja Gaiden series (not the nes trilogy) And nice looking cenematography for the most part i didn't expect from the wii since Super smash bros brawl opening or Xenoblade Chronicles. Since i like ninja gaide, i felt playing was not so bad, except when she started walking and pausing to find what i need it got slow at the time but running around and firing stuff was just fun to look at. Weather the story was good or not, is debateable, The presentation was good, and they must been proud cause you can watch a automated version of it like a movie. Not most games do that and i wish it did. Be cause the presentatnion was so well i actually paid attention, and this coming from someone with ADHD. The game could been worst from what i am saying, I never played metroid prime series and from what i know is a FPS game which i also don't get the understanding of since i feel Metroid should just been a platformer jumping game always. But if story ruined the mood for you, sorry. I enjoyed PLAYING THE GAME CAUSE IS FUN. (Not that i didn't very much like the story either but it was a try they risked)

    Super smash bros melee seem to be the definite game everyone likes. Even when brawl was out people played it less than melee and the newer one is out, people buy the games but still pull out the gamecube and play melee. I admit when getting my gamecube and this game for christmas in 2001 i was excited to play and we did with my brother and sister for hours and days and months. I still go back to play it sometimes but not as much as the newer ones. I also understand why people like hacking games, but the game choices and reasons are what i don't always get. Project M is a hack of super smash bros that is loaded from the stage builder exploit (Known as smashstack or something, it used to install homebrew channel) And load replacement data on disc with files from sd card. Why is it called that? Obviously trying to turn brawl in to melee for some reason, adding melee characters and stages as well as more content to the game that wasn't in melee at all, people just wanted to transform it into melee for some reason. I dunno what to say to that. There was other hacks like Minus brawl which i find fun since it crreates a unbalanced game just for being unbalanced but was entertaining, but project m seem more like a way to rebrand the game for competitive aspects or melee nostalgic fans.

    Hyrule warroirs is something i like to call a Tower defense Game. Although maybe i am using the context wrong, let me explain, basically the idea of tower defense is usually a game whereyour job is to protect some base from getting damaged, if it suffers too much damage and unable to achieve goal, you lose. Some games like pixel junk monsters or Final fantasy crystal defenders are perfect examples. You build up the army, use money and cash in real time to buy upgrades and new soldiers to help defend the base.

    In this game your job is mostly defending some bases (Or seize control, all depends on what your goals are telling you to do) Defeating hoards of monsters by simply mashing attack buttons, similar to another familar game made by the same people, dead or alive series. While DOA is has gotten more technical aspect of fighting game with counter holds, hitting high and low and learning to defend with a move list of over 100 combos i think, hyrule warriors lets you do combos with just about the same feature except is not as complex as DOA. Game is time consuming and also can take up to a hour to complete the chapter. (The ingame timer actually gives you a hour for total limit you can spend in the level before you lose. I think they knew it was gonna be that long.) Weather the game is good or not, i guess is opinion based. But i just wonder since Is a clone of Dynasty warriors series which is also available on nintendo console, why not just play that game? Only difference may be the story and characters and some minor changes to make it feel more like a legend of zelda game. Playstation also has Dragon quest heroes which is just about as much the same even being released several months after hyrule warriors was made. But it was playstation only and not many talk about it as much either.

    Pokemon is a simple rpg, you collect pokemon, battle with them and train them, they encourage you to catch them all which is no easy task for honest players. (I mean people not cheating) I doubt anyone has claimed to gotten them all which get's ridiculous considering how they keep making more. But i guess 700 isn't enough :P
    So i can see why is a very attracted game. Is easy to play and understand, but every new game seem to make minor few changes. It basically follows same proceedure. The only problem i don't get is why are every game released in pairs? I am not saying the game is bad, but i just wonder what the reason behind it is. Going to the store and buying a pokemon game always been hard decision since there always 2. It just made things little more difficult to choose. There no way to tell if one is good or bad, or which is better choice. You just get the game, the box cover, and how it looks. Pokemon Sun? Pokemon moon? Do i pick when i play the game as well? I guess since i am awake when sun is up, i'll play pokemon sun.
    Red, blue? Well favorite color is red. Gold, Silver? Well the bird look like a pheonix so i'll pick that. That is what picking games is like for me. This was before you had stuff like E3, gaming conventions expos, online videos that talk about the game, people who analize trailers, and show off more than a 15 second commercial. I don't think this game is just for kids, is for anyone who wants a light weight RPG game you can play anywhere but i would liked to see least one game that followed the tv show more, or least something close and for console. Pokemon is a smart move to be honest. Now i am scared they may screw it up before i decide to try playing it again.
     
  5. Swiftloke

    Swiftloke Hwaaaa!

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    As an aspiring Smash player, I think I can help you out with #3.
    Melee's extreme popularity is due to its extremely fast-paced action and large variety of advanced techniques. As an example, watch the Grand Finals of EVO 2016, Hungrybox v. Armada: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...C44JFKf2r2yMyX3CLsQ-DA&bvm=bv.127521224,d.dmo
    What you do see is a fast moving game of fun Nintendo characters. What you don't see is these players making some 20 inputs per second, Wavedashing, L cancelling, V Cancelling, Shining, Desyncing, Dash Dancing, all in the blink of an eye.
    Brawl... removed all of that. All of it. Its pace is absurdly slow, there are no combos, instead of 20 inputs per second you can only make 1, yes, 1, and to make things worse there's an RNG that determines random tripping! It's not a competitive game at all, and was extremely unpopular for good reason.
    Project M was the fan answer to that. It used a convenient homebrew exploit in the Stage Builder [known as Stack Smash] to load itself. It reintroduces most of Melee's most popular features, like the above mentioned techniques, removes tripping, etc. etc. I could go on.
    Smash 4 was Nintendo's answer to Brawl. It's pretty much a mix of both: on the surface the game is the fun party game like it was always intended to be, but there is a competition viable game buried deep in there. Smash 4 has its own unique set of advanced techniques, like Perfect Pivoting. It's not quite Melee, but it's still pretty complex once you get into it.
    So, tl;dr:
    Melee is a more popular Smash game because it's just a more complex game. Brawl sucks competitively, and Smash 4 is somewhere in the middle. As a Smash 4 player, I can tell you that the game is still pretty damn complex. I could go on and on about how to play Smash 4 well, but I won't because you don't care. It's just not Melee, one of if not the most complex fighting game today.
     
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  6. Sonic Angel Knight
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    Sonic Angel Knight GBAtemp Legend

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    Okay i see some good points have been made here especially the one about the melee, brawl difference.
    But what i seen is that people don't understand that all of the smash bros game wasn't designed as a competitive fighting game, is just a crossover game featuring a familiar cast of all star characters from the past 30 years all in one game along with easy understanding of how to play and do certain things. While the technical aspect for melee has been discovered, it probably wasn't intended as the game had no way of fixing mistakes like that outside of just being something you can download now and days unlike you get re released games with "Version 1.2" or whatever.

    The game was just a basic fighting game with characters from different games with easy pick up and play, no need to memorize complex controls, or any other over the top competitive things like most moderen games Street fighter V, Tekken 7, KOF XIV, Or guilty gear. Those games were made by people who been making fighting games since earl 1990 and has refined them to more competitive play for target audience of tournements, The super smash bros. for WIIU/3DS Was mad with help by Capcom and Namco to assist with those kinds of things they do for their own games such as balanced game play fairness, technically enhanced features and other stuff. While melee was nintendo's second fighting game in the series and don't have reputation for fighting games before then, so lack of experience is just how it turned out. As the new one was made they had more feedback from many people to add competitive aspect to the game which is good for people who want it. I can see why all this is how it turned out but people find it that upsetting that games after melee was drastically changed to something they didn't generally like and feel they should correct that problem. (probably could been said better but i wasn't sure exactly)

    I didn't like the random tripping in brawl either, i thought it was cause of banana peels or something i didn't understand but it was humorous to see in a fighting game but it wasn't that great. There things i did like especially how much effort they put to making the game. It uses a dual layer disc unlike most wii games. Had a full fleshed out adventure more. Tons of mini game modes to play even a boss rush, 2 player event mode and co-op modes. It didn't play so well but i just got used to it. I appreciate the mods available especially minus brawl, and is nice that we have those options available for the game.

    They really tried to correct lots of flaws from the previous games, But they also increased the ammount of content and removed content. Some decisons are questionable for the game like some characters that were included or removes, cut or added stages, Game modes, and others, but it feels lot better and looks lot better than brawl did and had support for updated content which is always good if you really like the game. :)

    They even added the competitive aspect of the game inluciding online modes ranking systems and fixed AI (I consider that a good thing cause the AI was very dumb in previous games) And it did help to have both capcom and namco assist with production to get the game more appeal to competitive players as well as keep the casual players interested.

    But the fame initally was a party game for casual gamers and not really competitive i always felt.:unsure: