Hacking Help from "XDA Developers"?

Foxi4

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Phone gets hacked = Person can use different ROM/change carrier etc. Phone manufacturer doesn't give a shit as the person already owns the phone (or is leasing through telco)
3DS gets hacked = Potential actual loss of profit for Nintendo, developers, publishers, distributors etc

False. "Potential" and "Actual" do not go together in one sentence. Just because someone buys a 3DS doesn't mean that Nintendo will earn anything at all on games - you can buy a 3DS and then use pre-owned games only, essentially giving developers squat.

At the end of the day, it's the user who decides whether or not to pirate or buy used games. Hacking the system only provides the means to pirate but it does not produce any losses to the company whatsoever, potential or other. There is no such thing as a "potential loss", being upset that "someone may have given you $10 but in the end hasn't" makes no sense whatsoever.
 

genxor

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False. "Potential" and "Actual" do not go together in one sentence. Just because someone buys a 3DS doesn't mean that Nintendo will earn anything at all on games - you can buy a 3DS and then use pre-owned games only, essentially giving developers squat.

At the end of the day, it's the user who decides whether or not to pirate or buy used games. Hacking the system only provides the means to pirate but it does not produce any losses to the company whatsoever, potential or other. There is no such thing as a "potential loss", being upset that "someone may have given you $10 but in the end hasn't" makes no sense whatsoever.

You're right. Just because someone buys a 3DS it doesn't mean people will buy games. There's the potential that they will though, hence why I wrote that. Probably shithouse grammar but I'm sick and on a bunch of meds.

I was thinking the scenario of like "Hm, I could go out and buy Animal Crossing for $60 or I could order this cart for $80 (or whateveritis)". Given the DS was pretty much the first system to bring flash carts to such a wide audience it looks like Nintendo looked at that potentially happening again and put a stop to it. I hope you get where I'm coming from.. wordy not goody.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to pirate APKs too but for a lot of people it's easier to spend $1-5 to just buy whatever it is. There's a pretty big price gap between the price of a phone app and a 3DS game.
 

beano311

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I would like to add to the conversation, as a regular user and occasional comment-poster at XDA since the site first opened, don't bother them. As has already been said, many of the developers on the site are simply rebuilding ROMs that were created by other people, specifically the cyanogenmod, AOKP, and Paranoid Android teams. It's not that they're just copying someone else's work though, there's still a lot of tweaking that has to be done, especially with drivers for each device and they do fix bugs. The people who would seem like they'd potentially be helpful for 3DS hacking are the guys who come up with methods to root new devices; the problem is, it's so much easier to root an Android phone than it is to break encryption or whatever is needed for 3DS hacking. Jailbreaking the iPhone was a much more difficult task as iOS was built with a lot more security, whereas I'm pretty sure Google could care less if you want root access on your phone (it's really the manufacturers and carriers who don't want you to have access to the device because you can then remove the bloatware they're paid to install and can get around things like T-Mobile's 3G/4G throttling when you go over your monthly bandwidth limit). TL;DR: I'm not trying to say the people over on XDA lack many of the skills needed and they are far from incompetent, but they probably do, or the people who would be useful are few and far between.

Now, on to motive for hacking. On Android, the reason people root or unlock their bootloader is to get access to things like custom ROMs (not ROMs like DS game ROMs, but ROMs as in a dump of a system partition containing a modified OS) which can be tweaked to make things faster (via overclocking), run smoother, provide UI customization, among other things. There are also many apps that require root access, including apps like TitaniumBackup that let you backup each of your apps and their saved data individually so that you can always recover them or transfer data to another device, AdFree which blocks browser and in-app banner ads (okay, Google might not like that one), or SetCPU which lets you overclock your CPU. The reason people want the 3DS hacked could be one of two things: homebrew and the ability to play pirat*ahem*... backed up games. The pirate community is definitely the larger of the two. Look at sales data for people who bought an R4 (From this 2010 Joystiq article, over 100,000 R4s had been seized in the UK alone, sales of the R4 cart alone must be in the millions if you consider the smaller DS install base in the UK compared to the rest of the world as a whole and that in order for 100,000 units to be seized, there would probably be demand of close to that many, although Nintendo could be easily exaggerating the number for their own benefit) and compare that to download rankings for homebrew games and utilities, they're not even close. Remember that you don't need to root an Android phone to pirate games and apps, any phone that doesn't block APK installs can do it (almost all of them, save a handful of devices, especially older AT&T units). TL;DR: XDA contributors are doing what they do for totally different reasons, mainly they do it for the community.

Which bring me to my final point, community. Over at XDA, they're all about helping new people learn how to develop. Every week there's at least one post on the main page about a developer tutorial or tips from one of XDA's users. When someone has an issue with their build, 9.9 times out of 10, someone else from the community helps them. People who create their own custom ROMs often times use and support other people's custom ROMs. Code for every custom ROM is available in some form (usually on GitHub). XDA developer's probably has the highest reputation in the Android development community. Over on GBATemp, it is exactly the opposite. Someone comes along and wants to try to help but lack any skill, they are flamed (granted, the people at XDA looking for help usually have some sort of firm base or knowledge of programming). People who do know what they are doing and want to help have their motives and techniques questioned are flamed into retreat (two examples, Shadow LAG's Wii U Hacking and fail0verflow). GBAtemp's reputation is probably one of the lowest in the console hacking community (along with the entirety of the PS3 hacking community). Don't take that as a personal attack, I think it's more a case of a select handful of disrespectful individuals who ruin it for everyone. TL;DR: Why would anyone from the XDA community want to help the GBAtemp community when they can't be bothered to help themselves?
 

Ryukouki

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I would like to add to the conversation, as a regular user and occasional comment-poster at XDA since the site first opened, don't bother them. As has already been said, many of the developers on the site are simply rebuilding ROMs that were created by other people, specifically the cyanogenmod, AOKP, and Paranoid Android teams. It's not that they're just copying someone else's work though, there's still a lot of tweaking that has to be done, especially with drivers for each device and they do fix bugs. The people who would seem like they'd potentially be helpful for 3DS hacking are the guys who come up with methods to root new devices; the problem is, it's so much easier to root an Android phone than it is to break encryption or whatever is needed for 3DS hacking. Jailbreaking the iPhone was a much more difficult task as iOS was built with a lot more security, whereas I'm pretty sure Google could care less if you want root access on your phone (it's really the manufacturers and carriers who don't want you to have access to the device because you can then remove the bloatware they're paid to install and can get around things like T-Mobile's 3G/4G throttling when you go over your monthly bandwidth limit). TL;DR: I'm not trying to say the people over on XDA lack many of the skills needed and they are far from incompetent, but they probably do, or the people who would be useful are few and far between.

Now, on to motive for hacking. On Android, the reason people root or unlock their bootloader is to get access to things like custom ROMs (not ROMs like DS game ROMs, but ROMs as in a dump of a system partition containing a modified OS) which can be tweaked to make things faster (via overclocking), run smoother, provide UI customization, among other things. There are also many apps that require root access, including apps like TitaniumBackup that let you backup each of your apps and their saved data individually so that you can always recover them or transfer data to another device, AdFree which blocks browser and in-app banner ads (okay, Google might not like that one), or SetCPU which lets you overclock your CPU. The reason people want the 3DS hacked could be one of two things: homebrew and the ability to play pirat*ahem*... backed up games. The pirate community is definitely the larger of the two. Look at sales data for people who bought an R4 (From this 2010 Joystiq article, over 100,000 R4s had been seized in the UK alone, sales of the R4 cart alone must be in the millions if you consider the smaller DS install base in the UK compared to the rest of the world as a whole and that in order for 100,000 units to be seized, there would probably be demand of close to that many, although Nintendo could be easily exaggerating the number for their own benefit) and compare that to download rankings for homebrew games and utilities, they're not even close. Remember that you don't need to root an Android phone to pirate games and apps, any phone that doesn't block APK installs can do it (almost all of them, save a handful of devices, especially older AT&T units). TL;DR: XDA contributors are doing what they do for totally different reasons, mainly they do it for the community.

Which bring me to my final point, community. Over at XDA, they're all about helping new people learn how to develop. Every week there's at least one post on the main page about a developer tutorial or tips from one of XDA's users. When someone has an issue with their build, 9.9 times out of 10, someone else from the community helps them. People who create their own custom ROMs often times use and support other people's custom ROMs. Code for every custom ROM is available in some form (usually on GitHub). XDA developer's probably has the highest reputation in the Android development community. Over on GBATemp, it is exactly the opposite. Someone comes along and wants to try to help but lack any skill, they are flamed (granted, the people at XDA looking for help usually have some sort of firm base or knowledge of programming). People who do know what they are doing and want to help have their motives and techniques questioned are flamed into retreat (two examples, Shadow LAG's Wii U Hacking and fail0verflow). GBAtemp's reputation is probably one of the lowest in the console hacking community (along with the entirety of the PS3 hacking community). Don't take that as a personal attack, I think it's more a case of a select handful of disrespectful individuals who ruin it for everyone. TL;DR: Why would anyone from the XDA community want to help the GBAtemp community when they can't be bothered to help themselves?

I actually completely agree with your last point. I see a lot of veteran members on this site going about and immediately being aggressive towards newcomers for asking questions. Sometimes, yes the question gets old, but admittedly we were all in that position at some point in our stay here. I really am starting to pay a lot more attention to the XDA community because of the points you mentioned above.
 

iNFiNiTY

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The PSP scene is the example of the co-operative public hacking scene, it just didn't apply to DS and doesn't apply to 3DS (because the 3DS is a lot harder and way different motivations). Communities generate themselves depending on feasibility... and the 3DS is not a feasible platform for hardly anyone to hack except a small minority of very skilled top level hackers doing it for the purpose of piracy (for profit).
 
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Rydian

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The PSP scene is the example of the co-operative public hacking scene, it just didn't apply to DS and doesn't apply to 3DS (because the 3DS is a lot harder and way different motivations). Communities generate themselves depending on feasibility... and the 3DS is not a feasible platform for hardly anyone to hack except a small minority of very skilled top level hackers doing it for the purpose of piracy (for profit).
Agreed on most parts (people don't realize that people aren't going to try to hack something if they're not going to benefit), but there's still the people that try to hack something for a challenge, or for their own personal gain or just to learn or something like that, or simply to make small modifications that benefit themselves (like the guy that did some NAND dumping and backup)... but given how much work is required nowadays those people are unlikely to bring anything to release unless it's a group working together with that goal.
 

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