Hacking HBC 1.0.8 Update

[dlf]

Some of us use the supposed "pirate tech" to try before we buy, that so wrong? EA/Gamestop got two sales of Grand Slam Tennis because i could try it first. Sony/various companies that work with Sony for the PSP have gotten some sales in PSP & PS1 games because I could try the emulator for the PS1 first.

 

[marcan_troll]

70-80 bricked ?? how about the thousands of Wii's that were saved by cios ?
"saved" by cios? That makes no sense. How the hell is cios going to "save" you from a permabrick. The only things that remotely brickproof your Wii are preloader-type things (only somewhat) and BootMii-boot2 (just about fully).

EDIT: is bootmii ios still supported ? wouldn't that be considered a cioscrap ?
No, because it's not an IOS and contains no portion of IOS.

QUOTE(dlf @ Aug 15 2010, 03:57 AM)

Some of us use the supposed "pirate tech" to try before we buy, that so wrong? EA/Gamestop got two sales of Grand Slam Tennis because i could try it first. Sony/various companies that work with Sony for the PSP have gotten some sales in PSP & PS1 games because I could try the emulator for the PS1 first.

I'm not having this argument today. Besides, warez tools (e.g. tools related to cIOS with patched DI modules) have always been banned on wiibrew, so this is totally offtopic.

 

[s3phir0th115]

What safe choice? You guys didn't give developers enough time to start using your new method for their applications. Are you telling users to use programs that aren't created yet?

What programs? USB2 is in libogc, people just need to recompile/relink. The only other mildly useful tools that were removed were often used to install partial updates from Nintendo (sometimes patched, which is why they were removed). So just use the Nintendo updater then. They don't exactly fill a pressing need. Once someone cares enough, they'll be rewritten not to patch stuff and they can go back into Wiibrew. You don't even need to use any new method for that, all someone needs to do is get rid of the patching business and they can go back in.

Seriously, why are people surprised that we recommend updating? Updating has always been a perfectly valid option once a new HackMii installer is out which supports it. Our policy is and always will be remaining compatible with the latest Nintendo firmware, no patches, for as long as we can maintain it. So if you want the Wii Shop, just update to 4.3 and be done with it.

The one thing that is missing is DVDX, but that has nothing to do with the wiibrew clean-out. Erant is working on making libogc play nice with AHBPROT in substitute of DVDX.

I'm personally surprised that you guys are recommending updating because you have said yourselves that you don't trust Nintendo's method of updating boot2. So you're honestly telling me you'd rather them risk bricking their wii with shitty boot2 updating code as part of a Nintendo update, rather than using a safer update method of downloading and installing a new shop channel?

That's contradictory at best. And I personally think most users would rather use another method to get the shop channel than to risk breaking their wii by installing an updated boot2.

Applications like DOP-Mii were created for a reason. Just because they help install custom IOSes doesn't mean they dont' have legitimate use. And I'm fairly certain that the shop channel and IOS61, being signed, would have no need for a custom IOS to be installed with DOP-Mii, but you guys remove it just because it can help with cIOS installation.

 

[tueidj]

I'm not saying we shouldn't develop safer software if possible, but you, "Can't fix stupid" so to speak.QUOTEApplications like DOP-Mii were created for a reason. Just because they help install custom IOSes doesn't mean they dont' have legitimate use. And I'm fairly certain that the shop channel and IOS61, being signed, would have no need for a custom IOS to be installed with DOP-Mii, but you guys remove it just because it can help with cIOS installation.

You can't make stupid smarter, but you can move the sharp and pointy tools out of his reach.

 

[luminalace]

I am certainly not going to tell all my friends who wii's I have hacked to update to 4.3! There is still no valid reason to do it!

Each new SM update closes more doors than they open at the moment.

 

[s3phir0th115]

I'm not saying we shouldn't develop safer software if possible, but you, "Can't fix stupid" so to speak.QUOTEApplications like DOP-Mii were created for a reason. Just because they help install custom IOSes doesn't mean they dont' have legitimate use. And I'm fairly certain that the shop channel and IOS61, being signed, would have no need for a custom IOS to be installed with DOP-Mii, but you guys remove it just because it can help with cIOS installation.

You can't make stupid smarter, but you can move the sharp and pointy tools out of his reach.

Wouldn't Nintendo's boot2 updater count as a "sharp and pointy tool" to you all? You've told me yourself, as have you all on hackmii that you don't trust Nintendo's boot2 updater, and would rather write your own. And you all did.

So why should users endure that risk when homebrew has the ability to install an updated shop channel, with none of the risk?

 

[tueidj]

Dude: I'm not part of Team Twiizers, I've never written anything for hackmii.com and I didn't work directly on HBC or have any say in what happens at wiibrew.org (I don't even have an account there).

 

[s3phir0th115]

Dude: I'm not part of Team Twiizers, I've never written anything for hackmii.com and I didn't work directly on HBC or have any say in what happens at wiibrew.org (I don't even have an account there).

Fair enough. I thought anyone that contributed code would be considered a member. (Since you were listed as the contributor to the usb improvements.)

Nonetheless, you seem to follow the same ideas as they do, so my questions still remain.

 

[marcan_troll]

I'm personally surprised that you guys are recommending updating because you have said yourselves that you don't trust Nintendo's method of updating boot2. So you're honestly telling me you'd rather them risk bricking their wii with shitty boot2 updating code as part of a Nintendo update, rather than using a safer update method of downloading and installing a new shop channel?
Their boot2 update code is unsafe in the grand scheme of things (e.g. for the vast number of Wiis out there, modified or not, it will produce a very measurable amount of bricks). Your actual chances of being bricked by it are pretty small. Plus it's a one time thing, once you have boot2v4 you never need to update again, at least for now. Heck, Nintendo's boot2 update is much safer than most upgraders/downgraders/anything unofficial that messes with the system menu or its IOS. People don't get the scale here. The HackMii installer is ridiculously paranoid and triple checks everything, which is why it's so safe. Nintendo's boot2 update code is architected wrong, which is why it's unsafe enough to brick some Wiis in corner cases and under certain circumstances. Yet (e.g.) Waninkoko's downgraders are such pieces of shit that under quite common circumstances they brick all Wiis, deterministically, or at least some versions did (some 30 or so of the bricked Wiis that I got e-mailed about were bricked by running one of Waninkoko's downgraders/upgraders under certain circumstances, which would cause them to always brick the Wii).

QUOTE(s3phir0th115 @ Aug 15 2010, 04:04 AM) Applications like DOP-Mii were created for a reason. Just because they help install custom IOSes doesn't mean they dont' have legitimate use. And I'm fairly certain that the shop channel and IOS61, being signed, would have no need for a custom IOS to be installed with DOP-Mii, but you guys remove it just because it can help with cIOS installation.

So have someone yank the patching aspect from DOP-Mii and it can go back on Wiibrew. Removing features, that's not exactly hard, is it? Seriously, you guys act like we're asking people to rewrite all their apps for mini instead of libogc or something.

 

[artlan]

This is getting rather crazy with people complaining a lot about pointless things...
As a developer, I can sympathize with all the coders who have to deal with updates and new methods.
When a new, better, safer way is discovered to implement a process, it's often times a LOT of work to re-write systems to support it. To use that older method AND still maintain the code to run older methods and processes is even more of a chore. Not only do you have to try and maintain legacy code and all it's inherent flaws, you must provide checking and fall backs to ensure it's only being used when needed.
That being said, even if legacy support IS still left alone and active, it still caries it's own risks. As a developer of any system - it's your job and goal to eliminate as much active risk as possible. Not only to aid the end user, but to save yourself time in helping repair systems.
It only makes sense that they would remove apps from the site (not the system, just the site) that now rely solely on a outmoded process which (for now) appears to be compliant with the new system. Sure it works for now, for most. But what if they must change something down the line and it breaks. How many forums posts and e-mails will they get yelling at them to fix it.
Better to remove the items from the site now, to help stem the flow of new users placing it on new systems, than deal with the odds of systems going down later and having to spend, waste, time explaining over and over again how it's not their fault the other applications didn't update code and now are problematic when they could be using that time to further develop their own code and processes.

A good rule to live by - Don't complain about someone else's performance unless you can do it twice as well. And be prepared to prove it.


That said - Carry on everyone! and thank you for the new HBC and thanks to all the other coders here who made my Wii as awesome a tool as it is a toy.

 

[Slowking]

Yet (e.g.) Waninkoko's downgraders are such pieces of shit that under quite common circumstances they brick all Wiis, deterministically, or at least some versions did (some 30 or so of the bricked Wiis that I got e-mailed about were bricked by running one of Waninkoko's downgraders/upgraders under certain circumstances, which would cause them to always brick the Wii).

Yeah we all know that Waninkokos Updaters and Downgraders are brickware, but what does that have to do with cIOS or DOP-Mii? We don't say you should host Waninkokos crap on wiibrew.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

All apps which install cIOS or patched IOS of any kind are being removed from WiiBrew as patched IOS are no longer necessary because of HW_AHBPROT allowing full hardware access and USB 2.0 support via IOS58.

I don't understand. It sounds like there is no longer any need for cios at all?

 

[bpc908]

All apps which install cIOS or patched IOS of any kind are being removed from WiiBrew as patched IOS are no longer necessary because of HW_AHBPROT allowing full hardware access and USB 2.0 support via IOS58.

I don't understand. It sounds like there is no longer any need for cios at all?

I think that's exactly what it's saying

 

[s3phir0th115]

Their boot2 update code is unsafe in the grand scheme of things (e.g. for the vast number of Wiis out there, modified or not, it will produce a very measurable amount of bricks). Your actual chances of being bricked by it are pretty small. Plus it's a one time thing, once you have boot2v4 you never need to update again, at least for now. Heck, Nintendo's boot2 update is much safer than most upgraders/downgraders/anything unofficial that messes with the system menu or its IOS. People don't get the scale here. The HackMii installer is ridiculously paranoid and triple checks everything, which is why it's so safe. Nintendo's boot2 update code is architected wrong, which is why it's unsafe enough to brick some Wiis in corner cases and under certain circumstances. Yet (e.g.) Waninkoko's downgraders are such pieces of shit that under quite common circumstances they brick all Wiis, deterministically, or at least some versions did (some 30 or so of the bricked Wiis that I got e-mailed about were bricked by running one of Waninkoko's downgraders/upgraders under certain circumstances, which would cause them to always brick the Wii).

Oh, I'm not supporting Waninkoko's update methods. I don't like them personally. I'd rather download wads with NUSD or something, then install them with wad manager or whatever. Then have a priiloader install to take care of any undesired functions in the system menu. (Like deleting the homebrew channel before you guys updated the titleid.)

But I can't oppose ways to update part of the system in a safer way, especially when the other update methods update things that the user may not want updated.

But, safer or not, I'm pretty sure using an installer, cIOS powered or whatever or not, to install a non system menu IOS and channel would have less brick risk than a Nintendo update that includes ANY boot2 update. And it's for that reason that I think it's important to have the least risky methods of update available, if possible.

QUOTESo have someone yank the patching aspect from DOP-Mii and it can go back on Wiibrew. Removing features, that's not exactly hard, is it? Seriously, you guys act like we're asking people to rewrite all their apps for mini instead of libogc or something.

When you contest non-Nintendo updates, and the cIOS and what not, it's only logical to assume that DOP-Mii was removed for more reasons than just cIOS stuff.

And yes, not hard to remove features. I just needed to make it clear you guys weren't also removing things just for allowing non official update methods. Because I'm sure you guys understand the logical reasoning for wanting those types of things available.

 

[Burton]

Yet (e.g.) Waninkoko's downgraders are such pieces of shit that under quite common circumstances they brick all Wiis, deterministically, or at least some versions did (some 30 or so of the bricked Wiis that I got e-mailed about were bricked by running one of Waninkoko's downgraders/upgraders under certain circumstances, which would cause them to always brick the Wii).

Hehe, still holding that grudge with Waninkoko. Today's examples are only directed at Waninkoko. No one else's apps causes bricks only him.

 

[Remfin]

What safe choice? You guys didn't give developers enough time to start using your new method for their applications. Are you telling users to use programs that aren't created yet?

No matter how good your new access method is, people are going to still want to use cIOS based applications if there are no developed alternatives yet.

They have had 50 weeks to start using the new method for their applications.

If app developers should be bitching at anyone it is the CIOS "authors" who never adapted to that new information, not the HBC folks. It would have been nice to provide a little overlap between generally availability of the unlocked HBC and the actual lockdown, but it's clear since we've had 50 weeks without any progress on that front there needs to be a swift kick in the ass or nothing will ever happen on that front.

 

[Bloodlust]

So IOS58-64-v6175.wad from NUS will do?

 

[Burton]

So IOS58-64-v6175.wad from NUS will do?

yes, it will do.

 

[g4jek8j54]

So IOS58-64-v6175.wad from NUS will do?

Yes, that is the only version that is on the Nintendo update servers. According to Wiibrew, the "Your Shape" game contains v5918 of IOS58, which is currently the only other version of IOS58. I don't know if that version would work on the newest version of the Homebrew Channel or not.

 

[Burton]

So IOS58-64-v6175.wad from NUS will do?

Yes, that is the only version that is on the Nintendo update servers. According to Wiibrew, the "Your Shape" game contains v5918 of IOS58, which is currently the only other version of IOS58. I don't know if that version would work on the newest version of the Homebrew Channel or not.

I'm using 6175 and It works perfectly!