Gaming Guise have you seen Iron fall? [60fps, graphic whore edition?)

[JoostinOnline]

I don't see how the plot could be relevant here - the whole debacle is about graphics which in this case are somewhat advanced and with rich geometry considering the weak platform the engine is running on and it's very smooth, running at 60FPS however end up looking ass because you can see a clear lack of an art direction and because you could kill someone with blocky textures like this (see: very first shot), proving once more that you can shove as much geometry into a model as you want and it'll still look blocky if the texture is terrible. We're not discussing the plot.

Did you even read the post I was responding to at the start of this debate?

 

[Foxi4]

Did you even read the post I was responding to at the start of this debate?

Yes, yes I have. Have you?

Why are you guys arguing about the 3DS's power; you should be complaining about how this game looks uninspired and boring. I mean I wouldn't buy Superman 64 if it looked realistic.

He's saying that this looks uninspired and boring because it does look uninspired and boring, and for the reasons we discussed before the assets are probably going to land in the full game. As soulx mentioned earlier, the studio needs to choose an art direction - if they want to mix a tech demo and a game trailer into one video then the video needs to satisfy the needs of a tech demo and a trailer which it does not.

 

[JoostinOnline]

As soulx mentioned earlier, the studio needs to choose an art direction - if they want to mix a tech demo and a game trailer into one video then the video needs to satisfy the needs of a tech demo and a trailer which it does not.

They didn't do that though. We don't know anything about the game other than one screenshot and the specs listed in the tech demo. Do you REALLY think the game will consist of walking around an empty and closed off room shooting at nothing?

 

[Foxi4]

They didn't do that though. We don't know anything about the game other than one screenshot and the specs listed in the tech demo. Do you REALLY think the game will consist of walking around an empty and closed off room shooting at nothing?

I think they may put enemies into the exact same room and have you shoot them.

But I get your point - the plot can change everything and make something that looks mundane interesting all of a sudden. What I'm basically trying to say is that the look of the tech demo assets isn't really promising wheras it was supposed to wow me (I guess?).

 

[JoostinOnline]

I think they may put enemies into the exact same room and have you shoot them.

But I get your point - the plot can change everything and make something that looks mundane interesting all of a sudden. What I'm basically trying to say is that the look of the tech demo assets isn't really promising wheras it was supposed to wow me (I guess?).

As I said, writing the entire engine in ASM was the one thing that really caught my attention. ASM is as fast as it gets, and it's very difficult to write in. You don't get variables or function names, and it is different for every type of processor. If programs ever use ASM, it's usually just a few lines.

The other stuff I just figured was impressive because they were big words that I didn't understand, but as a few people pointed out here, it was BS.

 

[Foxi4]

As I said, writing the entire engine in ASM was the one thing that really caught my attention. ASM is as fast as it gets, and it's very difficult to write in. You don't get variables or function names, and it is different for every type of processor. If programs ever use ASM, it's usually just a few lines.

...specifically because ASM is a last-resort, not the programming standard which I tried to explore earlier on, but I suppose it's a matter of approach, really. Maybe the developers are out of their comfort zone when coding in a higher language (which would be... weird, I guess? ).

The other stuff I just figured was impressive because they were big words that I didn't understand, but as a few people pointed out here, it was BS.

I suppose I'm moderately impressed with the number of NPC's on-screen at the same time myself, provided they all have independent A.I..

 

[JoostinOnline]

...specifically because ASM is a last-resort, not the programming standard which I tried to explore earlier on, but I suppose it's a matter of approach, really. Maybe the developers are out of their comfort zone when coding in a higher language (which would be... weird, I guess? ).

Depends on the results you want, and what hardware you have. Back in my TI programming days, Z80 ASM was the norm if you wanted your program to run at a decent rate.

 

[Foxi4]

Depends on the results you want, and what hardware you have. Back in my TI programming days, Z80 ASM was the norm if you wanted your program to run at a decent rate.

Exactly. ASM was a necessity, not a choice. Here it's a deliberate choice.

This is a lot like the scene from "Saw" where the protagonist chooses to saw his foot off for the greater good, except in this case the developers don't use ASM because they have to, they use ASM because they like sawing their feet off for no reason. See my point now?

 

[JoostinOnline]

Exactly. ASM was a necessity, not a choice. Here it's a deliberate choice.

This is a lot like the scene from "Saw" where the protagonist chooses to saw his foot off for the greater good, except in this case the developers don't use ASM because they have to, they use ASM because they like sawing their feet off to reach a level of performance that would otherwise not be possible. See my point now?

Fixed that for you.

You don't HAVE to use Z80 ASM for a game, plenty don't. You do if you want to get a decent framerate though. VD-Dev (anybody else keep thinking of STD's when they read that?) did it for 60FPS in 3D mode.

 

[Foxi4]

Fixed that for you.

You don't HAVE to use Z80 ASM for a game, plenty don't. You do if you want to get a decent framerate though. VD-Dev (anybody else keep thinking of STD's when they read that?) did it for 60FPS in 3D mode.

Ehh... The way I see it is that on the Z80, you do so to make something playable wheras VD-Dev does so only to enhance something that's already playable, but okay.

 

[TripleSMoon]

That doesn't matter. It isn't a representation of what the gameplay or story will be like. It's not doubling as anything. It's a safe bet that the textures will be similar to those in the video, but it doesn't tell us anything else about the game.

Imagine if a new Zelda game was coming out, said by Nintendo to push the 3DS to its limits, and a tech demo of the game was shown 6 months before release, with impressive tech, but shit art direction and completely uninspired, lifeless design. Are you honestly saying you wouldn't be worried in the slightest that the demo in any way represents what the final product will look like? Because that's essentially what you're saying about Ironfall.

 

[Shuji1987]

So this is the 3DS it's limit? Was to be expected with the low end hardware. This also isn't anything remotely impressive at all. Low end smartphones can produce better results than this crap.

I personally hope that Nintendo will use more state of the art tech in their next DS. I really hate that Nintendo still use resistive touchscreens (should be capacitive..) and they should really work on the display tech to make their games more vivid and lifelike.

I'd like higher resolution (1280x720+), IPS or AMOLED screens for unmatched colors and beautiful pictures and of course a SoC that can make use of such technology. I'd prefer a Snapdragon or Exynos SoC seeing how Tegra always makes big promises but always gets outperformed by other SoC's.

I mean, I would really love for Nintendo to make a return into pioneering in the tech department as well, instead of just trying to have the most gimmicks and hope it sells. Personally, I feel that state of the art tech can really complement games even more. Nintendo really knows how to make games no doubt about it, but it can be so much more then they are today. I just hope they will realize that.

But this will never happen I guess. =(

 

[Veho]

I mean, I would really love for Nintendo to make a return into pioneering in the tech department as well, instead of just trying to have the most gimmicks and hope it sells.

Well, one man's "pioneering" is another man's "trying to have the most gimmicks".

 

[JoostinOnline]

Imagine if a new Zelda game was coming out, said by Nintendo to push the 3DS to its limits, and a tech demo of the game was shown 6 months before release, with impressive tech, but shit art direction and completely uninspired, lifeless design. Are you honestly saying you wouldn't be worried in the slightest that the demo in any way represents what the final product will look like? Because that's essentially what you're saying about Ironfall.

Wow, that seems REALLY harsh. I think it looks pretty cool. It may not be completely original, but at this point, original (in terms of design) often means really weird. We don't know what the environment or, more importantly, what the enemies will look like.

I'll wait for a plot and/or real gameplay footage before I pass any judgement on the game itself.

 

[TripleSMoon]

Wow, that seems REALLY harsh. I think it looks pretty cool. It may not be completely original, but at this point, original (in terms of design) often means really weird. We don't know what the environment or, more importantly, what the enemies will look like.

I'll wait for a plot and/or real gameplay footage before I pass any judgement on the game itself.

I see where you're coming from, and I'm not saying they can't pull a 180 between now and release. Heck, this isn't quite the same, but a recent example that comes to mind is Super Mario 3D World, which looked really awful during the reveal trailer, but ended up looking seriously awesome in subsequent trailers only months afterward.

That said, if Ironfall was by a developer I knew and trusted, I would give them a little benefit of the doubt. But in this case it isn't; it's a small developer I've never heard of, and who apparently has a pretty bad track record. So I don't have high hopes.

 

[KingVamp]

*hyperbole rant

You do realize that what you are describing is a $400-600+ device, right?

 

[JoostinOnline]

I see where you're coming from, and I'm not saying they can't pull a 180 between now and release.

I don't think they necessarily need to. From my point of view, they've only released a small amount of information. We know what the engine is capable of, and almost certainly what the general design of the textures will be like. Controls, plot, and enemies are still a complete mystery. People are putting this down for being "boring" before they even know the basics about the game.

Now I'm not saying the game will be good. It could be terrible, but it could also be great. I just don't think a tech demo, even one this close to launch, is enough to judge the game by.

 

[Shuji1987]

Well, one man's "pioneering" is another man's "trying to have the most gimmicks".

I'm not trying to insult Nintendo fanboys or anything with that, but I meant to say that Nintendo used to make an effort in state of the art tech. They offered the best of both worlds. Epic games with epic visuals. Now it's only epic games. Just trying to say with epic visuals the Nintendo experience could be so much more immersive.

Looking at the 3DS hurts my eyes and I find that sad.

You do realize that what you are describing is a $400-600+ device, right?

Look up Xiaomi devices or Nexus devices. They deliver a shitload of performance for absurdly low prices. The 3DS doesn't even need 3G radios and a lot of other crap phones and tablets do need. Seeing how the 3DS launched at 250 euros this is more then possible you know.

 

[KingVamp]

Look up Xiaomi devices or Nexus devices. They deliver a shitload of performance for absurdly low prices. The 3DS doesn't even need 3G radios and a lot of other crap phones and tablets do need. Seeing how the 3DS launched at 250 euros this is more then possible you know.

The 3ds launch ~1 1/2 years ago. The phones you are describing now are recent and even then they still cost more.Most phones and tablets don't have game controls, if any with nexus sort of power. The 3ds has 3d and Nexus doesn't even have a SD card slot.

 

[Foxi4]

The 3ds launch ~2 1/2 years ago. The phones you are describing now are recent and even then they still cost more.Most phones and tablets don't have game controls, if any with nexus sort of power. The 3ds has 3d and Nexus doesn't even have a SD card slot.

KingVamp, you and I both know that the 3DS was underpowered Day 1.