Hacking Gateway or Sky3ds?

[Arithmatics]

Sky3DS's site updated several days ago saying that it supports 9.4. So whoever says that it doesn't is just trolling... else please site your source. Sky3DS is not "updateless", as those with the red card can clearly alter their firmware by using the exploit that Sky3DS links to on their website.

It seems that for now Sky3DS has a HUGE advantage.... the fact that it is using a "hardware" oriented exploit and that it is very unlikely that it can be blocked by a firmware update. Whereas GW is blocked and users are constantly stuck on old firmwares, unable to access internet or CIA patches on their native device. Sky3DS and Ninjhax launched around the same time and Nintendo destroyed Ninjhax within a few weeks, meaning that the Sky3DS exploit must be more complicated to patch. Furthermore, Ninjhax should have been the LEAST of Nintendo's concerns, as it did not allow for pirating of 3DS roms, merely allowing home-brew and emulators that users already have tons of access to via 3rd party devices, PCs, and even their smartphones.

We can only speculate on Nintendo's priorities. But to me I feel like Ninjhax was actually pretty high up because technically, it does allow for pirating of 3DS roms. Smea himself chose to not disclose/implement that part because of his stance against piracy

From smea's blog: http://smealum.net/?p=506

To release or not to release

Generally speaking, the thing that’s been stopping me (and others) from releasing working exploits has been the fact that they might be used for piracy. Fortunately, that should not be a factor in this case, as by its very nature, ssspwn can not by itself allow piracy. That’s right, it’s the sweet spot that gives us just enough to get awesome homebrew code running in arm11 user mode, but not enough to break the system bad enough to let anyone do whatever the hell they want. As such, I personally have no qualms with releasing the exploit into the wild.
You might be wondering why there isn’t a download link available yet. The reason for that is that, as I mentioned, ssspwn has yet to be fixed. In my opinion, it would be dumb to burn such a nice vuln on just 6.3 when we know full well that we should be able to use this on 7.x, and possibly even 8.x+ with some work.

What he meant by Sky3DS being updateless was the fact that you can't "flash" the card for a new exploit when it gets blocked. Gateway on the other hand can be "flashed" so it can still be considered relevant.

It's pretty simple.
If your 3DS is on fw 9.2 or lower, get a Gateway.
If it's 9.3 or above, get a Sky3DS (implying it still works on 9.4)

Yes it does work on 9.4 source:

Heck it's not like Nintendo's oficial papers on HOW-TO-BUILD-A-3DS-GAMECARD have been leaked or anything, so there's something Sky3DS is doing that said #3dsdevs aren't mentioning, yet they do mention it is "easy to block".

I need this source for verification. I can't find shit anywhere besides forum-based allegations. I'm sorry.

Uhm .. Not wanting to randomly argument against you dude but uh .. You do know Sky3DS is using some kind of exploit at least at hardware level? They have to be exploiting SOMETHING to bypass Nintendo's regulations and systems.

Yes they are. That's why emulation's not perfect. I forgot to mention that in the quote.

 

[Yoman228]

We know Sky3ds can be blocked. Devs from #3dsdev have confirmed it.

What is the chance of a company that so greedy and placed the 10 game limit in their cards will tell you their customers that, their card will be blocked very soon and should not buy them now?

 

[guitarheroknight]

Uhm .. Not wanting to randomly argument against you dude but uh .. You do know Sky3DS is using some kind of exploit at least at hardware level? They have to be exploiting SOMETHING to bypass Nintendo's regulations and systems. Heck it's not like Nintendo's oficial papers on HOW-TO-BUILD-A-3DS-GAMECARD have been leaked or anything, so there's something Sky3DS is doing that said #3dsdevs aren't mentioning, yet they do mention it is "easy to block".

If such an assumption is real, we'll see in the comming months what happens with Nintendo's firmware updates. The first two or three might not, but I'd wager they won't take very long.

Edit: Another huge problem with Sky3DS: If they manage to block your cart. You're inherently f*cked. I'm not saying you can't block out EmuNAND somehow, but at least Gateway's FPGA can be updated internally. What can you update on a Sky3DS unless you own some sort of Raspberry Pi ??

I dont know where, but ive read that they use the leaked 9.x official codes to initiate signed code. Thats how the 3DS thinks it has a OEM card inside. Since this is pure speculation, all they have to do is to change their codes in the next firmware version (10.x) and Sky3ds gets blocked. I mean it sounds pretty easy, so maybe that why "they" consider it an easy patch.

 

[tony_2018]

So basicly at this point, it just comes down to someone finding out how sky3ds works to be able to go online with 9.3-9.4 wihout an update. I dunno I think Nintendo turned there attention to sky3ds after 9.3 was release and it was announced that smea and GW were blocked on 9.3. They wouldn't have release 9.4 so soon like that. I'm expecting 9.5 in the coming weeks or next year. Nintendo could be trying to lock it down before releasing NN3DS in EU/US.

GHK has a good pros/cons list of both cards ATM and if anybody would like to add to it that hopefully it wouldn't be a problem.

Also sky3ds probably is basicly a card emulater and seems to be working. I'm guessing the team has found a reason why they don't need to use the option of firmware updates on them, as if they are saying its bullet proof. Only time will tell but for now they are ahead of the game in the 'compatibility support' concerns. I really wish GW can release there firmware but they also have there reasons of which they have not state as to why its not posted.

Hopefully you guys stop bombing them with ignorant emails to release the update.

 

[Arithmatics]

So basicly at this point, it just comes down to someone finding out how sky3ds works to be able to go online with 9.3-9.4 wihout an update. I dunno I think Nintendo turned there attention to sky3ds after 9.3 was release and it was announced that smea and GW were blocked on 9.3. They wouldn't have release 9.4 so soon like that. I'm expecting 9.5 in the coming weeks or next year. Nintendo could be trying to lock it down before releasing NN3DS in EU/US.

GHK has a good pros/cons list of both cards ATM and if anybody would like to add to it that hopefully it wouldn't be a problem.

Also sky3ds probably is basicly a card emulater and seems to be working. I'm guessing the team has found a reason why they don't need to use the option of firmware updates on them, as if they are saying its bullet proof. Only time will tell but for now they are ahead of the game in the 'compatibility support' concerns. I really wish GW can release there firmware but they also have there reasons of which they have not state as to why its not posted.

Hopefully you guys stop bombing them with ignorant emails to release the update.

Something new I managed to get from visiting #3dsdev IRC. I didn't snip anything. For further proof attached is a screenshot of the page

Spoiler

I know my ip is shown in the picture. it's proof i'm from Malaysia for those who might discredit this.

[01:54] <random528> Hello
[01:55] <random528> I have a question I need answered; Has anyone here confirmed that Sky3DS is "easy" to block?
[01:56] <random528> I mean GovanifY mentioned that it may just be using "broked" catridge commands but I just wanna know if this is the case
[01:57] <Vappy> govanify isn't the most trustworthy source
[01:57] <Vappy> but i know that neimod was able to find at least a few ways to detect it without a great deal of effort
[01:58] <random528> I just need to confirm this and use it as a source for discussion on how Sky3DS may or may not be easily blocked
[01:58] <random528> Oh? I'm sorry for sounding noobish but by detecting it, do you mean being able to recognize that it's running unsigned code?
[01:59] <random528> As in recognizing that it's not an OEM cartridge.
[02:01] <Bond697> to be fair
[02:01] <random528> How do I change my name god damn it.
[02:01] <Bond697> listening to anything govanify says beyond releases of things he stole is a mistake
[02:01] <Subv> /nick YourNewNick
[02:01] == Arithmatics [af883541@gateway/web/freenode/ip.175.136.53.65] has joined #3dsdev
[02:01] <Arithmatics> Okay I had to refresh
[02:01] == neobrain has changed nick to YourNewNick
[02:02] == Arithmatics [af883541@gateway/web/freenode/ip.175.136.53.65] has quit [Client Quit]
[02:02] == random528 has changed nick to Arithmatics
[02:02] <Bond697> if you want an actual source, though, neimod said he found multiple simple ways to detect it
[02:03] <Bond697> god damn it mirc
[02:03] <Arithmatics> Okay thank you for the clarification. So basically, because it's easy to detect, it should be easier to block?
[02:04] <Bond697> it stopped showing me new lines at "[12:56] <random528> I mean GovanifY mentioned that it may just be using "broked" catridge commands but I just wanna know if this is the case"
[02:04] <StapleButter> one way would be attempting to use whatever special commands they implemented for controlling the cart
[02:05] <StapleButter> (although they could have made the cart acknowledge the command but return the same thing as a normal cart would when receiving an unknown command)
[02:05] <Bond697> i think neimod said it's roughly a 1 line fix to block the card
[02:05] <StapleButter> oh and unrelatedly
[02:06] <StapleButter> someone gave me a model that could be a nice banner for blargSNES
[02:06] <StapleButter> how would I go about converting a .obj model to a banner file?
[02:06] <Arithmatics> So.. it literally is a 1:1 emulation of a retail cart?
[02:08] <Vappy> no. if it was really 1:1 there would be no way to block it.
[02:08] <Vappy> it's just close enough to get past any current checks

tl;dr
basically it's confirmed that neimod, the guy who managed to gain full kernel access on an unmodified 3DS here found multiple easy ways to detect Sky3DS and that blocking it is roughly a 1 line fix.

Sky3DS could be blocked on 9.5. If a homebrew dev can detect it, Nintendo will definitely detect it. My bets are on blocking since it's THAT easy.

 

[tony_2018]

Surprisingly........it should've been done in 9.4 but why wasn't it?

 

[Muskusrat]

Being able to detect the card does not mean it is easy to block the card. If it was that easy nintendo eould have done it buy now. Nintendo will have a copy of each flash card has soon as it is released, and debug the crap out of it to find out how the hardware / software works. So if it was wasy to block, it would have been by now.

 

[Kioku]

Surprisingly........it should've been done in 9.4 but why wasn't it?

Maybe they're busy focusing on a more damaging product? The Sky3DS can be blocked, there's no doubt about it. It doesn't mean that it should have been blocked with the first update.

 

[Muskusrat]

Surprisingly........it should've been done in 9.4 but why wasn't it?

9.4 proberly fixed something important that got broken in 9.3 and has nothing to do with flascards

 

[tony_2018]

Maybe they're busy focusing on a more damaging product? The Sky3DS can be blocked, there's no doubt about it. It doesn't mean that it should have been blocked with the first update.

GW already blocked on 9.3 and 9.4. So was the smea exploit. So.........who else would it be other than sky3ds?

 

[Kioku]

GW already blocked on 9.3 and 9.4. So was the smea exploit. So.........who else would it be other than sky3ds?

An error on their part more than likely. Why is it important? Give it time. The Sky will fall.

 

[Arithmatics]

GW already blocked on 9.3 and 9.4. So was the smea exploit. So.........who else would it be other than sky3ds?

It's speculated that a major revision (10.x) will block Sky3DS. usually the small revisions are just bug fixes. It just so happens to be that 9.3 fixed a bug that sspwn required to work.

If anything heck who knows. maybe 9.5 will be the end of Sky3DS

I was on the fence. Now I've walked past the Gateway. get it? get it?

 

[tony_2018]

It's speculated that a major revision (10.x) will block Sky3DS. usually the small revisions are just bug fixes. It just so happens to be that 9.3 fixed a bug that sspwn required to work.

If anything heck who knows. maybe 9.5 will be the end of Sky3DS

I was on the fence. Now I've walked past the Gateway. get it? get it?

I really don't think it was a "just so happens" situation. Once the news broke out about smea exploit, 9.3 was release. Soon to follow, and I mean really soon, was the 9.4 release. Firmware updates can continued to be speculated but the one thing that comes to mind is what the enduser should be thinking, they need to understand that THERE IS NO GUARANTEE for future proofing. So coming onto a forum and blasting a team for not releasing an update, blasting a team for building card that an't be updated, its just plain idiotic.

Asking questions like " will it be blocked in the future" and "why does support suck" are just one of the many I've seen so many damn times.

 

[Phantom_User]

Called it.

 

[Gamemaster1379]

Perhaps they're letting SKY3DS run free for a bit because of how it handles headers. It's a lot harder to detect Gateway cards online given the premise of how headers are injected or ripped straight from the retail cart. You may have a few duplicate headers online but it's hard to spot the legitimate one from the injected one in that case.


That I understand; SKY3DS has a template file of headers and it injects them to handle online. I very seriously doubt that the headers are dynamic and are likely are identical across all carts. In that case, it's a lot easier to identify cart users when several hundred of a header keeps showing up.

 

[Arithmatics]

In that case, it's a lot easier to identify cart users when several hundred of a header keeps showing up.

this is why Sky3DS is on thin ice.

 

[drozee78]

my kiddo's 3ds is running 8.2 will the gateway one work the way it is or will i need sky3ds? trying to figure this all out and just confusing myself it seems

 

[piratesephiroth]

my kiddo's 3ds is running 8.2 will the gateway one work the way it is or will i need sky3ds? trying to figure this all out and just confusing myself it seems

According to their website, Gateway will work on that fw.

 

[drozee78]

According to their website, Gateway will work on that fw.

thank you. i want to order one of these for him for xmas. Much appreciated!! have a happy holiday whatever you celebrate surrounded by your friends and family

 

[guitarheroknight]

thank you. i want to order one of these for him for xmas. Much appreciated!! have a happy holiday whatever you celebrate surrounded by your friends and family

Hold on a second, It hasnt been confirmed that the lower firmware version theyre expanding the compatibility is 8.x. It could be 7.x for all we know. If you want to buy your kid something he might be actually play before Christmass the sadly I would suggest a Sky3DS. If its not meant for this Christmas and the kid can wait then definitely go with GW, even though they said in an email that support for lower firmware is coming later. So first theyre gonna release the 9.0 - 9.2 the the lower firmware version. Dont take my word but thats what ive read.