Gambling, discussion thereof.

FAST6191

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So I was catching up on extra credits and saw their gambling episode (link at the end) and from it I got the adult equivalent of the Sesame Street problem (kids coming into school and pronouncing the character Z as Zee and not Zed as it is in UK English because they had watched said show). In this case the baseline perception of gambling being the US take on the matter, one rather different to the UK perception and also the Australian one (I am only familiar with it because various shows from The Chaser covered it). Just to clarify where the US seems to have a bit of a religious hangover (see also sex and alcohol) the UK has betting shops on every corner, if you want to gamble with your friends for real money then nobody cares, there are a thousand online betting options that go directly to and from your bank, and you can do it in the pub (many do for pay packets if you get paid in cash) and nobody bats an eyelid really.

Personally I find gambling boring as you like. For whatever reason I can run numbers and analyse games pretty well and money is not something which excites me a great deal. I have no moral objection to it and if with friends in such a place where there is an expectation of play I just write off whatever I put down (which makes the cost per unit time of gambling rather expensive for the fun obtained). To that end any real interaction I have is when the gambling companies screw up and their enticement offers I can abuse for some free cash*, or when gambling is used as an end run around some kind of system (the concept of spread betting being basically a mirror of the stock market which allows anybody to play the market if they want to, https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-spread-betting-why-do-most-people-lose-money covers some of it).
The psychology of it, the anthropology of it (where do you think all the money for those "beat the house" TV shows and films comes from?) and the interactions of the gambling world with the system I find to be rather fascinating.

*older one but at a time they offered matched bets (they match what you put in). Simple game 2:1 odds, win or lose outcome (no draw). You bet 5 in one place, matched to make 10, 5 in another set the other way and also matched to pay 10. 20 gets paid either way, you only put in 10 and thus walk away 10 richer regardless of the outcome.

At the same time said episode covered some of the skins based gambling in games that I was largely unaware of, certainly unaware of the mechanics of. From where I sit it I have no care for skins if they are not functionally altering the game, and indeed the attempts to instil some visual appeal tend to make me more visible so forget that one.

Video

To that end topic of the thread is talk some on gambling. Most things will fly here if they are gambling related.
 

Quantumcat

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Sadly Poker is banned in my state (ACT) so you can't play tournaments at the local pub. The only establishment with a license is the casino but that means it is just full of professionals and you can't make any easy money. A lot of people drive across the border into NSW though, and play at a pub there. They also recently banned online poker country wide. It is really sad, I hate when we are going backwards instead of progressing.

I'm glad you have seen The Chaser :)
 

Ryccardo

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skins based gambling
Would you mind explaining that?
I first heard of it a couple of days ago on reddit, and from what I've understood (people betting on the chance of whatever, wagering normally tradeable in-game items) I just don't see the issue...
 

FAST6191

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Re the chaser. If there is a piss take/semi satirical news show going on for somewhere you can bet I am aware of it.

Would you mind explaining that?
I first heard of it a couple of days ago on reddit, and from what I've understood (people betting on the chance of whatever, wagering normally tradeable in-game items) I just don't see the issue...
As mentioned I quite literally had it explained by the video I linked at the end of the opening post, one I had just watched. 3.55 in that has the start if it or 4.50 or so if you want to get right into it. To that end I might not be the best one to ask about specifics. It was more that it acted as a standin for currency and if you are in a place where that it illegal it gets tricky, especially if you have no oversight, do a bunch of shady stuff, even if it not technically shady do abstract currency (points/tokens/whatever, as we all know people have great mental models for that sort of thing) and don't restrict it by age (apparently it is a tragedy when kids gamble).
The following goes into more detail
 

Quantumcat

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Re the chaser. If there is a piss take/semi satirical news show going on for somewhere you can bet I am aware of it.
Have a look at Backberner, there are probably some on YouTube. Used to be my favourite show and I was so mad when they cancelled it. Slightly "smarter" than the Chaser (without the attention grabbing stunts like trying to drive into parliament house dressed as Osama bin laden). The references to the current news of the day would probably make no sense now though
 
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Youkai

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Well you could count buying Stock Shares and doing binary trading as gambling as well ....

I never really went into a casino or whatever and played with my money, especially as I learned that money is nothing you play with BUT
doing trades and such you don't really see the money so it feels different ... I bought some shares (and I was lucky after they fall 20% they raised up so that in the end I made +25% ... was really angry that I did not buy 2 weeks later as they would have been so cheap than)
And again I tired my luck with binary trading (I think I even opened a thread here) and I won 100% in no time ! but just a short time later I was down to -50% and took the rest of my money back ... this really is just a game based on luck.
Even though there are "tricks" how to win money you need to money for it, like doubling up every time you loose so that when you win next time you will be in + again ... not easy done if you are not rich and loose 3-4 times in a row.
 

Polopop123

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There isnt really any 'luck' to gambling. With some simple maths you can easily break the whole game.

Bet X amount on red. If you lose, bet 2X on blue. If you lose again, bet 4X on red etc etc. Where X=amount of money you're willing to bet, and X is a constant until you win where you can change it to another number.. The amount of profit you make will be equal to X
E.G.
Bet 1 on blue. LOSE. Bet 2 on red. LOSE. Bet 4 on blue. LOSE. Bet 8 on red. LOSE. Bet 16 on blue. WIN
Bets placed=1+2+4+8+16=31
Total won=16x2=32
Profit=32-31=1
If your initial bet is €4, your profit will be €4.
 

FAST6191

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There are plenty of actual chance based games out there in casinos.

Your example mostly applies to roulette and similar games but can be tweaked for simplistic card games, or indeed anything with a 2:1 payout (for roulette that would be an outsider bet https://www.roulette-king.com/roulette-king-articles.php?article=36 , most of which tend not to be 2:1 and more break even or single chip return). Minimums for such things are usually 5. For roulette this also ignores 0 and maybe even 00 (and the sorts of wheels I see available for small bets are small which increases the chance of those and thus actually skew your red/black or even/odd bet), and ignores any option for a rake the casino might have. Some might also have max values but we will leave that for now.

Equally
5,10,20,40,80,160
Cumulatively
5,15,35,75,155,315

I agree the probability of more than about 7 failures in a row for a 50/50 chance event is in the sub 1% range, though I would want a bit more certainty still.

You want to make something like 50 and that shoots up to 6400 you need to have available to put down if we are doing the 7 chances.
 

FAST6191

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Not into Gambling at all. Stupid game and risk!
In that case the extra credits thing I linked at the start mentioned a lot of gambling companies are pulling from more general computer games for their newer offerings, thus making them a skill based affair, as opposed to something like a slot machine where you basically pull a lever. Does this change anything for you?

I once played a tetris version of such a thing in a pub, the controls were awful though so I did not enjoy it because of that. Object of the game was not tetris, or vs tetris, as much as the puzzle/challenge modes you get in some of the newer titles and slightly older Japanese ones (clear a line above this height, all this type of piece, get so many lines in the next ?? seconds, clear a line at this highlighted point...).

On risk then what if it is managed sensibly? Go out with mates and by the time you have paid for a meal, some drinks and entry into a club (or maybe a show beforehand) you can be out a fair bit, comparable to a mild night in a casino or betting parlour. As stated at the opening post I would find an evening in a betting shop boring as you like but to each their own and I can see others maybe enjoying such a thing.
 

grossaffe

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There isnt really any 'luck' to gambling. With some simple maths you can easily break the whole game.

Bet X amount on red. If you lose, bet 2X on blue. If you lose again, bet 4X on red etc etc. Where X=amount of money you're willing to bet, and X is a constant until you win where you can change it to another number.. The amount of profit you make will be equal to X
E.G.
Bet 1 on blue. LOSE. Bet 2 on red. LOSE. Bet 4 on blue. LOSE. Bet 8 on red. LOSE. Bet 16 on blue. WIN
Bets placed=1+2+4+8+16=31
Total won=16x2=32
Profit=32-31=1
If your initial bet is €4, your profit will be €4.
See how fast you go broke doing that.
 

FAST6191

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I try to avoid gambling money, and stick to gambling stuff like sweets.

God, why do I still act like a little kid?
I have seen some articles mention gambling as an "adult" thing to be doing, however I have never in the wild seen or had it come at me as something I or someone else should be doing to be seen as masculine or adult. Contrast driving, drinking, whoring it up, working lots, getting a mortgage, having kids... all of which I have had come at me, people I have been observing or friends if they are not participating in such things.
 
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This comes to mind. An interesting point is to be made here.

Anyways, being someone who literally grew up in Las Vegas, I don't have any quarrels with gambling. If you do it, that's fine, I really don't care. It is up to the individual to exercise careful moderation and not gamble all of your money away.

America is a pretty individualistic society in general, so it baffles me why gambling is outlawed in so many states. Individuals should be the ones held responsible for gambling. If you choose to gamble, you should be the one held responsible for your actions.

Don't get me wrong, there needs to be regulation of these casinos and gambling houses to a degree, to make sure that these businesses aren't royally screwing you over, but past a certain point, the onus is on you.
 

Polopop123

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i bet you £20. you will gamble.

if i lose i bet you £40. you will gamble.

if i lose again, i bet you £80. you will gamble.

if i lose again, i bet you £160. you will gamble.

If my initial bet is £20, my profit will be £20.
Challenge accepted. I’ll stream my whole life on Twitch so you can make sure U don’t gamble
 
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