Hacking Fat/Fat32, does it matter?

[neogba]

Thanks for any help I can get.

I'm choking here. I was hoping to report success by now but I can't get the thing to recognize half the time!

Still trying.

See I figured it being (Micro)SDHC and requireing an HC reader somewhere(noticing the Micro to SD adapter is just a pass threw and not HC.) it would also be USB 2.0 (surely "Class 6" is) and be best as FAT32 but FAT16 would be fine IF it's not speed crippled in the computer anymore.) Plus for 4GB I figured FAT32 too. yet for the DSTT, I don't know. Maybe it works best as FAT16. Then for cluster size and/or default, I don't know.

For the record SDHC = SD 2.0 spec,
and USB 2.0 is fast at USB 2.0 spec.

Will someone please tell me if a new and SDHC reader other than the one that comes with the DSTT fixes the problem. Then which FAT format spec do I best use for a 4GB Micro SDHC for in a DSTT. Please?

I can't tell if it the reader (probably), the drive or the formating.

EDITs: I got it formated FAT16 via a HP USB format utility I have used before. Now to see if it still is not USB 2.0. I guessing it the cheap reader even thought it's SDHC. Stupid weird.

Nope, a format again (HP USB tool) back to FAT32 and remove and reinsert it still says it would be better to plug it into a USB 2.0 port, which I'm doing! I don't suppose the XP hotfix trashed my 2.0? It is positively in a 2.0 port on a 2.0 PCI card that I have been using for fast 2.0 for a long time.

Oh yeah, I always safely remove the USB befor I yank it out. Always. ..case you wondered.

It's official. my good USB 2.0 4GB regular stick reads as 2.0 but with this flash or reader, it says not 2.0 when I plug it into the same hole. That speed in unacceptable! Is it (all) the reader guys?

I'm off to check the partition to see if it still has that 4 MEGA Byte "empty" space before the main partition. This ha d better not turn out to be DRM crap! I know some flash drives come with DRM.

 

[neogba]

Mine is a 4GB HC

1. Do you have a blank partition space on the flash drive; in front of the one partition? (remember partitioning comes before formating). I erased (and recreated) the partition and didn't just reformat the moved up one that came with. Could that empty; front space have thrown the DSTT?

2. SDHC may be not USB 2.0???? I think the cheap reader might not be USB 2.0 even if it is SD(HC) 2.0. help!

3. Many people here are saying FAT(16) works faster and better on SDHC! True? I do know that long files names are now working on FAT16. With (Kubuntu) open software FAT32 is more convenient (a small little) because you can access it as user; not root. I'll have to keep that icon ready for the file browser as root (super user administrator). If you do not run as dangerous admin(like everyone does) with Win XP you'll have the same problem.

4. I could not get it to take 64K with either FAT or FAT32. I used defaults.

5. I used the HP tool to format but I don't know that it's any better. There might be something to flash drives that's different or needs tending to with formating. (like the SDHC patch for Windows).

6. I'm guessing the DSTT likes FAT(16) better. I'm off to check it.

7. I think "defraging" programs may trash your flash and it's not needed so avoid them until you know for sure.

I'd really like to hear feedback on different readers? HC? USB2.0? Speed?

 

[twit21]

The error you're getting looks like this?

If so, then you're running into a device driver bug that I've never found a fix for. I get the same error with my digital camera (which is very much USB 2.0). It's annoying but harmless, and you can turn off error reporting for your USB controller in Windows if it bugs you that much.

 

[neogba]

That's the one but see, I'm not getting the speed either.

EDIT: My new flash partition is now taking up the entire drive and formated FAT(16). Verified by qtparted. DRM?

 

[twit21]

One thing I've noticed about the two file systems is that files from your computer will always copy to a FAT16 file system faster than a FAT32 system. Just because it's slower doesn't mean you're not getting the USB 2.0 speed unless it's taking like 10 minutes to move a 10MB file.

 

[neogba]

It's working, kinda. Copies seems to hang a while. Some more than others. Then sometimes too, the card will just stop working; until I safely remove and replug it.

FAT(16) is faster on the DSTT by a bit. The menu is a bit more snappy.

Tried my first alternate skin. Great!

 

[neogba]

Shoooooooot!

I tried writing to the drive via Windows XP fully updated (w/SDHC hotfix too) and it ate my drive!

I AM GOING TO HAVE TO REFORMAT AGAIN!

Well, FAT32 didn't work and FAT(16) didn't work. Man!

I guess FAT(16) worked best as it was quicker (sufficient) in the DSTT OS menu and FAT32 was broken slow. It lagged terribly.

So I don't know (STILL) what the problem is. I can get it to work but it's way to slow and error prone on the transferring.

Now, XP is just saying, it needs to be formated!

Are you guys having the same problem?

1. Is it a bad flash drive?

2. Is is a bad reader?

3. Are these SDHC problems? Does no computer work right with them yet?

4. Do you have an Micro SD "HC"? Do you use the reader that came with the DSTT with SDHC? Have you nearly filled it without problems?

Testing: I had not yet formated with the HP (flash) format tool and with FAT32. I did that as a test. The menu does not seem slow this time but I have loaded many games yet.

Windows showed a blank drive, no label and no files that I put on it. Weird. I figured Windows had to recognize the new hardware. Now, it's hanging and not responding on some writes. Then it reported IO errors. Ahhhhhhhhh!

I do not believe their is any physical connection problem.

Has any one wrote to their HC flash drive off and on (periodically) with absolutely no problems. If so, then it's my reader or my Flash. Otherwise it's a HC problem. Maybe even specific to 4GB.

Under 4GB I would do FAT(16). Over 4GB I would do FAT32. Right at 4GB I don't know which is best.

I think there's a 512 file limit (with large file names) in the root director of FAT(16) formats. This might become a problem.

 

[neogba]

VFAT improvements over classic FAT(16) include long file names and up to 4GB. Then there's FAT32.

VFAT:
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/fileVFAT-c.html

 

[twit21]

Have you tried a different reader? A lot of people have problems with the chintzy little reader that comes with the DSTT. Mine works okay, but I don't trust it to do more than occasional reading to drop ROMs on friends' computers. I use the adapter in conjunction with my trusty 23-in-1 reader for writing.

 

[OSW]

i usually use fat16 on most of my memory.

acekard rpg's nand: fat16 because it makes the gui alot faster (opening folders).

2gb kingston used in the acekard: fat32, because i notice no performance deficit with it, and for space economy because i have alot of homebrew related files on it.

1gb kingston with supercard one: formatted fat16. havent noticed any difference with them.

ezflash deluxe with sandisk 1gb: fat16 64kb clusters (makes things go a bit faster).

i only use 64k clusters with my slot two card, because i lose ALOT of space economy with my other card contents (50-100 megs)

 

[neogba]

Thank for the input guys. It helps!

I finally got it to recognize fully and did a reformat as FAT(16) AKA VFAT-16 (4GB is the new limit for V-FAT16) using XP (not HP tool; just to test). Then I quickly went to laying down the DSTT OS and files but it hung on big DS files. Replugging sometimes let's me try again but it will hang and then it will disappear (as if not plugged in).

I hear you guys saying you don't trust the reader. As to readers, I tried my camera but it's not SD and HC, so nothing. Non-HC owner can do stuff like that. I tried my HP printer via it's built-in SD card slot and the Micro to SD adapter. It showed up and got my hopes up. While it was somewhat "seen" it would not format (the HC). So I need another MicroSDHC reader.

While it could be the flash drive (some report these errors) and it could be the reader(with it's bad reports also) , I suspect the reader more because it works while in the DSTT and DS lite. I have manage to get some files on it, it seems to get worse (heat maybe) and nothing get finished. What's more? I report these errors act similarly on both XP and Kubuntu and it seems to get both systems out of whack, such that they both require a reboot to try again. XP would even hang until I unplugged the flash/USB (or turned the system off).

So I report these facts for your benefit:

It actually start a 64MB file write, quite fast (2 seconds or so) but gets about 75% and hangs. It Sometimes finishes really slowly; it then hangs just before closing the file and only sometimes successful. Yuk!

FYI. I can see a very fast speed is possible. it just doesn't keep it up. Oh, bulk attempts (53 big DS files) report an estimate of over an hour (if it didn't hang and crash). That could be done at full speed in under 7 minutes; if it worked!

As a matter of fact these cheap reader have the following stated specs, FYI. REF: DealExtream packaging specs pics.

http://www.dealextreme.com/photogallery.dx/sku.7120~seQ.5

USB 2.0
SDHC 2.0 (Edit: This is not 100% true!)
Color doesn't matter.
Up to 8GB MicroSDHC supposedly tested; named Kensington but not A-data brand. Edit: I think it's slower cards only.

I wonder, what is the problem with these reader exactly? Is it a heat defect? ...Just poorly made? Cheap component failure? Are they lying about the spec (and/or got them mixed up) or is there a brand matching issue (non-standard)?

Yep, everything that finished a transfer works in the DS, even though I don't have a lot of hours on it yet. This point directly to the reader and not the flash. Therefore the bad reports about A-Data, might just be the readers and not the flash. FYI

At least the Flash is reading (on the DS) without error. That much seems clear.

NOTE: Oh wait, I can use DSOrganize or something and move a file and thus do write test on the DS. But the saves are writing OK, so yeah, I think it's working on the DS.

I'll have to hunt and buy another reader. So there goes my savings (and mainly time) from buying at DealExtreme!

Oh YEAH! I noticed in charts on the internet that a given reader reads and writes at different speeds on the same flash drive! It will be difficult to know which chipset inside and reader design is rated faster. We are talking noticeable differences here.

Note that each card and of different sizes, has several readers tested with it (MicroSD):

http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/index.ht...-cards-sdu.html

Edit: Yep, it appears to be the (DSTT) reader(/writer). Another "HC" reader and plugged to my desktop PCI card USB 2.0 port, blazes.
http://gbatemp.net/index.php?showtopic=74368

 

[R2DJ]

When sdhc cards are formated in fat they work faster (checken it and it is true).

Yeah that is true. I formatted my card to FAT32 and the DSTT's scroller is lagging 2 seconds. But when it's formatted to FAT, it's fast.

 

[Sephi]

I was just wondering what the allocation size should be for my 4GB MicroSDHC, since theres several options and this is something I know little about.

 

[Dr.Norton]

actualy the reason why yours "cant" be formated to 16 is because most micro sd cards that are 2gigs are already in fat16.

My sandisk 2gig came that way aswell.