Digital drawing...where to start?

[YayMii]

I'm just not sure if drawing without a screen would be easy. But it seems you guys here have quite a trust for it and, since they are below 150 BGN, which I can easily afford, I'd say the Wacom Bamboos look like the best current solution. I'm still open for other ideas.

Keep in mind that the screen-less drawing tablets still track your pen when you hover, so it's not likely that you'll lose your position when you're just lifting it off the surface.
also, if you're going to be playing osu! with it, you should hover the whole time to avoid accelerating the wear on your pen nibs or wrecking the surface from the fast patterns.

 

[ilman]

Draw image
Ink image
Take photo
Vector from photo
Color vector
Shade vector
Add shiny spots
Add possibly even gradients to shading/shiny spots

- Added note
In the event of a visual novel-like requirement, keep layers separate for the different body parts that are going to be moved (mouth, eyes, arms, body) so you don't have to bitch with it later.

This is also a feasible solution, but I usually make tons of mistakes in my drawings, which I would correct if rubbers didn't leave huge black stains around the corrected part. When I drew on my friend's iPad, I loved being able to fix any mistake in less than a second. That's why I'd like to have a touchscreen and a stylus. And I won't be drawing anything in a visual novel type of quality. It's just sprites for RPG and platformer characters with some weapons, armor and terrain thrown into the mix. Nothing that requires high-quality shading or complex stuff like that.

 

[ilman]

Keep in mind that the screen-less drawing tablets still track your pen when you hover, so it's not likely that you'll lose your position when you're just lifting it off the surface.
also, if you're going to be playing osu! with it, you should hover the whole time to avoid accelerating the wear on your pen nibs or wrecking the surface from the fast patterns.

The hover sounds like it'll help a lot. Thanks for letting me know about it. Also, do these Wacom tablets detect fingers(like the touchscreen of the phone I'm typing this from ). That'll help me a lot since I'm used to playing Osu!droid with my fingers instead of a stylus. But it'll likely not be as comfortable.

 

[gamefan5]

I draw a LOT. Software I use with my Ipad is procreate. Hands down the BEST art app I have ever used. If feels natural using it.
http://procreate.si/
I suggest buying an Ipad only if you're SERIOUS about using it though.

 

[YayMii]

The hover sounds like it'll help a lot. Thanks for letting me know about it. Also, do these Wacom tablets detect fingers(like the touchscreen of the phone I'm typing this from ). That'll help me a lot since I'm used to playing Osu!droid with my fingers instead of a stylus. But it'll likely not be as comfortable.

The Bamboo Splash doesn't have touch, but the Bamboo Capture and higher does. But I won't advise using your fingers to play osu!, as the feature's not very accurate, and it's more like playing with an oversized laptop trackpad with mouse acceleration turned on. You're better off just learning how to play using the pen.

What do you mean by them easy and team cheat like hell?

I think what he means by 'team cheat like hell' is that he'd rather draw out images in vector, scan them, and shrink them until pixelated, rather than joining 'team easy' and simply drawing the sprites out yourself.

 

[jurassicplayer]

Heavier refining can be on the computer during vectoring.
You could just go with a slightly rough image, though major sort of flaws should be fixed (ie. the shoulder is disproportionate by an overly noticeable amount).

 

[ilman]

I draw a LOT. Software I use with my Ipad is procreate. Hands down the BEST art app I have ever used. If feels natural using it.
http://procreate.si/
I suggest buying an Ipad only if you're SERIOUS about using it though.

I actually want an iPad not only for drawing, but also for the App Store and I'd also like to be able to develop for iOS. But if you're saying that it's not good for beginners, I'll avoid it.

The Bamboo Splash doesn't have touch, but the Bamboo Capture and higher does. But I won't advise using your fingers to play osu!, as the feature's not very accurate, and it's more like playing with an oversized laptop trackpad with mouse acceleration turned on. You're better off just learning how to play using the pen.

OK, I guess touch-less works, as well.

I think what he means by 'team cheat like hell' is that he'd rather draw out images in vector, scan them, and shrink them until pixelated, rather than joining 'team easy' and simply drawing the sprites out yourself.

If that's what he meant, he obviously didn't read the note below the first post.

 

[gamefan5]

I actually want an iPad not only for drawing, but also for the App Store and I'd also like to be able to develop for iOS. But if you're saying that it's not good for beginners, I'll avoid it.

OK, I guess touch-less works, as well.

If that's what he meant, he obviously didn't read the note below the first post.

No what I mean by that is, you know... the Ipad price is rather steep. When I mean serious about it, I mean passionate about it!
Procreate is for all artists. From beginner to professional! Since you also want to develop for iOS, all the more reason to buy an Ipad. You'll be tackling 2 birds with one stone!

 

[YayMii]

If that's what he meant, he obviously didn't read the note below the first post.

Well, you could still draw vectors digitally, which would still technically be 'team cheat like hell'.

 

[ilman]

No what I mean by that is, you know... the Ipad price is rather steep. When I mean serious about it, I mean passionate about it!
Procreate is for all artists. From beginner to professional! Since you also want to develop for iOS, all the more reason to buy an Ipad. You'll be tackling 2 birds with one stone!

I'll probably keep away from the iPad until my scholarship arrives. By that time I will have a running build of the game on Android, which I'll try to port to iOS. Then I'll see if it's better to draw on the iPad and use it for future games.

 

[ouch123]

I haven't done spriting in a long time, but I'd agree with using a graphics tablet. Basically, you can just draw out all your sprites at a really high resolution, rough the colors* (you'll need to decide on your palette beforehand**), shrink to the proper resolution***, then fine-tune and add details (again, paying attention to the palette you decided on). Personally, I've always liked Monoprice Graphics Tablets for both their price and feature sets, though I grant that the pen could be made a bit better. All of their graphics tablets should be well below 150 BGN (closer to 75 BGN), and I've been quite satisfied with the model I own. I'd recommend at least giving it a shot, if you're interested.

*At this stage you're interested in just getting the lighting right, so that the basic forms of your sprites show through. Don't do highlights and other details at this step because it'd all end up wasted after shrinking (for the most part).
**You can change the palette as you continue to work with the sprite, but the idea is to remember to work in discrete colors, rather than continuous ones. A good example of this not being done as well as it could have been would be Finn's sprites in the DS Adventure Time game (very evident in his ducking sprites).
***Depending on how high-resolution you're talking and the style you're going for, palette concerns may not apply at all. If you're going for a Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix look then you probably don't need to pay attention to your palette or do any fine-tuning beyond what you'd do for just regular art (though you should always work at a higher resolution than the intended display resolution, in my opinion). On the other hand, you could still do HD but go with a style similar to Blazblue (which is just a tad smaller resolution than SF 2 HD Remix) or KoF XII/XIII, in which case paying attention to your palette and fine-tuning would certainly be musts.

 

[Walker D]

As ouch said, Monoprice is good ..the only "problem" is the battery loaded pen. But if you want to go as cheap as possible, stay with a Monoprice or a Wacom Bamboo

Also, if you want to draw with precision without a tablet (mouse only), I recommend that you try using vectors. Inkscape (it's free) and Adobe Illustrator are my favorites ...but you can mess around with vector on Gimp and Photoshop too..

 

[FAST6191]

Sorry, but I didn't get your answer very much.
What do you mean by them easy and team cheat like hell? I don't have a team. There's just one guy who gives some ideas and gets some functions done in my programs. He likes drawing in Paint and, even though his sprites are bad, I'm using them as placeholders for now.
Vector graphics? Why would I need those? I'm not aiming for infinitely high resolutions.
And, about which programs I use... well, I don't care. As long as it gets the job done and is noob-friendly.

Sorry I really should not type things out as I am falling asleep in my chair. Team easy and team cheat like hell are turns of phrase or possibly slang (it tends to pop up more if I am tired I am afraid) -- if you just pick at things in the fridge then as far as feeding yourself goes you have joined team easy, team cheat like hell is not team easy but it uses a few tricks to make it about the same thing but to the casual observer it looks like you put in the effort (sticking with the food example it would be stir fry -- should not take more than ten minutes and is easy to do but beats eating sausage rolls out of the fridge). I do this basically everywhere with everything I do and was encouraging you to do the same here for your game artwork.

True pixel art and to a slightly lesser extent the sort of game art you are heading for takes actual skills to make. You are really going to want a graphics tablet to do it well too, you can do it with a mouse but it is one of those learn on one and then move to the other situations. Also though the screen sporting tablets are really nice it is actually not so bad -- you probably know how to type without looking at the keyboard, you now how to use a mouse to do the same and that goes again for games. If you are thinking about it on something like a regular tablet I find it is more the 30 ms or more latency that is the killer as you are then trying to anticipate your movements and adjust accordingly which is a killer wherever it happens (teaching people to fire a gun is easy, teaching people to lead a target less so, teaching people to drive is easy, teaching people to anticipate a corner and react accordingly is hard, the less said about motorbikes and teaching people to do things like countersteering the better, teaching people to play an instrument is doable, teaching people to anticipate music and stay in time with others..., I see similar things teaching people to solder.......).

However you can cheat a lot and one of the ways I find to do this is to trace things using vector image editors, they then have the added bonus that you can round harsh edges off a bit and make your typical cartoon/game art if you need to and this extends into animation. You may not need/want infinitely high res but the simple ability to render things out on 4 different scales (and believe people when they say different scales in sprites require somewhat different skill sets/techniques). You can do this with photos, hand drawings (as others were already suggesting and more)

Example
One photo of a car
http://www.roadfly.com/new-cars/wp-...arger-police-package/dodge-police-charger.jpg

Thumbnail -- no evidence is needed that I should never touch a proper image editor, even less is needed to demonstrate I should never touch a vector image editor but even with that here is 5 minutes work plus another 2 because I was inspired and thought I would try copying your avatar.

 

[ilman]

I haven't done spriting in a long time, but I'd agree with using a graphics tablet. Basically, you can just draw out all your sprites at a really high resolution, rough the colors* (you'll need to decide on your palette beforehand**), shrink to the proper resolution***, then fine-tune and add details (again, paying attention to the palette you decided on). Personally, I've always liked Monoprice Graphics Tablets for both their price and feature sets, though I grant that the pen could be made a bit better. All of their graphics tablets should be well below 150 BGN (closer to 75 BGN), and I've been quite satisfied with the model I own. I'd recommend at least giving it a shot, if you're interested.

*At this stage you're interested in just getting the lighting right, so that the basic forms of your sprites show through. Don't do highlights and other details at this step because it'd all end up wasted after shrinking (for the most part).
**You can change the palette as you continue to work with the sprite, but the idea is to remember to work in discrete colors, rather than continuous ones. A good example of this not being done as well as it could have been would be Finn's sprites in the DS Adventure Time game (very evident in his ducking sprites).
***Depending on how high-resolution you're talking and the style you're going for, palette concerns may not apply at all. If you're going for a Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix look then you probably don't need to pay attention to your palette or do any fine-tuning beyond what you'd do for just regular art (though you should always work at a higher resolution than the intended display resolution, in my opinion). On the other hand, you could still do HD but go with a style similar to Blazblue (which is just a tad smaller resolution than SF 2 HD Remix) or KoF XII/XIII, in which case paying attention to your palette and fine-tuning would certainly be musts.

I usually buy my tech from Amazon UK and both the Wacom Bamboo and the Monoprice are similarly priced(40 pounds, 100 BGN). Which one of them is better? The Wacom seems to be a lot more popular, so I guess it's better, right?

Response to *: While I do intend on adding some lighting, i can accomplish all other lighting using shaders. And, yeah, I know that very small details will be rendered obsolete when I shrink the sprite.

Response to **: Why would I need to change the palette? After all, each frame is like the previous, but with small changes. I don't see why I'd need to change it. And could you point out what's wrong with Finn's sprites? They look pretty good to me.

Response to ***: I can't draw nearly as good as the guys who made Blazbue and Street Fighter 2 HD. But Blazblue's art style will be a rough estimate of what I want. Just not as good.

As ouch said, Monoprice is good ..the only "problem" is the battery loaded pen. But if you want to go as cheap as possible, stay with a Monoprice or a Wacom Bamboo

Also, if you want to draw with precision without a tablet (mouse only), I recommend that you try using vectors. Inkscape (it's free) and Adobe Illustrator are my favorites ...but you can mess around with vector on Gimp and Photoshop too..

Oh, so the Monoprice has some problems? Does the Bamboo have any similar issues?

Sorry I really should not type things out as I am falling asleep in my chair. Team easy and team cheat like hell are turns of phrase or possibly slang (it tends to pop up more if I am tired I am afraid) -- if you just pick at things in the fridge then as far as feeding yourself goes you have joined team easy, team cheat like hell is not team easy but it uses a few tricks to make it about the same thing but to the casual observer it looks like you put in the effort (sticking with the food example it would be stir fry -- should not take more than ten minutes and is easy to do but beats eating sausage rolls out of the fridge). I do this basically everywhere with everything I do and was encouraging you to do the same here for your game artwork.

True pixel art and to a slightly lesser extent the sort of game art you are heading for takes actual skills to make. You are really going to want a graphics tablet to do it well too, you can do it with a mouse but it is one of those learn on one and then move to the other situations. Also though the screen sporting tablets are really nice it is actually not so bad -- you probably know how to type without looking at the keyboard, you now how to use a mouse to do the same and that goes again for games. If you are thinking about it on something like a regular tablet I find it is more the 30 ms or more latency that is the killer as you are then trying to anticipate your movements and adjust accordingly which is a killer wherever it happens (teaching people to fire a gun is easy, teaching people to lead a target less so, teaching people to drive is easy, teaching people to anticipate a corner and react accordingly is hard, the less said about motorbikes and teaching people to do things like countersteering the better, teaching people to play an instrument is doable, teaching people to anticipate music and stay in time with others..., I see similar things teaching people to solder.......).

However you can cheat a lot and one of the ways I find to do this is to trace things using vector image editors, they then have the added bonus that you can round harsh edges off a bit and make your typical cartoon/game art if you need to and this extends into animation. You may not need/want infinitely high res but the simple ability to render things out on 4 different scales (and believe people when they say different scales in sprites require somewhat different skill sets/techniques). You can do this with photos, hand drawings (as others were already suggesting and more)

Example
One photo of a car
http://www.roadfly.com/new-cars/wp-...arger-police-package/dodge-police-charger.jpg

Thumbnail -- no evidence is needed that I should never touch a proper image editor, even less is needed to demonstrate I should never touch a vector image editor but even with that here is 5 minutes work plus another 2 because I was inspired and thought I would try copying your avatar.
View attachment 3069

Ok, I get what you meant before.

And, wow, the outlines are that easy to make with vectors? That's great. I gotta watch a tutorial on how to use 'em.
Also, about getting used to screenlessness(if that's even a real word ), it shouldn't be a problem. While, personally, I like to watch the keyboard while I type, not the screen, I'm sure it won't be an issue when it comes to the tablet.

 

[ilman]

Sorry for double posting, but I noticed something bad about the Wacom Bamboo Pen - the screen size.
Will 5.8"x3.6" be big enough for drawing terrain and other big stuff?

 

[FAST6191]

Sorry for double posting, but I noticed something bad about the Wacom Bamboo Pen - the screen size.
Will 5.8"x3.6" be big enough for drawing terrain and other big stuff?

Do you not zoom in an out when editing?/if you are doing everything in the background in one go you are doing it wrong or you have a very simple design.

 

[Ethevion]

Oh, so the Monoprice has some problems? Does the Bamboo have any similar issues?

I've had my Bamboo Splash since January and still no problems here.

 

[ilman]

Do you not zoom in an out when editing?/if you are doing everything in the background in one go you are doing it wrong or you have a very simple design.

Just asking if the small screen size will bug me. I know I can zoom.

I've had my Bamboo Splash since January and still no problems here.

Is this one the Splash? Since it doesn't say in the description.

 

[Ethevion]

Is this one the Splash? Since it doesn't say in the description.

Not sure why it doesn't say one the page but that looks just like the splash and it's at the same price point. Looks like it's discounted right now too.

 

[ilman]

Not sure why it doesn't say one the page but that looks just like the splash and it's at the same price point. Looks like it's discounted right now too.

Good, I found it in some local shops online, so I may be able to test it before buying.