Devil's Advocate: The 3DS is not god

Discussion in '3DS - Console, Accessories and Hardware' started by Guild McCommunist, Aug 9, 2010.

Aug 9, 2010
  1. Guild McCommunist
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    Member Guild McCommunist (not on boat)

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    I've decided I'll start trying to do Devil's Advocate threads. Basically I'll take a popular issue (video game related, if you request abortion or religion I will slap you with a raw salmon) and debate the "unpopular" side of it. By "unpopular" I mean "whatever people here don't like". So yeah, I'm trolling. That was a joke.

    Disclaimer: What I may say may not be my point of view. I am purely making the argument for sake of intelligent debate.

    Anyway, the 3DS was finally made into a public extravaganza in E3. It was showed up, games were announced, trailers were made, and Miyamoto made probably the best face at the Kinect booth. It was met with great reception from fans and critics alike. Mostly the fans. With people hunting through their couch cushions for those few extra cents to save up for the 3DS, many people failed to realize that the 3DS may not be what we all think it's cracked up to be.

    On paper the 3DS looks great. Awesome graphics, 3D without glasses, an analog stick, touch controls, and a whole lot of other stuff. But yet again, most things look great on paper. I'll use the game COP: The Recruit as an example. COP has...

    - A 3D open world that runs at smooth framerates.
    - A variety of side quests and tasks to do
    - Shoot guns, drive cars, and do many other things in a variety of missions
    - Touch based side tasks and integrated PDA usage with the touch screen.

    In real life, if you played the game, you'll see...

    - Broken physics and clunky car controls
    - Horrific difficulty curve
    - Repetitive missions
    - Boring story
    - Jumbled and overcomplicated PDA
    - Useless touchscreen usage at times

    Yeah, COP was terrible. But until we played it, we all thought it was promising. Which brings us to he next point: How can you judge accurately?

    But first, if we're talking about games I also should bring up the 3DS announced library of games. Side note, if this section seems out of place it is, I typed the whole thing then realized I needed this so I threw it in there. The edit though was just to add this note about this section though. Anyway, the library does look impressive. Both lots of fun casual games and fun hardcore games. But that being said, just because something is announced doesn't mean it's an instant win. Like I said in COP, looks on paper can be deceiving. And we still don't have a lot of proper info. Trailers are, as we know, gussied up to look good. It takes the best parts of a game and sticks them into a small minute-long trailer. For all we know there can be 30 seconds of awesomeness in a game but hours of shit. Like Kid Icarus showed off some impressive looking stuff in its 3DS trailer, but a lot of it was animated video and the gameplay parts were still a little misleading. Trailers also don't show controls schemes often, let alone if they work, and they also don't show the low points of the game. Resident Evil Revelations didn't even have gameplay. It was simply a video you could fiddle around with. Metal Gear Solid: The Naked Sample, as much as I hate to say it, was just a pretty looking tech demo. Most things are simply tech demos. Some stuff didn't even get that far and just got screenies, which show even less. A picture means a thousand words but it also means at least a hundred questions. And a good amount of games didn't even get screenies but were simply announced. Nothing more, nothing less. And if you look for 3DS games that were announced with extensive info you'll find that list very, very small.

    I doubt any of you went to E3. I doubt any of you even got within 10 ft of a 3DS. But we're all making assumptions it's great based on game trailers, what games are coming to the 3DS, and nothing more but either controlled released footage by Nintendo of the 3DS or leaked cam footage that, if anything, indefinite. Critic impressions are there but critic impressions are also just as positive or negative as their bank accounts are and the deposits they get from big business video game companies. There's also of course the novelty factor. Get any new gizmo that isn't a hunk of shit and you'll think it's awesome. But given a few weeks the novelty wears off and you really have to see the device for what it really is. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't judge it until you have had it in your hands for a fair amount of time and if you can judge it with an unbiased mind.

    The 3DS also, at this point, lacks competition. There's nothing to compare it to. There's no PSP2 yet and the only other thing is probably the iPhone 4, but that's still borderline between a personal media device and a video game console. So it'll look amazing since it has no competition. If I make a machine that there's no market competition for then it'll look awesome since it doesn't have a comparison. Comparing the 3DS to anything at this point is like comparing the PS3 and the PS2 and seeing which one has better tech.

    Speaking of the PSP2, who knows how that'll be? First off, don't say the PSP was a bad system. It wasn't. It had good games, good functionality, and it was an overall satisfying console in general and a worthy product for Sony to have in the handheld market. I'd say the DS is better myself but the PSP definitely had an edge over the DS in terms of graphics, functionality, and that analog nub made a huge difference. The PSP2 for all we know could bring a lot to the table. 3DS graphics look good but what is Sony tops them? That'll be amazing looking. What if the PSP2 gets a great starting library. I mean Sony does have a largely impressive library at its fingers, putting some of their big ones onto the PSP2 development schedule can really turn the tide. And what if it brings another analog stick or nub? That's dual analog and it's been a standard for consoles for a bit now (and it works well too). Maybe it'll have a touchscreen too. Oh, and going off on a small rant here, pointing fingers and calling companies copycats is worthless. If you make a good product it doesn't matter what it rips off of. And most anything can be called a "copycat product" or "ripoff" since popular ideas make money, and things that make money become trends in the market, and trends in the market are implemented into products in that market. But anyway, we don't know how to stack the 3DS up yet until we have a litmus test.

    All in all, the 3DS should not be judged quickly and branded as fantastic. Until we have proper competition to compare it with and a more clear impression if it, we can't be stacking it up already.

    Now, that's my devil's advocate viewpoint. Prove me wrong! Really, please do, good arguments that are actually fun to debate are hard to come by. Be logical, be kind, be respectful, and we can all have a great debate [​IMG]
     


  2. KingVamp

    Member KingVamp Great... AETHER!

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    LOL I knew it was u who made the topic as soon as I read the title. I do not think you can compare any game that looks good ,but that was bad or any game to a game system.U got to admit 3D non-glasses on a portable is awesome [​IMG]!!!

    Yea 'cause the psp 2 may focus on what 3DS did not. Still do not want them stealing ideas at least something big.


    I'm getting it and the psp 2 if it good too.
     
  3. Guild McCommunist
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    Member Guild McCommunist (not on boat)

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    There's a thin line between "awesome" and "novelty". We still don't know if the 3D will be as clear as if it was with glasses or if it provides nearly as much depth. Again, we'll have to wait until we get our hands on it to know. Plus whether it'll be playable for extended periods of time and whether it'll be worth it over playing the game in standard mode (since speculation of lower framerates and blurrier visuals has cropped up) is still up for grabs.
     
  4. geoflcl

    Member geoflcl Permanent GBAtemp Newbie

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    Excellent little things, these Devil's Advocate type-things. I love me a good debate!

    Most of your "Good on paper" arguments are good points. The lack of playable games at E3 is actually quite odd... It was just tech demos, tech demos, tech demos. Granted, that's all we saw with the DS at its first E3, but considering Nintendo is looking to release the console rather soon (Before the end of the fiscal year, correct?), it's weird that there wasn't more playable stuff to showcase.

    However, the 3DS has some very reputable developers backing it. Kojima of the Metal Gear Solid series, Capcom of Resident Evil fame, Sora ltd., developers of Super Smash Brothers Brawl, and of course Nintendo themselves are all hard at work with 3DS titles of all different sorts. They're very reliable in terms of game quality, whereas your example, C.O.P. The Recruit, was developed by the rather unknown developer VD-Dev. Of course, just because a game is developed by a certain company doesn't always guarantee quality, but most would agree that the 3DS is in good hands at this point.

    And yes, since the 3DS boldly came first, Sony could always one-up them with an improved PSP system. And I agree, the PSP was a refutable console in terms of power, and quality games. However, the DS still sold more units and games. One thing that made the DS more attractive to consumers in the end was its more affordable asking price. I'm almost positive that when Christmas shopping, most parents were thinking "Gee, this PSP looks really neat. But why get it when the DS is so much cheaper?"

    The DS also went for a wide-appeal, "kid-friendly" approach, too. Like it or not, kids bag a lot of sold units. Heck, I've got three DS lites and a Phat at my house.

    Of course, I can't entirely speculate on how the previous DS did everything right economically. There was definitely some luck involved. But even when I look at it logically, and not just through a hype-train point of view, the 3DS seems to be shaping up to be quite the console. If Ninty uses what they've learned from their past systems, the 3DS is going to be yet another force to be reckoned with.

    EDIT: Crap, I forgot about the "novelty" thing. Yes, there's going to be some showy 3D effects going on. The DS was plagued similarly when tons of ridiculous touch-screen-fests came out for it. But some games ended up making great use of the touch screen and dual screen functionality. As long as developers once again try to push the boundaries of the 3DS in ways other than flashy, gimmicky 3D graphics displays, the functionality will definitely end up being more than mere novelty.
     
  5. Scott-105

    Member Scott-105 Bow to me. Please?

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    Huh, I never really thought about it that way. You prove a great point Guild!
     
  6. Guild McCommunist
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    Member Guild McCommunist (not on boat)

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    Well, there's still a lot of speculation on the 3DS release date. People want to believe it's for the holidays but I doubt that'll happen. There will probably be more playable demos at upcoming video game events. I don't think TGS is too far away.

    And for the series you noted, Resident Evil hasn't exactly been popular on handhelds. It's been known as a home console franchise. Metal Gear Solid though has had a surprisingly good track record for mobiles. Ghost Babel is classic and Peace Walker was excellent. Portable Ops... Not so much. And we've known cases of bad devs making good games and good devs making bad games, but those are rare cases. Good point indeed, hard to argue that one [​IMG]

    If we bothered measuring a console's merits by sales then we'd be lost. The PSP does sell software like crap but the PSP still has good games. And we all know awesome games that sold like crap. Beyond Good and Evil sold pretty bad. MadWorld sold bad. No More Heroes sold bad. Dead Space Extraction sold bad. So on and so forth. The PSP isn't a whole lot more expensive though, for a $200 bundle you get a PSP, a memory stick, and a game, while paying $190 (Right?) for a DSi XL nets you the system and a few crappy DSiWare titles. And there's not nearly as many DS/DSi game bundles as there should be, although some are pretty good (like the Bowser's Inside Story one which is probably the one happening right now).

    That novelty point you made was good though. The DS did have a lot of useless novelties but in the end the touchscreen really came through. Like the iPod Touch or iPhone. It had a lot of meh to get through but it finally started really getting the full extent of the touchscreen down. It doesn't just mean you can touch anything, but that you can create pretty much any controller you want. Analog sticks, buttons, what's on the HUD and what's not are all up to the devs. And things that seemed gimmicky or novelties in the past like motion controls are now pretty normal. Accelerometers are increasingly more popular in devices and all three consoles this gen are getting a form of motion controls. Really good point buddy [​IMG]
     
  7. Hadrian

    Former Staff Hadrian Better than Craigslist

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    I thought that most people thought that COP: The Recruit looked mediocre and crappy before it was released.
     
  8. granville

    Member granville GBAtemp Goat

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    To be fair Guild, i don't think COP is a very good example. Maybe you thought it looked good, but a lot of us could see through its GTA cloned hide and didn't really expect much. I never expected it to be good to be honest, though perhaps that's due to me not liking GTA either. Graphics didn't even look that good until you played it, trailers didn't do the graphics justice at all. You're right that it sucked, but i just don't think it ever looked very good even on paper...

    The thing that got my full attention of the 3DS was not the graphics or 3D effect, but the list of third party support. I'd honestly have been interested in the system due to this even if it was just another DS redesign. I just don't think all these developers would get behind the system just to make games that end up sucking and don't sell. The probability of that happening is very low. I've never seen such interest taken in a game system before release.

    As for playable games, sure it was lacking, but that's nothing new really. The same was true with the DS, and other systems as well. However, there has never been such a diverse lineup of tech demos actually shown that are indeed intended to become full games. They usually just show off demos to show what a system can do, but most of the games shown are really going to become actual games. And i seriously doubt every single game announced from some of the world's best game developers will end up sucking.

    As for the graphics, it's just an obvious plus that no bad can come of. We didn't really NEED awesome Wii-level graphics, but they're there and they won't get in the way. The 3D effect i can't comment on, though i'm a big fan of 3D as a whole.
     
  9. mangaTom

    Member mangaTom GBAtemp Fan

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    I really agree with Guild.I personally am very excited with the con itself but most of us are usually blinded of the other side of the story because marketing people usually present to us the good side of the product e.g. 3D,graphics,gyro blah2x(that's stating the obvious).One that adds to the hype is all the those tech demos of famous titles which some people think are actual games which actually are there just to show off the system,not the "game" itself.Well, 3DS is still at a very early stage in the gaming community and we can't really call it awesome unless we try it ourselves since people have different opinions on some matters. :unsure:But in my opinion 3ds has really a high potential as a handheld gaming con.
     
  10. Maz7006

    Member Maz7006 iSEXu

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    The great Hideo Kojima did say that the 3d-ness can get irritating (as in it does strain your eyes slightly) ... im kind of worried about this issue, i will indeed wait for game reviewers and user opinions this time round
     
  11. jan777

    Member jan777 motion control..? srsly? so 2008. 3DS is teh bombz

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    When it gets irritating,
    That's when you turn off the 3D
     
  12. dsfanatic5

    Member dsfanatic5 Team ICO Freak

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    I WILL prematurely base my assumptions that the 3DS will meet MY expectations.

    1. It can't be worse than the current DS Lite(i)(XL) models, which means I already like it more than my PSP, which I never play, save for emulators.

    2. The 3DS has better graphics than the DS Lite, so even if it didn't have 3D effects, it's still an upgrade.

    3. Nintendo handhelds have always held their ground, even though their competitors have always had superior hardware capabilities. The Atari Lynx, Sega GameGear, NEC TurboExpress, and NeoGeo Pocket Color should've crushed Nintendo, but they all failed in doing so (see Sony PSP).

    4. The game announcements are enough for me to want the 3DS, regardless.
     
  13. BadBloke

    Newcomer BadBloke Member

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    Well, I guess for some things you just have to take one's word. Nintendo has never failed to make a handheld made of pure awesome, so I don't see why they should fail now, after 20+ years. I don't think all the reviewers that were in the E3 were paid to say it was good, so I'll take the public opinion's word that the hardware is awesome. The rest is up to the game devs.

    This "Devil's Advocate" stuff is pretty fun, but still does not provide arguments that prove the 3DS is bad, just arguments that suggest "well, we don't know yet" which is always the case with any product until people actually get their hands on it.
     
  14. Midna

    Banned Midna Banned

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    Guild always seems to be coming in with a contrary opinion, even if this one is mostly for the sake of argument.

    Warning: Spoilers inside!
    Debate it is then. I'm in bold.
     
  15. dhjohn

    Member dhjohn GBAtemp Regular

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    I know it was pushing the borders of "handheld", but I think it was supposed to be portable, so I'll say it: The Virtual Boy. A Nintendo "handheld" that was crap.

    Back to the original topic: I was sold on the system the moment Star Fox 64 was announced. I have been wishing for a portable version of that game sense the DS came out. OoT then cemented by decision.
     
  16. granville

    Member granville GBAtemp Goat

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    I'd never consider the Virtual Boy a portable game system. If anyone was enough of a masochist to take that thing with them on a trip or something and tried to play it in the car or public place, i'd be shocked. VB is the only Nintendo system that outright sucked and had almost nothing positive about it, but it was definitely not portable any moreso than any other console is, coupled with one of those tiny LCD screens you can hook to them.
     
  17. Lunatics

    Member Lunatics GBAtemp Regular

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    I was not personally at E3, however I know some people who were and they all said that the 3d on the 3DS looked amazing. Sure they might have only had a few demos of it and what not, but they said that what was there looked good and not some cheap crappy "3d". Now, will EVERY game be as great quality as the things they showed off at E3, no probably not, they never are, however that doesn't mean that there won't be seriously good quality games coming out from serious developers while the other ones sit back and don't make the best games.

    They also said that looking at the 3DS from the side or an angle other than head on, it looked like complete shit, but looking at it head on it looked great. I for one think that the possibility for 3D games without glasses will be awesome (and I have always hated, HATED 3d and the bandwagon of everyone wanting to do 3d shit now, however this has potential to be great).

    And if worst comes to worst and the 3D does disappoint, then you turn it off, enjoy your games like regular, and have a more powerful DS than any of the others that are out.

    As for the release date I can't see it being any time before the end of this year, and I don't think anything until after Q1 of next year at least.

    I must say also that an OoT port and analog stick are reason enough to buy the 3ds.
     
  18. Midna

    Banned Midna Banned

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    One other thing. the 3D in 3DS is not being thrown in to jump on the Avatar bandwagon. It won't just be a useless gimmick. It will be able to tell you how far things are away from you in the game.
     
  19. Deathmore

    Member Deathmore GBAtemp Regular

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    Sony is fighting 2 wars here, not just the gaming handheld but the iPod handheld aswell. They claim that in the 20th century everyone had walkmans and in the 21st century everyone would have a PSP. Though that didn't go as well. Then the PSP Go came out, now now people, the digital distribution is not a fail. I know that most people would have a decent connection anything 5+ Mb is enough to download a PSP game, PSP games are often 600-800MB so if you had an 8Mb connection (I know people have higher) will allow you to download a 600MB game in 10 minutes, where I live it takes 10 minutes to get to the nearest local gamestore.

    The idea of digital distribution was not bad, it was Sony's service that screwed it up. In General the PSP Go is a real contender against the iPod, because it's small and fits in your pocket (compared to DS, 3DS and PSP1000-3000), plays music, videos, comics and games. The real problem happened is the $250 price tag (which suits the 3DS because it's a newer big improvement where as the Go is another slim iteration which is meant to be cheaper than 3000), hardly any games on the PSN store, and the fact blockbuster games won't even be on it because the AP in the game doesn't allow it to be booted of a memory card. [​IMG]

    Now then, the PSP Go had a better chance of competing against the iPod, which is slowly trying to be the device that "only does everything"

    Pretty much look at the 3DS, it's thick like all the DS's. I will carry that around but not in my pocket, if I'm going out I'd take my phone since that can play music and movies(not in 3D, but still plays movies), since it fits in my pocket perfectly. Now if I had a Go, I would be playing that on the go when im outside, since it's small and sleek.

    That was my Devil's Advocate, the 3DS is not the multimedia device, soon enough the iPod/iPhone will pretty much own the handheld device market(bear in mind not the handheld gaming market), because it's small, thin, has multiple features, and has some great games, a few RPGs have been ported from the PSP to the iPod/iPhone and are amazing.

    Will the 3DS beat DS sales, probably not, if they're pricing it in the $200s. Personally the 3DS deserves to be the most selling handheld, to me the DS selling the most units was a dissapointment to me. It'll be like Black Ops, I really want black ops to be more succesful than the crap IW hyped last year (not saying the DS is crap but you get the idea)
     
  20. Edgedancer

    Member Edgedancer Director of Moon based operations

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    I just wish to bring up a point. Due to Nintendo's unprecedented and unexpected success with both the Wii and the DS, all developers are willing to put there money on the fact that Nintendo is going to hit it out the park again.
    Think about how well the DS went initially when very few developers wished to put major resources into it. The DS still sold amazingly well and with a extremely strong amount of software in/near the launch of the console, the 3DS is looking to do the same.
     

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