Converting NDS to DSIware to CIA?

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by d0k3, May 20, 2015.

  1. d0k3
    OP

    d0k3 3DS Homebrew Legend

    Member
    2,660
    2,670
    Dec 3, 2004
    Gambia, The
    I wondered if it is somehow possible to convert Nintendo DS (.NDS) files to .CIA. If so, how do we do it? And if not, I'm interested in the technical details (how is DSIware different from the NDS retail game format?).

    I suspect it's not possible, cause, from what I see, DSIware games are rather simple when compared to retail NDS games. Also, (to my knowledge) there are no retail games also available as DSIware. Apart from DSIware I see no way (yet) to get .NDS files installed.
     
  2. valyr

    valyr GBAtemp Fan

    Member
    317
    46
    Sep 15, 2007
    United Kingdom
    dragons lair is available as a cart and as dsiware at least in europe
     
    NoNAND, Margen67 and d0k3 like this.
  3. d0k3
    OP

    d0k3 3DS Homebrew Legend

    Member
    2,660
    2,670
    Dec 3, 2004
    Gambia, The
    If these are really the same games, it might be possible to convert any NDS title. Now, if there only was some reference about both file types (DSIWare and .NDS)...
     
    Margen67 likes this.
  4. tony_2018

    tony_2018 GBAtemp Psycho!

    Member
    3,106
    1,050
    Jan 3, 2014
    United States
    Are there any cia games that were in ds form before, but are now on eshop?
     
  5. d0k3
    OP

    d0k3 3DS Homebrew Legend

    Member
    2,660
    2,670
    Dec 3, 2004
    Gambia, The
    There's a big list of DSIWare titles on Wikipedia. The only title apart from the two Dragon's Lair titles that I recognize to have also come out as retail cartridge is Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords. Somehow (correct me if I'm wrong), it seems that DSIware titles use 2D graphics rather than 3D graphics (such as NSMB or the DS Zelda titles), so maybe DSIWare can't access specific cards of the hardware. However, the Asphalt 4 title might prove me wrong. The reviews for that one even say it has better graphics than then the retail cart Asphalt title that came out for NDS.
     
  6. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08

    Member
    GBAtemp Patron
    The Real Jdbye is a Patron of GBAtemp and is helping us stay independent!

    Our Patreon
    12,509
    5,466
    Mar 17, 2010
    Norway
    Alola
    Potentially, since sudokuhax works on 3DS and it can load .nds files. But it only loads homebrew right now.
     
    MAXLEMPIRA, WhoAmI? and Margen67 like this.
  7. tony_2018

    tony_2018 GBAtemp Psycho!

    Member
    3,106
    1,050
    Jan 3, 2014
    United States
    aah, so they are called dsiware.
     
  8. blindseer

    blindseer Past Generation Gamer

    Member
    355
    183
    Jan 17, 2015
    United States
    Earth
    And the fact the dsiware is installed to the system memory instead of the sdcard which would mean you can only install a couple of games.
     
    MAXLEMPIRA and Ammako like this.
  9. 2DSGamerdude

    2DSGamerdude GBAtemp Regular

    Member
    203
    32
    Apr 6, 2015
    Greece
    Gamecube Land
    it would be so cool if we could convert .dsiware file into .cia for emunand install,
    through dsiware isn't as easy to convert and use as vc games like gbc, nes etc :(
    and the system part sucks as it installs to sys nand and viewing these files in data management deletes all data in emunand cia's and saves :(
     
  10. d0k3
    OP

    d0k3 3DS Homebrew Legend

    Member
    2,660
    2,670
    Dec 3, 2004
    Gambia, The
    Yup, that would be an option, if it worked. But it seems DSIWare titles can be converted to .CIA directly, and you only need PastaCFW to install and play these. For example, this works with the Shantae game and Zelda Four Swords Anniversary Edition as well. So, if we knew more about the DSIWare file format, we might be able to convert retail NDS games to CIA, instead of relying on Sudokuhax.


    You mean DSIWare titles have to be installed to NAND, really? Have you tested this?
     
  11. The Real Jdbye

    The Real Jdbye Always Remember 30/07/08

    Member
    GBAtemp Patron
    The Real Jdbye is a Patron of GBAtemp and is helping us stay independent!

    Our Patreon
    12,509
    5,466
    Mar 17, 2010
    Norway
    Alola
    Yeah, potentially. Saving could be a problem though, since regular DS games are designed to save on a flash chip.


    DSiWare titles do install to NAND. I don't know if they will still work if the CIA is modified to install to SD though (if that's even possible)
     
  12. Keylogger

    Keylogger GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

    Member
    1,742
    367
    May 3, 2006
    France
    I think you can choose to install CIA in NAND or SDCard with FBI
     
  13. MRJPGames

    MRJPGames Pretty great guy

    Member
    1,111
    717
    Aug 17, 2013
    Netherlands
    The Netherlands
    I know DSiWare can be injected (https://gbatemp.net/threads/tutorial-installing-sudokuhax-on-3ds.388621/) but the problem is most (if not all) NDS roms are too big to fit even 1 on the 3DS' NAND, you'd first have to find a way to install DSiWare to the SD card and make systemmenu load DSiWare from that same SD card.
     
    Margen67 likes this.
  14. d0k3
    OP

    d0k3 3DS Homebrew Legend

    Member
    2,660
    2,670
    Dec 3, 2004
    Gambia, The
    Yeah, you can choose to install .CIAs to SD with FBI, but will it also work for DSIWare CIAs?

    Maybe someone has already tested this (installing DSIWare CIA to SD via FBI)? There are some DSIWare titles converted to .CIA on a very popular 3DS roms site (won't name it, not even via PM, so don't try).

    There are save file format patches available for various flashcards. I can't possibly know, but I think it should be possible to make a patch for the save fiel location as well.
     
  15. dkabot

    dkabot Better With Others' Systems Than Their Own

    Member
    1,000
    349
    Sep 9, 2014
    United States
    FBI errors out if you try to install a DSiWare CIA without switching destination to NAND. I've done it.
     
    Margen67 and d0k3 like this.
  16. d0k3
    OP

    d0k3 3DS Homebrew Legend

    Member
    2,660
    2,670
    Dec 3, 2004
    Gambia, The
    Duh. It might have to do with that size restriction (sudokuhax doesn't work with anything above 2GB, too, but libnds might be the culprit there). Can a .CIA be modified (without completely rebuilding) to enable installations to the SD? Installing to NAND for testing purposes is just too dangerous when you don't have an EmuNAND. I wouldn't do this even with legit .CIAs.
     
    Margen67 likes this.
  17. dkabot

    dkabot Better With Others' Systems Than Their Own

    Member
    1,000
    349
    Sep 9, 2014
    United States
    Recall the DSi was like the Wii; software went onto the NAND. Even when the Wii got "SD" software, it just copied on use.
    The 3DS required DSiWare on the NAND because that's how the DSi worked. Getting it to cooperate with being on the SD card would be its own issue.
     
    Margen67 likes this.
  18. d0k3
    OP

    d0k3 3DS Homebrew Legend

    Member
    2,660
    2,670
    Dec 3, 2004
    Gambia, The
    That sounds rather plausible.... I'd have assumed that DSIWare (when bought for 3DS from the eShop) comes in some kind of wrapper that makes it think it's in the correct location.

    That brings me to... Has anyone bought a DSIWare game from the eShop? If so, did it install into your NAND or your SD? (easy to find out, as you'd just have to remove the SD and see if it is still there.
     
    Margen67 likes this.
  19. dkabot

    dkabot Better With Others' Systems Than Their Own

    Member
    1,000
    349
    Sep 9, 2014
    United States
    Reverse the question: Go into data management and check free blocks for 3DS content vs DSi content.
     
    Ammako likes this.
  20. d0k3
    OP

    d0k3 3DS Homebrew Legend

    Member
    2,660
    2,670
    Dec 3, 2004
    Gambia, The
    Alright, I got it. With the limited size of the NAND and even more grave, the requirement to fiddle around with it, the sudokuhax route suddenly sounds a lot more attractive to me. Although that still works only on O3DS v4.x and plays only homebrew.
     
    Margen67 likes this.