Capital Punishment

[fgghjjkll]

The "real truth" may never be known to the judge and so when you die, you can't really re-trial when new evidence surfaces, can you? Life sentence = yay, Death penalty = nay.

 

[ZAFDeltaForce]

I am in full support of Capital Punishment.

"You can't change a leopard's spots"

Indeed, a murderer will always be a murderer and a drug abuser will always be a drug abuser. I may be cynical about this, but there's no sure way of knowing whether one will truly turn over a new leaf. If we give them all a second chance, a large proportion of them just might go back to their old roots and be detrimental to society.

They say they use capital punishment to make society safer. I don't have any statistics to support this or otherwise, but it's perfectly logical; kill all the murderers and there will be no murderers. If there are any new murderers, catch them and kill them.

Damn, I just realised how bloodthirsty and cold hearted this post is. But hey, who cares

 

[Uncle FEFL]

If you murdered someone, I believe, you do not have the right to determine what happens to you. You may have a say in the matter whether it be a plead or other, but what happens to you in the end should be determined by the law.
You've intentionally taken the life of someone (or in many cases, multiple people) and are proven guilty. No matter what you say in attempts to keep yourself alive should even be on record.That's where we differ, sir. I don't think the right to live is disrupted by anything. To clarify: If we were to have caught Hitler, I don't think he should have been executed.

The value of human life means nothing if a person blatantly disregards this. If a person kills in anything other than self defense or war in cold blood, then the value of human life means nothing to this individual. Why give the benefit of a second chance to a person who killed another in cold blood to traffic drugs or for revenge. You must not understand that to killers the life of a human is no more than the dirt beneath your feet. People like this are scourges to humanity, and don't deserve to keep the life that has had the chance to murder innocents.I disagree. That life still means something. What, do you think that after someone kills another person they don't feel guilt? Not every murderer is a fucking sociopath.

Why does war, or self defense for that matter, support the murder of a victim? War brings only destruction, brah. Soldiers aren't perfect, they're brainwashed (like, literally brainwashed) to kill for their country.

LOL you think murderers are evil and that's the end of the story? This isn't a black and white world in a story-time book. Murderers FEEL GUILTY FOR THEIR ACTIONS. Well, most of them do. It's just like suicide; people are happy to live. If a person chose to not kill and had the chance to, they'd feel better about themselves in the end.

LOL the "scourge" of humanity? All of humanity is the scourge of humanity! Since the fucking dawn of time there were slaves, murders, hell-bent assholes driven to profits, sacrifices, genocides, you name it! What makes you any better than another human being?

QUOTE(ZAFDeltaForce @ Sep 10 2010, 05:39 AM)

I am in full support of Capital Punishment.

"You can't change a leopard's spots"

Indeed, a murderer will always be a murderer and a drug abuser will always be a drug abuser. I may be cynical about this, but there's no sure way of knowing whether one will truly turn over a new leaf. If we give them all a second chance, a large proportion of them just might go back to their old roots and be detrimental to society.

They say they use capital punishment to make society safer. I don't have any statistics to support this or otherwise, but it's perfectly logical; kill all the murderers and there will be no murderers. If there are any new murderers, catch them and kill them.

Damn, I just realised how bloodthirsty and cold hearted this post is. But hey, who cares

Using a cliche is a poor way to argue. Not to mention people change all the time. I disagree with the fact that you people think that murderers were born evil and will always kill. That person wasn't born a murderer, correct? So how could they always be one, without changing themselves?

Do you...have any idea how ridiculous you sound? "I'm basically pulling this out of my ass but: capital punishment makes society safer. If a person kills, kill him. It makes perfect sense." Where do the murderers of murderers fit in? Oh, they don't because they're "police officers"? That's retarded.

 

[ZPE]

I'm against it for 2 reasons.
It's sick, there seriously are innocent people who die.

And 2, for real criminals, like, child rapers/murderes, I think it's too soft. They get away with it too easy, I'd rather have them tortured every week.

Contradictory statements here. How do you know who are really innocent? Should the innocent get tortured as well? It's happening around the whole as we speak regardless. :/

 

[Raiser]

If you murdered someone, I believe, you do not have the right to determine what happens to you. You may have a say in the matter whether it be a plead or other, but what happens to you in the end should be determined by the law.
You've intentionally taken the life of someone (or in many cases, multiple people) and are proven guilty. No matter what you say in attempts to keep yourself alive should even be on record.

That's where we differ, sir. I don't think the right to live is disrupted by anything. To clarify: If we were to have caught Hitler, I don't think he should have been executed.

Aye, I suppose this is where we see our differences.
I think he should have been. Intentionally slaughtering millions of Jews on false pretenses (and him knowing it as well) is no different than nuking a city.

I may not have a German / Nazi point of view on any deep reasons why Hitler went on such a rampage, but I do know that what he did do during the war was take millions of lives and throw them aside.
In my eyes, there would be no other way out for this man except capital punishment.

 

[The Viztard]

We kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong. Ironic huh?

Yea, right. I would think that a life sentence in some sort of solitary confinement would be worse than any other sort of punishment. Just for someone to think that they would be spending the rest of their life in some cell would be hell on earth. And maybe if you added some occasional "torture" it would definitely teach them. But no one has the right to end some other persons life. You are not a higher entity.

 

[Pliskron]

Someone hurts child or murders kill em. Plant big axe in their skull just like in Castlevania. Seems like the video games are the only place dirt~bags get justice.

 

[Sterling]

We kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong. Ironic huh?

Yea, right. I would think that a life sentence in some sort of solitary confinement would be worse than any other sort of punishment. Just for someone to think that they would be spending the rest of their life in some cell would be hell on earth. And maybe if you added some occasional "torture" it would definitely teach them. But no one has the right to end some other persons life. You are not a higher entity.
According to the Constitution's 5th amendment:

QUOTENo person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

With due procees of law, you may be deprived of life, it's as simple as that.

Prison in the US is actually comfy living, and at most uncomfortable because of the people around you. Even in solitary the whole place is cushy. xD I would be all for torture, but that just makes people crazy and when the sentance is carried out, they kill themselves and/or other people. So if you tortue someone, you can just indirectly influence another murder.

If there is no God, and no place to rot if you are unable to ascend, then we can know atleast while we are here that particular person will no longer be apart of humanity.

@ Inori: When a person who has nothing to do with the person who murdered someone, then it is not revenge. The only case where this is true is when the person doing the execution has some sort of connection with the victim. Then it could be called revenge.

The way I see it, if the executioner has nightmares and would wish to stop their job, then they would. However most do not. They feel it is their Civil duty, and take comfort in knowing there is one less potential killer that could be on the streets.

@ Uncle FEFL: I feel totally different from you. In my mind if someone murders knowingly for gain or personal vendetta, then even if they feel regret, they cannot bring the person back to life. There is no way to provide recompence for a loss of life... Period. Life in jail here in the US is cushy and at worst uncomfotable. They survive in relative comfort, and ease of life. Why should this be so?

Not all killers are pshycopaths, but everyone who is a psychopath tend to have a certain mindset that is open to killing. Seriously, I don't get why guys like don't get this. Human life means nothing to these people, and once the deed is done even if they are filled with regret there is no way to take it back. If you kill for personal gain, because you just snap, because you want revenge, you not only deserve to die you also deserve to burn in hell. I don't care if your my best friend, you murder someone I am through with you. I have to admit, accidents do happen especially with teens who do stupid shit to impress friends. People who have accidents under the influence, are responsible but these people are usually the ones who live with true guilt. Knowing they make a bad descision which cost someone their life. They deserve to live with the guilt, however the people that kill for above said reasons have no guilt, can be greedy, etc don't deserve a second chance. These people are not, and should not be a part of society. War is hell, and sure there are trigger happy teens who played Modern Warfare avidly and decided to join because of it. There are also the people that join because of a sense of duty, and some also hate fighting. While I don't agree with the death of innocent's in war, shit just happens, and it's a simple as that.

All this assumes the person is guilty. I know that innocents do get killed on death row, and that is apalling. I understand that, but the Death Penalty is a necessity according to me, and you and others like you have a mind set that cannot and will not be changed. This is fact, and we may debate on it as much as we like, but we will never come to an agreement. This just like Religion, Politics, and other such topics that should never be mentioned in conversations.

 

[0ddity]

...but the Death Penalty is a necessity according to me...

Why? It's not a deterrent to future crimes, it's more expensive then LIP, and we kill innocent people. I guess if you were on death row, convicted of a crime you didn't commit, you'd say "it's OK, even though I didn't commit the crime, go ahead and kill me, because the death penalty is worth the life of some innocents." I don't think that way, I think any innocent's life is worth more than the revenge factor that is capital punishment (because thats all it really is about, societal revenge.) Also, why don't you quote that part of the constitution about "cruel and unusual punishment," I would call being executed for a crime you didn't commit, "unusual punishment" and a fundamental violation of one's constitutional rights.

 

[MelodieOctavia]

I DO NOT approve of capital punishment in it's current state. However, I do think that the death penalty should be put in place for serial or repeat murderers.

If it has been proven within reasonable doubt that you will continue to take lives, then it is only reasonable to extinguish your life to prevent the meaningless deaths of others.

 

[0ddity]

If it has been proven within reasonable doubt that you will continue to take lives, then it is only reasonable to extinguish your life to prevent the meaningless deaths of others.

Wouldn't life in prison do the same thing, at a cheaper price for the taxpayers?

 

[MelodieOctavia]

If it has been proven within reasonable doubt that you will continue to take lives, then it is only reasonable to extinguish your life to prevent the meaningless deaths of others.

Wouldn't life in prison do the same thing, at a cheaper price for the taxpayers?

No. The murderer in question would still have the opportunity to kill in the prison system. And, please, don't tell me that's what Solitary is for. People have an can be killed, even by someone in Solitary confinement.

 

[Sterling]

...but the Death Penalty is a necessity according to me...

Why? It's not a deterrent to future crimes, it's more expensive then LIP, and we kill innocent people. I guess if you were on death row, convicted of a crime you didn't commit, you'd say "it's OK, even though I didn't commit the crime, go ahead and kill me, because the death penalty is worth the life of some innocents." I don't think that way, I think any innocent's life is worth more than the revenge factor that is capital punishment (because thats all it really is about, societal revenge.) Also, why don't you quote that part of the constitution about "cruel and unusual punishment," I would call being executed for a crime you didn't commit, "unusual punishment" and a fundamental violation of one's constitutional rights.

First of all, I want to clear up the misconception that I think that the mistaken cases of capital punishments upon innocents is "okay". Because it is absolutely unacceptable. I must quote myself here

QUOTE

There are also the people that join because of a sense of duty, and some also hate fighting. While I don't agree with the death of innocent's in war, shit just happens, and it's a simple as that.

This was a response to Uncle FEFL's rebuttal one of my comments. I think that war is never perfect. Innocents die, sometimes by the hand of the military. Because it is hell, and hell isn't a pleasant place to be. If you don't accept this fact, and realize that shit happens then you will never fully appreciate what you have here. My dad's friend's cousin was killed by where I go to school. He was driving and a person threw a rock at his windshield and broke it. He stopped and got out of the car. Where he was jumped by a at least five people of a specific ethnic group. They held him down and told another that this was his chance to get in, and they told him to shoot him in the head. A perfectly innocent person is dead, and people like those are still on the street. (God Damnit I can't hardly see my screen!) People such as these do not deserve to live, the shouldn't get a second chance. It's wrong for people like this to live in relative comfort and be able to get out on good behavior. It sickens me.

To the comment that the Death Penalty is cruel and unusual. The stuff these people do to these victims is sick. You wanna see cruel and unusual, stick a pillar of wood in their anus and let them be impaled by gravity. This would put the executioners on the same level as these shit heads, and is intolerable. If they stopped the lethal injection and followed my suggestion, then they wouldn't feel a single thing, and would cut cost by at least %75. Build a platform, and use rope. Simple as applying force to knock out, and strangle.

 

[0ddity]

You didn't quite follow me, I said the death penalty is cruel and unusual and violates the constitutional rights of innocent people. Your first paragraph is really irrelevant to the argument. My argument is that until convictions are 100% accurate (will they ever be?) we cannot continue to execute innocent people. You seem to think I give a shit about murderers who are executed, but I don't. My argument against capital punishment is entirely based on the fact that innocent people are executed, and we just can't do that, deprive someone of their liberty, assume they're a monster, stack the courts against them and remove all their hope, and then take their life. Innocent people. To me, this is a far greater crime then letting murderers spend the rest of their life in prison instead of being executed.

 

[Sterling]

You didn't quite follow me, I said the death penalty is cruel and unusual and violates the constitutional rights of innocent people. Your first paragraph is really irrelevant to the argument. My argument is that until convictions are 100% accurate (will they ever be?) we cannot continue to execute innocent people. You seem to think I give a shit about murderers who are executed, but I don't. My argument against capital punishment is entirely based on the fact that innocent people are executed, and we just can't do that, deprive someone of their liberty, assume they're a monster, stack the courts against them and remove all their hope, and then take their life. Innocent people. To me, this is a far greater crime then letting murderers spend the rest of their life in prison instead of being executed.

I guess I did misunderstand. I thought you were referring to my quote. Sorry about that. The argument here is there are innocents that get executed. Though through current advances in technology and forensics more and more cases are being proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused are guilty. Not saying that these cases are 100% accurate, but they are slowly becoming that way. The situations people find themselves in probably could have been adverted by some simple common sense. Set ups are a way for revenge, and if the innocent party is executed, only to be found innocent after the fact, then an investigation should be opened on the case again. It's not justice if the shoe isn't on the right foot. Which is why there are so many appeals to get people off death row. People get a lot more chances to get off, and if the line is really that thin to not see innocence after [say] 5 appeals then I would think that maybe they are guilty. Sometimes prejudice gets in the way too, that's bad also. Honestly I do wish our law system was better, big room for improvement there.

 

[Uncle FEFL]

@ Uncle FEFL: I feel totally different from you. In my mind if someone murders knowingly for gain or personal vendetta, then even if they feel regret, they cannot bring the person back to life. There is no way to provide recompence for a loss of life... Period. Life in jail here in the US is cushy and at worst uncomfotable. They survive in relative comfort, and ease of life. Why should this be so?Haha, if you think our system is comfortable, take a look at countries in Europe.

Our system is not comfortable. Have you ever been to jail? Prison? It's definitely not a place in which to live.

Not all killers are pshycopaths, but everyone who is a psychopath tend to have a certain mindset that is open to killing. Seriously, I don't get why guys like don't get this. Human life means nothing to these people, and once the deed is done even if they are filled with regret there is no way to take it back. If you kill for personal gain, because you just snap, because you want revenge, you not only deserve to die you also deserve to burn in hell. I don't care if your my best friend, you murder someone I am through with you. I have to admit, accidents do happen especially with teens who do stupid shit to impress friends. People who have accidents under the influence, are responsible but these people are usually the ones who live with true guilt. Knowing they make a bad descision which cost someone their life. They deserve to live with the guilt, however the people that kill for above said reasons have no guilt, can be greedy, etc don't deserve a second chance. These people are not, and should not be a part of society. War is hell, and sure there are trigger happy teens who played Modern Warfare avidly and decided to join because of it. There are also the people that join because of a sense of duty, and some also hate fighting. While I don't agree with the death of innocent's in war, shit just happens, and it's a simple as that.These ignorant, childish remarks are annoying me.

You didn't even answer my question: what makes you better than anyone else? Are you better than mentally challenged people? Murderers? Whites, blacks? Anyone?

Yeah brah, because we all know what goes on inside other peoples' heads. That's why all of our medicine works one-hundred percent and we can also read minds and stuff. Duuuuude.

Let me point you in the direction you sound like right now: "theives (online or IRL) should just die. Even if said person only stole a couple of numbers in a specific order" (post from another forum I frequent commenting on Ugetab's tragic death). Do you agree with this? If so, you're fucking batshit insane. If not, then the opinion you hold right now sounds a lot like this one, except it's a different crime (albeit more serious as well).

"Shit happens," huh? You're an ass. The death of a person, of any social caliber, is a tragic death in my opinion. It's also funny how you take the attitude of "shit happens" during war, but when war is not going on, it's a crime deserving death. War is not a special permission to kill innocent people, in fact (well, not really a "fact"), I don't think it should be a permit to kill people at all (but that's a whole other discussion).



QUOTE

All this assumes the person is guilty. I know that innocents do get killed on death row, and that is apalling. I understand that, but the Death Penalty is a necessity according to me, and you and others like you have a mind set that cannot and will not be changed. This is fact, and we may debate on it as much as we like, but we will never come to an agreement. This just like Religion, Politics, and other such topics that should never be mentioned in conversations.

Contrarily, I use to think like you. An ignorant bigot floating around in his stream of narrow-mindedness. It's not a fact, it's de facto. Society will always choose the easiest route and join the bandwagon. It's up to you the person to decide when you wanna get off the wagon.

You can't change an opinion that takes no thought. You can't change a person that doesn't listen.

 

[Magmorph]

When you take revenge, you then lower yourself to the perp's level and makes you just as bad. The people that carry out the grisly deed of taking another's life in the process of the death penalty don't do it because they like to, they do it because they believe it to be right, and the only comfort they have is that there is one less person roaming the streets for the next victim.

I would say you almost fit the definition of the people you are wanting to kill. You are advocating the death of a human for revenge. You can come up with as many arguments as you want about how murderers don't deserve to live but in the end killing them is unnecessary. Murders are not the reason the prison system is too full. You are also over generalizing murders. Not every murderer is a sadistic sociopath that has no regard for human life. There are many murderers who believe what they are doing is right, which by your logic justifies the action.

 

[0ddity]

I guess I did misunderstand. I thought you were referring to my quote. Sorry about that. The argument here is there are innocents that get executed. Though through current advances in technology and forensics more and more cases are being proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused are guilty.
I don't think there's any evidence to support that idea. Not all cases rely on DNA, and even ones that do, there is huge room for human error. Labs make mistakes, and police labs are biased in favor of police, which can lead to intentional or unintentional false positives.

Not saying that these cases are 100% accurate, but they are slowly becoming that way.
I don't think so. Even in cases where someone was convicted on the basis of DNA or other forensic evidence, later retesting sometimes shows those findings were wrong or the facts overstated.

QUOTE

The situations people find themselves in probably could have been adverted by some simple common sense. Set ups are a way for revenge, and if the innocent party is executed, only to be found innocent after the fact, then an investigation should be opened on the case again.

Blaming the victim of a false conviction for that conviction, really? In some cases, their lack of common sense equates to being a certain skin color, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And as for intentional set-ups, I would think that accounts for a very low percentage of wrongful convictions. Most can be attributed to eyewitness misidentification, faulty forensics and inadequate defense representation.

 

[TrolleyDave]

I'm all for capital punishment in certain circumstances. The only problems with it are the ones previously mentioned. It's far too easy to stitch someone up, innocent parties being sentenced etc. It's also too easy to use on government dissidents. Man is too easily corruptable and vengeful to be responsible enough for capital punishment. If it wasn't the case I would fully support cit for various things. And in some politicians cases I'd volunteer to be the executioner.

 

[Sterling]

Our system is not comfortable. Have you ever been to jell? Prison? It's definitely not a place in which to live.

First of all it's spelled 'Jail', and no I have not. My friend has, and he learned to sleep with his eyes open. I said at most it's uncomfortable because of the others there with you. Generally if you are there in the first place, you have already learned something about being protective of yourself.
*snip

These ignorant, childish remarks are annoying me.

You didn't even answer my question: what makes you better than anyone else? Are you better than mentally challenged people? Murderers? Whites, blacks? Anyone?

Yeah brah, because we all know what goes on inside other peoples' heads, that why all of our medicine works one-hundred percent and we can also read minds and stuff. Duuuuude.

Have you even fully read all my comments? I have a mental disorder, of course I am mentally challenged (to a certain degree). It doesn't make me any better, in fact sometimes I am almost sub human. Reduced to an animal like state. Have you ever been so enraged that when you next wake up, you have no idea where you are, and what you did. It's fucking scary. I don't know where you get off by saying anyone's comments are childish. I type properly, have sentence structure, and fully complete thoughts. If anything I am far from childish.

Let me point you in the direction you sound like right now: "theives (online or IRL) should just die. Even if said person only stole a couple of numbers in a specific order" (post from another forum I frequent commenting on Ugetab's tragic death). Do you agree with this? If so, you're fucking batshit insane. If not, then the opinion you hold right now sounds a lot like this one, except it's a different crime (albeit more serious as well).

Dude, try to come up with a proper analogy that can even come close to the seriousness of the subject at hand. If I agreed with you on this, then anyone who has an internet connection must die. Everyone has pirated, plagiarized, etc. at one point or another. In fact I could say you're "batshit insane" for even suggesting such a sick suggestion.

"Shit happens," huh? You're an ass. The death of a person, of any social caliber, is a tragic death in my opinion. It's also funny how you take the attitude of "shit happens" during war, but when war is not going on, it's a crime deserving death. War is not a special permission to kill innocent people, in fact (well, not really a "fact"), I don't think it should be a permit to kill people at all (but that's a whole other discussion).

No, you're wrong. War is hell, I will stick to that. It matters not what social class you are, any innocent life taken is tragic. You miss the entire point. When a military is going out with the mission of protecting your rights, you should be thankful. Shit happens, and I will repeat this as much as the situation necessitates. Get it through your head that when a war is going on things happen, sometimes you cannot control the outcome. This is especially true when the enemy combatants blend in so well with the populace, they may disappear at any given moment. Sure if an innocent is aimed at purposely and killed, then this necessitates death. But when bullets are flying all over the place, and people are being taken hostage shit happens. It's a fact that you cannot deny. If you think that that is debatable and not true, then you are a fool.

Contrarily, I use to think like you. An ignorant bigot floating around in his stream of narrow-mindedness. It's not a fact, it's de facto. Society will always choose the easiest route and join the bandwagon. It's up to you the person to decide when you wanna get off the wagon.

Don't throw the word "bigot" around so lightly. This should be a respectable debate, and calling me narrow minded just because I whole heartedly disagree with you is DISRESPECTFUL. I have not once said anything about how the points you have made are narrow minded, or anything pertaining to your mindset. Because everything you have said has a place in this topic. Except for most of this post, which is just a giant flame in disguise.

You can't change an opinion that takes no thought. You can't change a person that doesn't listen.

See above.

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