Best VPN?

godreborn

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
20,827
Trophies
1
XP
12,868
Country
United States
I'm thinking about going with a vpn, but I know nothing about them. what is the best vpn to use for all devices (computers, game systems, phones, etc.)?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deleted User
D

Deleted User

Guest
Mullvad is the best (or among them, I personally use it for a reason) as far as anonymity goes. Not sure why you would use a VPN for gaming, as Linuxares mentioned latency issues, but if you just needed to change/mask your IP, you could always just use a proxy i'd imagine.

My Sauce(Source): https://www.privacytools.io/providers/vpn/
 
  • Like
Reactions: godreborn

godreborn

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
20,827
Trophies
1
XP
12,868
Country
United States
thanks, guys. I'll try setting up mullvad whenever I have some more free time. what's this about a tor browser? I'm mostly wanting to have security when downloading especially after nintendo going on a rampage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deleted User
D

Deleted User

Guest
thanks, guys. I'll try setting up mullvad whenever I have some more free time. what's this about a tor browser? I'm mostly wanting to have security when downloading especially after nintendo going on a rampage.

Tor Browser, I think that may be overkill for your particular threat model (Although it truthfully does not get anymore secure than that, it's just painfully slow making it harder to use unless you're strictly doing dark web browsing/research/Investigative Journalism, etc), in that case a VPN is a perfect compromise between performance (Download Speeds in your case) & Hiding your home IP from prying eyes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: godreborn

godreborn

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
20,827
Trophies
1
XP
12,868
Country
United States
I'm also wondering if I should go back to usenet. a lot of those sites are gone due to dmca takedowns, so I don't know if there's any good sites left. I never got a letter from my isp for that even when I was in college.
 

linuxares

I'm not a generous god!
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
9,040
Trophies
1
XP
10,391
Country
Sweden
I use Usenet and it's perfectly fine and dandy. But it all depends on what you're after. The sites today "encrypt" (scrambles letters and numbers) uploads so it's harder for an outsider to see what it really is about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: godreborn

godreborn

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
20,827
Trophies
1
XP
12,868
Country
United States
I was using usenet for several years, but that's when I was a part of nzb matrix, which died due to dmca takedowns. that was the best place to find things. is it still just as easy to find things now? another site, (won't mention it here since I think it's still active), had to go into hiding.
 
D

Deleted User

Guest
I use Usenet and it's perfectly fine and dandy. But it all depends on what you're after. The sites today "encrypt" (scrambles letters and numbers) uploads so it's harder for an outsider to see what it really is about.
I tried Usenet a few months ago and found it alright, nothing impressive. It tends to have the same content that a torrent website would have.

What I expected was to see exclusive/rare media not found anywhere else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: godreborn

godreborn

Well-Known Member
OP
Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Messages
20,827
Trophies
1
XP
12,868
Country
United States
the reason I liked them is that they were screening bad/bogus files from their website (Nzb matrix). there's the bay site for torrents, but isn't a lot of that stuff garbage and/or viruses?
 
D

Deleted User

Guest
the reason I liked them is that they were screening bad/bogus files from their website (Nzb matrix). there's the bay site for torrents, but isn't a lot of that stuff garbage and/or viruses?
I usually browse the "Leet" website and the "Bay" and both are fine. Just don't download dubious application files or the sort, or fake movie rips with HD quality even before they're out.
 

notimp

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
5,786
Trophies
1
XP
4,372
Country
Laos
Someone needs to demystify VPNs...

VPN services nowadays mostly are a revenue share model for piracy.

Piracy websites tell you to get one. Then also offer you up VPN ads, and get revenue, when you buy a subscription.

If you know you need a VPN, pay for one. If you aren't sure, you probably dont need one.

The idea behind a VPN is, that your internet service provider, and the website owner you surf to, dont get your real IP address.

For the most part the first part can be had for free by changing your DNS provider (google cloudflare DNS for one that is marketing spending to the nines atm, dont know why, or google google DNS to to know how to set up googles DNS servers).

For the most part the second part isn't needed. If you are a piracy service provider. You don't keep customer logs. For more than an operating period for usually not more than 24h.

So - when you are not torrenting (if you use torrent for piracy reasons, using a VPN is/can be justified), the scenario goes as follows. Lets pick Nintendo as the rightsholder in the current example.

Nintendo sees piracy links. Argues that the whole website that serves links, or the downloadprovider (think mega) are piracy, get them offline through litigation, get their hands on those guys server logs (which none of them should keep), and find you in them for downloading a thing once (because 24 hours). Now repeat with every possible piracy source individually.

The idea that this is dangerous beyond 'dont go outside when it rains, you could be hit by lightning levels' is so silly, it get a migrane.
-

Moreover in Europe until a few years ago, downloading - whatever - was basically a misdemeanor, if illegal - that didn't warrent your ISP to give our personal information. Only uploading (sharing, engaging in the act of illegally distributing) was. That changed. Now the law of the land in the EU is 'if the person, as an everyman, could justifiably know, that this was pirated content'.

So downloading and streaming has become more problematic in terms of actual law, but not in practice.

Since what I described above - basically doesn't scale. No one piracy site ever gets so big, and so stupid (keeping logs), that suing its customers would be a viable effort - even for deterrence reasons.

Until that happens for the first time - dont ever think, that you need a VPN for downloading stuff. You don't
-

If you still live in a region where something like the 'three strikes' rule is in practice, you have my sympathies - but for those to get enacted our rightsholder (f.e. Nintendo) has to get hold of your IP in connection with a possible crime - and if you dont broadcast 'I'm stealing, I'm stealing, I'm stealing' to the entire world, using torrent (Nintendo could hire lawyers that collect torrents, access them, and collect IPs, from you boradcasting - hey I want to share), EVERYONE in the entire chain, your ISP, your Piracy site owner, and your Filehost - have an active interest in keeping you as a customer - over giving Nintendo what they want, and that includes protecting you privacy, in connection to what you are doing on their shady side. (Basically - piracy providers should delete logs.)

The scenario, where a rightsholder asks facebook to triangulate your web activities and then filters out bossible rights violations - also isnt happening.

So in short - you dont need to care about protecting your privacy in most scenarios here.
-

Read torrentfreak for a while to get an idea how many piracy users get sued these days, and for what.

Also - in addition. Courts, more often than not, will through out piracy cases if you were - 'just a user', because sifting through all of them isn't economical and would bring down the entire legal system (by shere amount). ALL cases, that were ever filed, on the torrent front, against 'mom and pa' type endusers, where litigated for deterrence purposes. So that you get imprinted in your head, that people get punished for it.

My condolences to those who got caught.

Then there is also the strange interaction, that people who pirate more get into the base culture more, and also usually buy more the legit way (which sucks for smaller studios or publishers, because they usually are the ones most hurt) - which study after study has shown - and you a end up with a world, where even Amazon, that sees what books you read on their devices, and protocols if you have bought them from them or not - doesnt engage in trying to litigate end users.

The entire game nowadays revolves around increasing opportunity cost - so making it harder for you to pirate in the first place. Or making it less easy for you. If you already got around that - congratulations?!?

But still - a VPN is probabably still not a thing you need.
-

What VPN is 'best'.

PIA was liked by many people for a long time, then it got liked so much, that effing McAffee (the company, not the person) bought it.

They still have an interest in protecting their irrational piracy users, because thats pretty much all of their business.

So now people have a new favourite, and than that game repeates?

I personally pay for PIA (subscription hasnt run out) - but I dont care the least about using it for streaming or downloading 'grey stuff'.

But then I never pay for piracy.

If you give your credit card info to a piracy vendor... The rightsholder gets your identity much easier. And can prove much easier that you consumed piracy.

But even then, with the filehosting model, filehoster says 'im just a space provider' - and youd have to go through the insane efforts to take one such provider (think mega) down - and in the end, all payed users, in all of those efforts in the past also have walked free. Because as such a provider you dont keep logs that connect your customers to piracy. You loose them.


If your ISP, your piracy side provider, your filehost, your friendly ad network (think facebook) and the legal system have an interest in doing everything NOT to litigate you. And no such case has ever (?) become public (litigation for only downloading, and not uploading a thing). You're probably fine?

Case in point, you are much more likely just too stupid not to fall for insurance fraud - because you know that you do something illegal, and would want to ensure against it. Now - there is an ad based business model there, that sells people subscriptions.
 
Last edited by notimp,
  • Like
Reactions: DCG

linuxares

I'm not a generous god!
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
9,040
Trophies
1
XP
10,391
Country
Sweden
For the most part the first part can be had for free by changing your DNS provider (google cloudflare DNS for one that is marketing spending to the nines atm, dont know why, or google google DNS to to know how to set up googles DNS servers).
That's not how a DNS works... they can still see where you going, your IP doesn't change because you change a DNS provider.

Until that happens for the first time - dont ever think, that you need a VPN for downloading stuff. You don't
Plenty of people have gotten sued for downloading via both Bittorrent, Direct Connect etc.

PIA was liked by many people for a long time, then it got liked so much, that effing McAffee (the company, not the person) bought it.
It was Tunnelbear, not PIA. https://www.tunnelbear.com/blog/tunnelbear_joins_mcafee/
 

notimp

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
5,786
Trophies
1
XP
4,372
Country
Laos
That's not how a DNS works... they can still see where you going, your IP doesn't change because you change a DNS provider.
Depends on how the DNS and how the ISP works.

F.e. if the ISP does deep packet inspection. Or if the ISP does reverse DNS lookup, and keeps logs just for that purpose.

The point here is:

The ISP has no interest in advertising to our rights holder (Nintendo), that you're pirating.

And if the ISP ever sells his (usually DNS based) access data, he will always do so (pseudo) anonymized.

So how the heck - is our rights holder getting your IP in relation to you pirating.

Every piratcy side thats telling you to use a VPN to be more save - is basically lying to you.

If you think differently - please make your case. (In depth, not just with 'you wrong, because I believe different').
 
Last edited by notimp,

notimp

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
5,786
Trophies
1
XP
4,372
Country
Laos
@notimp do you have any idea what a VPN does or how a DNS works? Because I really need to know before I throw out a textbook on how they work.
Yes. ISP sees IP.

Please make your case on how your IP ends up at our rights holder - and dont just 'I have the bigger one' on basic tech knowledge.

Come on. Prep up - tell everyone in here how they are at any risk streaming or downloading pirated content.

Without uploading (much higher degree of penalty and therefore risk of litigation), and without broadcasting what they do.


Your IP usually is dynamic. For a rightsholder to have any chance to get your personally identifiable information, they need 'reasonable suspicion'. Meaning, they need your IP, in relation to downloading something illegal (low degree of penalty (think 'stealing an apple'), which is why courts have an incetive to throw it out), for them to get a judge to wave your privacy rights, so the ISP can be made to hand over your personally identifyable information.

How do they get that?
 
Last edited by notimp,

linuxares

I'm not a generous god!
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
9,040
Trophies
1
XP
10,391
Country
Sweden
Yes. ISP sees IP.

Please make your case on how your IP ends up at our rights holder - and dont just 'I have the bigger one' on basic tech knowledge.

Come on. Prep up - tell everyone in here how they are at any risk streaming or downloading pirated content.
Sure, let me explain.

The DNS. The DNS translate www.google.com to numbers that are called IP. And the reverse around. That's all a DNS do in the most basic terms.
If you download for example a movie via Bittorrent. Your Bittorrent client connects to different other peers that have the same file. The tracker keeps track of whom have the file that matches the hash at this very moment that are connected. Then they're connected via IP and not hostnames to each other.

A VPN masques the IP fully, a lot of VPN providers don't keep a log of the original IP, so even if the evil Anti Piracy Corp comes and ask for logs, they will only see the VPN providers IP but not whom had that IP during the time, since it was masked.

So I got to say, today you're at bigger risk than you where before since it's so much easier to keep track on all of this and the anti-piracy groups are spread out on different IPs today than they were in the past.

ISP can see IP and where IP is going and receiving information from. Even said ports. If you use a VPN they can see you connected to a IP, your VPN provider, where a lot of data is going through. But they can't see the data since the tunnel is encrypted.
 

notimp

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
5,786
Trophies
1
XP
4,372
Country
Laos
linuxares you are a moron.

If you use torrent. Use a VPN. I have never stated anything else.

Also I do know how DNS works on the base level, but thanks.

My point is, that you and every piracy site out there - that has nothing to do with torrenting - feeds people the idea of an insurance policy, that they dont need.
-

More to the point, even when torrenting - for the rightsholder to throw litigation at you ONLY makes sense if they want to use you to SIGNAL, that people get caught. So to use your case as a deterrence for others. Everything else doesnt make sense economically (do one such thing, impact the behavior of millions of people). So even in that case - in todays ecosystem, you must be extremely unlucky to get dragged in front of a court.

BUT. Because of the shere number of different legal systems out there and the much higher punishment threshold in illegally distributing piracy goods, I'll not get caught recommending against a VPN - when you torrent.


My posting was about arguably not needing a VPN, for streaming or downloading 'stuff' - and how every second piracy board (based on sharehosters) and every second streaming blog - still advertises VPNs to their users on grounds of 'close to nothing - but it sells'.
 
Last edited by notimp,
  • Like
Reactions: spelda

linuxares

I'm not a generous god!
Global Moderator
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
9,040
Trophies
1
XP
10,391
Country
Sweden
linuxares you are a moron.

If you use torrent. Use a VPN. I have never stated anything else.

Also I do know how DNS works on the base level, but thanks.

My point is, that you and every piracy site out there - that has nothing to do with torrenting - feeds people the idea of an insurance policy, that they dont need.
Do you trust Google etc. not to have your IP if you download from a Gdrive? Just sayin'
 
General chit-chat
Help Users
    Julie_Pilgrim @ Julie_Pilgrim: ok not that low spec