1. linuxares

    linuxares I'm not a generous god!
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    7,158
    Country:
    Sweden
    Yes! Edizon 4.0 and sys-ftpd at the sametime would be a dream! <3
     
    hippy dave likes this.
  2. ZachyCatGames

    ZachyCatGames GBAtemp Addict
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Messages:
    2,400
    Country:
    United States
    I’m fairly sure I’ve said this before, but atmosphere does, in fact, reimplement like 80% of firmware package (and that’ll be brought up to 90% in the near future), I wouldn’t say it’s in inaccurate name.
     
    tiliarou likes this.
  3. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,699
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    As I've explained before, the difference between software and firmware is to do with how it's stored and booted & not what it does. Atmosphere is software.

    When you can install it to sysnand and cold boot it by signing it or bypassing the signing (and not using a tethered exploit like fusee gelee), then it would be firmware.

    Even the TX mod chip won't count as CFW.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
  4. ZachyCatGames

    ZachyCatGames GBAtemp Addict
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Messages:
    2,400
    Country:
    United States
    Nintendo literally officially calls package1/package2 firm in some instances, and Atmosphere replaces all of package1, as well as everything except FS and the kernel in package2. If it replaces/reimplements firm, it is a custom firmware, doesn’t matter how it’s loaded.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
  5. SciresM

    SciresM Developer
    Developer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    821
    Country:
    United States
    This isn't even good gatekeeping.

    There's no correct formal definition for firmware - the strictly technical one requires ROM, which precludes anything updatable. Since the common meaning of firmware is not "read only software", updatable storage is not precluded. If we accept updatable storage, there's no reason to preclude the SD card.

    Further, I would contend that Nintendo's boot packages are all firmware, despite the fact that three of four are not installed or run at any given time. Similarly, I would consider system data archives part of the firmware - they are not booted at all, and can (with system save data editing and some LR calls) be placed on the SD card.

    Wikipedia puts it best, imo: "Over time, popular usage extended the word "firmware" to denote any computer program that is tightly linked to hardware".

    Firmware is software that is tightly coupled to hardware. Gatekeeping the word doesn't help anyone, especially when the way you're gatekeeping it isn't even formally correct.
     
    hippy dave, tiliarou, zxr750j and 7 others like this.
  6. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,699
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I accept it's a little grey, but you pretending it's CFW because you are desperate for props for creating CFW as it's the hot ticket in any scene isn't helping anyone either. By your definition Windows and Linux would be firmware. Your argument is rather disingenuous. Nothing about running atmosphere using fusee gellee can be accurately described as firmware. Just because whoever wrote the wikipedia article didn't define the meaning of firmware very well, doesn't mean that you can pretend there is no meaning.

    Where does it stop? You pretend words like cold boot and permanent mean something different next? That's much easier than actually getting a permanent coldboot. CFW means permanent coldboot exploit in every other scene. Words not meaning what

    Nintendo themselves call it System Software, not firmware. So saying applying run time patches to the system software somehow becomes CFW is an even bigger stretch.

    Firmware very much matters how and when it's loaded, that is the only real difference between firmware and software.

    When you can install custom package1 and package2 and it boots without any other hardware then you can honestly call it CFW
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  7. ghjfdtg

    ghjfdtg GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    535
    Country:
    Linux is not firmware. It's a kernel designed to run on many different devices and Windows is an OS. The only part of Linux you probably can count as firmware is the device tree because it's highly customized for a device. Horizon OS is highly customized for the Switch hardware and would need much more modifications to run on different devices than Linux would.
     
  8. SciresM

    SciresM Developer
    Developer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    821
    Country:
    United States
    Happy June 15th, redux.
     
    hippy dave, peteruk, PHiLiPZ and 3 others like this.
  9. tiliarou

    tiliarou GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    160
    Country:
    France
    PHiLiPZ likes this.
  10. Akira

    Akira I'm not a SHRIMP!!!!
    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,191
    Country:
    United States
    Sucks to be all knowing. Getting triggered by just a few words(abbreviation even). Happy June 15th
     
    PHiLiPZ likes this.
  11. oleole

    oleole Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2006
    Messages:
    40
    Country:
  12. PHiLiPZ

    PHiLiPZ GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Messages:
    152
    Country:
    Slovakia
    It’s three posts above yours already.
     
  13. _hexkyz_

    _hexkyz_ Advanced Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2018
    Messages:
    58
    Country:
    United States
    For someone arguing about facts, that's an extremely vitriolic and biased claim. I would like to know when anyone claimed Atmosphère meets the formal definition of "custom firmware" for "props".

    NVIDIA do considers the code running on BPMP to be "firmware", regardless of the boot media (which can in fact be the USB for example). That same code is entirely re-implemented on Atmosphère as well.

    I believe this user's post is a good approximation to the term "firmware":
    https://superuser.com/a/1482086

    It also acknowledges how different development environments interpret the word differently and how there is no clear definition of "firmware".

    That's not true. "CFW" has been used to describe exploit chains in other scenes that resulted in content being streamed off of other media (SD) than the original boot media (NAND). Even if the term has been used incorrectly, people didn't assume it meant "coldboot".

    I couldn't find any formal references to "custom firmware" meaning this either.
     
  14. Excalibur007

    Excalibur007 Advanced Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2015
    Messages:
    82
    Country:
    United States
    Still looking for an answer to these questions:
    - Does updating with ChoidujourNX after booting into Atmosphere update the cart slot, or is it still protected from the boot to Atmosphere?
    - Is the above plan for getting my game updates and redeeming download content a bad idea? Is there a better way?
     
  15. Muxi

    Muxi GBAtemp Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    455
    Country:
    Germany
    Which settings have to be changed so that the cheats in the atmosphere/contents folder are not automatically activated? Under ATM 0.9.4 this was still possible with this entry:

    dmnt_cheats_enabled_by_default = u8!0x0

    However, this does not work under ATM 0.10.1 anymore. I've already removed this character ";" from the corresponding line of system_settings.ini and changed the entry as shown above, but it doesn't seem to work.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  16. SciresM

    SciresM Developer
    Developer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    821
    Country:
    United States
    Config was moved to /atmosphere/config in 0.10.0, per the changelog.
     
    peteruk, PHiLiPZ and Muxi like this.
  17. Muxi

    Muxi GBAtemp Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    455
    Country:
    Germany
    Thanks! Now it works! I misunderstood. I'm sorry.
     
  18. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,699
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Other than the post where I claimed it?

    It's a biased claim that Atmosphere is CFW, none of the supporting arguments holds any water. If you look back to the scene where the CFW term started, then it's clear that Atmosphere doesn't meet the definition.

    The Nintendo scene has been really lax with naming, they saw the term CFW used in other scenes and wanted a piece of it. It's an echo chamber that just keeps going.

    Xbox scene only used CFW to describe hacked firmware you flash to your drive, ps3 & vita scene differentiates between cfw & jailbreak.

    https://enso.henkaku.xyz/

    Custom firmware for PS Vita
    HENkaku Ensō is the evolution of the HENkaku jailbreak that opened the PS Vita and PSTV to a new universe of customization and user created content. Install it once and your Vita will be permanently hacked--no need to apply it after each reboot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  19. _hexkyz_

    _hexkyz_ Advanced Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2018
    Messages:
    58
    Country:
    United States
    Naturally. The point being that you can't know if a developer is misusing the term "CFW" on purpose.

    But the term "jailbreak" suffered from the exact same issue. Early on those scenes people had exhaustive debates with compelling arguments on both sides on whether "jailbreak" could/should be applicable to video game consoles since it originated and was heavily tied to the iOS scene. As a result, for a good time it was generally frowned upon the usage of "jailbreak" in console scenes.
    People began accepting it widely due to media coverage and the more niche circles began accepting it after developers from the iOS scene started using it more and more in console scenes (e.g.: PS4).

    Terms like "CFW" and "jailbreak" simply don't have a well defined meaning. "Firmware" is a bit more rigorous but even then there's debate on it, so it all boils down to how you derive "custom firmware" from "firmware" and taking that into account both opinions are equally valid.
     
    peteruk and ghjfdtg like this.
  20. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    3,699
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Occam's razor.

    I disagree, but if that is what you think then why choose to use CFW at all then? If not just because it sounds better? Words are only helpful if they convey meaning.

    Why not something like Altered System Software?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
Draft saved Draft deleted
Loading...

Hide similar threads Similar threads with keywords - development, Atmosphere, Firmware